ineedanewhandle
New Member
I love that signTDO Hall of Fame:
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In other words, you don't have an explanation. But you know nobody in management is responsible (presumably because its far more likely that the guests themselves created a completely fictional sinkhole out of thin air).
Yes, we know. Disney management never lies. They also never rig guest surveys to get the responses they want (I bet you think guests are clamoring for more outside vendor shopping and dining too). And they most certainly never make small incremental cutbacks on an area in order to create guest dissatisfaction, ultimately justifying their closing it down and replacing it with something "bold and fresh" (and apparently non-existent).
wizards8507
Active Member
Ok nobody is perfect, but if you're going to accuse TDO of dishonesty there needs to be some valid logic behind it. Conceding that the main concern of TDO is the "bottom line," what sense would it make that they would "rig" surveys to say what they want? Going against the wants of consumers is going in the opposite direction of profit.
jakeman
Well-Known Member
It's pretty clear now you aren't reading my post.In other words, you don't have an explanation. But you know nobody in management is responsible (presumably because its far more likely that the guests themselves created a completely fictional sinkhole out of thin air).
Yes, we know. Disney management never lies. They also never rig guest surveys to get the responses they want (I bet you think guests are clamoring for more outside vendor shopping and dining too). And they most certainly never make small incremental cutbacks on an area in order to create guest dissatisfaction, ultimately justifying their closing it down and replacing it with something "bold and fresh" (and apparently non-existent).
You're apparently just nerdrage face smashing responses into your keyboard.
So good luck with that.
No, not necessarily. Disney does things short-sighted all the time, at the expense of the consumer, chasing short-term dollars (over thinking long term). The most obvious example would be "Disney Parks" merchandise. No guest in the Magic Kingdom prefers buying a "Disney Parks" sweatshirt over a "Walt Disney World Resort" sweatshirt, yet Disney will go with the former whenever it can get away with it because it's slightly more profitable.
Less guest satisfaction, but more Disney profit. In the short term, it makes some business sense. But add up enough of these "less guest satisfaction" circumstances over time and in the long term you will lose money.
wizards8507
Active Member
I've never seen a shortage of "Walt Disney World" merch. If it costs a few extra dollars to generate the same margins as "Disney Parks," that decision is up to the guests.
I find it astonishing that the people here know more about long-term strategic planning than WDW executives. Say what you want about whether YOU like certain decisions, but is everyone here so arrogant that they really think they know what's best for TDO?
This thread has everything to do with whether or not Disney management lies. It closed Pleasure Island while simultaneously claiming they had this "bold new vision" that they were about to move forward with. Only no "bold new vision" ever materialized. There is one of two likely reasons:
1. They thought 3rd party vendors would jump at the opportunity to lease the land,
2. They really didn't care what happened there as long as they got the clubs closed, or
3. Both.
I believe they were solidly concerned with #2 and hoping for the best with #1. But they never said #2. They never mentioned #2. I believe they were dishonest.
This thread applies to Horizons for the same reason, imo. And it's the reason why Kodak still catches all the blame for Figment being removed from JII. And it's the reason we hear whispers that attraction-specific merchandise doesn't sell. And it's the reason we're told the top guest concern at the Magic Kingdom was a shorter line for Dumbo. And it's the reason we're told the top guest concern at WDW is more shopping (yes, everyone knows the average Disney guest prefers more shopping to a new E-ticket).
In my opinion, they have used up the goodwill it built from 1955-1994 and are no longer trustworthy. And that is why it is all relevant to this thread. If you don't like my opinion, feel free to skip right over my posts. Either way, it's not going turn back time and make drunk driving a significant issue at Pleasure Island circa 1991. Similarly, it's not going to make guests prefer 3rd party vendors at Downtown Disney/Pleasure Island circa 2009 (regardless of what "guest surveys" say). And it also doesn't make a ghost town preferable to a flourishing, admission ticket required, Pleasure Island where every night is New Years Eve.
I know this ... I didn't waste a billion and a half dollars on DCA, so maybe Disney's not infallible. I also didn't contractually obligate Disney to build 18,000 hotel rooms at EuroDisney; a park that's currently over $2 billion in debt. Am I perfect? No. Do I know everything? Certainly not. But I'm also not going to pretend current Disney management is perfect (or even honest) because it offends the delicate sensibilities of a portion of fans.
If you want to say, "Hey, I disagree with you," or "I don't really think there's much evidence for your point of view," that's fine. We can agree to disagree. But to be "astonished" that there are people who think there is reason to believe management does one thing and says another, or that people exist who think Disney has made business mistakes of all shapes and sizes (from big - like DCA's original conception, to small - Magic Carpets of Aladdin being shoehorned into the middle of Adventureland) seems a little naive.
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
Isn't it a bit early in the game to call the $1.2 billion spent on DCA a waste? The expansion is only halfway complete and if anything the expansion has already boosted attendance at the park.
I was referring to the initial DCA cost, not the expansion. Personally, I think the expansion plans (at least a large portion) are a mistake, and a case of throwing good money after bad. But I was specifically speaking about the $1.5 billion they spent to build the first park (as designed) as a failure and "waste" - they rushed it and built it on the cheap with too few attractions and it has severely and predictably underperformed since the day it opened.
jt04
Well-Known Member
Grandiose claims? :shrug:
I never made any grandiose claims. I simply recall a controversy during PI's early days and wondered about why those incidents are unavailable on the internet. Could be they don't archive that far back. Plus I am quite sure there are some regular posters who remember exactly what I'm talking about and remain utterly silent on the matter. I suspect there is plenty of people that want PI to come back who don't want anyone to remember those details for obvious reasons.
Master Gracey
Well-Known Member
The current management of the Walt Disney Co. is far from infallible. Even Walt himself had made a mistake from time to time, however, he was not too proud to admit his failures and would then take the necessary steps to fix the problem.
The main problem with the current management is that they have made one metric buttload of mistakes in the past few years alone, but are too proud to admit their failures and return the attractions and services that the public truely wants.
You are quite correct, their is an overabundance of generalized "Disney Parks" merchandise. I hope that among the many lessons Disney should be learning from the Wizarding World of Harry Potter, one of them is that tourists want theme specific merchandise. There has not been a day when there hasn't been at least a 45 minute wait just to get into their stores. For those who argue that the stores were built too small, may I retort that, people are still waiting in said line to spend money anyway!
DisneyNut2007
Active Member
How dare you agree with Krack the crack-head, Master! Just for that, as punishment for your stupidity, you have now joined Krack and countless others on my ever-increasing ignore list!
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
Like, who cares? Let's all concede that in the early 90's some bad, terrible things happened and it was all because of Pleasure Island. They were so bad that Disney knew that it needed to get out of the night club business. And so they did....16 years later.
I agree. I think the argument here is lame either way. Most people reading this thread want something done out at Pleasure Island. Some want the clubs back and many just want something. But I think we all agree that the current status is a disaster.
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
As it has been stated here earlier, that is not the reason Pleasure Island (in its original incarnation) closed.
Mouse Detective
Well-Known Member
SeaCastle
Well-Known Member
I didn't understand that was sarcasm. My mistake. :wave:
wizards8507
Active Member
I guess I'm the only one who feels this way but I'll go ahead and say it. I'm glad that Pleasure Island is no more. The Disney brand represents something very specific and to me, anything that falls outside those values should be kept out of the World.
Go ahead, gut me.
Go ahead, gut me.
disneyrcks
Well-Known Member
I have to admit the only I time I went to PI was in 99 when I was 17.....It seemed like a blast and I was very disappointed that I was not able to visit it when I became 21 and older. However I can understand how people could be turned off by the excessive drinking that went on.....I just wish that they would do something there...My fiance took me to (the new) PI and we went semi late night to the irish restaurant that was there (and we had fun ) but it felt just like pubs at home. Drinking at Epcot is more fun lol (more expensive but we love our around the world). I think they could come up with something that offers adult beverages and fun but in a more controlled setting with other nightime fun options (not just boozing and getting crazy). IMO there is enough shopping at DTD and Disney as a whole....I can shop anywhere, when I go to Disney it is for a unique, memorable and awesome vacation.
) but it felt just like pubs at home. Drinking at Epcot is more fun lol (more expensive but we love our around the world). I think they could come up with something that offers adult beverages and fun but in a more controlled setting with other nightime fun options (not just boozing and getting crazy). IMO there is enough shopping at DTD and Disney as a whole....I can shop anywhere, when I go to Disney it is for a unique, memorable and awesome vacation.