unkadug
Follower of "Saget"The Cult
Howe much longer must we wait for these announcements? It's already been two years.
Will this be the announcement that they made a grievous error in shutting down the clubs?
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Howe much longer must we wait for these announcements? It's already been two years.
Will this be the announcement that they made a grievous error in shutting down the clubs?
jakeman
Well-Known Member
In this particular case though jt, closing the clubs was not a good thing and while it was intentional the facts don't led to the conclusion that it was for the greater good.
It alienated a section of consumers that didn't need to be alienated.
Instead of reinvesting in the clubs and reexamining how nightlife was evolving they gambled that they could easily fill the space with third party vendors.
That failed, mainly due to the economy, and now we are stuck with a hole that stretches quite literally from Disney Quest to Paradiso 37.
There isn't a conspiracy or an intentional misfeeding of information. Disney took a gamble on the easy way out and it failed, big time.
PI is a mess because someone in Disney management mandated that it be opened to the general public (rather than requiring a ticket). At that point, parents began dropping their kids off and turning PI into their local shopping mall (substituting as a baby sitter). Prior to this change, PI was a place that was enjoyed by adults (primarily because it was one of the best place on property to escape children).
I can only guess that management felt it was either missing out on the "family" dollar or the "local" dollar by charging a fee at the gate. Whatever the reason, when the gates became open to everyone, the teenagers came in and the adults (looking to get away from the teenagers) left. If there were more than 4 brain cells in the entirety of the management at the time, someone would have noticed ... hmm, all the kids that will come in won't be able to spend money anyway (can't buy alcohol) and the adults that they will drive away will severely cut into the bottom line.
Slowly but surely, management went about justifying cut after cut after cut to the entertainment offerings until the place became a relative ghost town. At this point, management could justify closing the whole place down and letting outside vendors come in and lease the land. More money (in the short term) for Disney (with minimal risk), but far less of a unique experience for the guest and, over time, a lessening of the Disney brand name.
Either way, management didn't understand why original Pleasure Island flourished and simply decided it was going to do something else. And they did and it didn't work. And rather than say "Hey, we screwed up and that's why we have less revenue" they had to invent excuses (other than themselves) for why PI wasn't working anymore. This had nothing to do with unavoidable "societal changes" - adult still like to go to clubs, they still like to drink and they still like to have fun with other adults. It is the same now as it was in 1989 when the place opened. Plain and simple, this was a failure of management. And that is why we got a whisper-campaign about teenage gangs and drunks scaring away families (who were never going to PI in the first place) and drunk driving.
Keep believing this; it doesn't make it true. Let me know when you find all the articles about drunk driving at Pleasure Island. The ghost town is far preferable and more successful than Pleasure Island circa 1994.
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
Don't tell anyone but.... I heard from a friend of mine who heard from a bus driver who is the father of a girl who is friends with someone who was cursed by Harry Potter over at Wizarding World that... ready for this??? Disney is set to announce in two weeks that... they have nothing new to announce about DTD... but shhhhh current rumor: to beat IOA and WWoHP.. Disney is turning Pleasure Island into The Drunken World of Larry the Lush..... No word on the next great kiddie ride... or how the princesses, fairies and Stitch wil play into it... Somehow I see Stitch being the culprit who spiked all the Soda which was bought by the men for the Princesses, only to get the princesses drunk... Causing them to see green fairies... As witnessed by this exclusive WDI only picture:
Inside Club 626
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
You never speak in specifics, probably so you can claim to never be wrong. You first hid behind the moderators not wanting the topic brought up and then claimed that the relevant information had yet to be made easily accessible online and has probably been deliberately obscured.
Where else, besides from jt04 and teevtee, have you heard this story about drunk driving? Even jt04 said he was speaking about 1989-1991.Keep believing this; it doesn't make it true. Let me know when you find all the articles about drunk driving at Pleasure Island. The ghost town is far preferable and more successful than Pleasure Island circa 1994.
I think you misunderstood what I was saying. There are no "drunk driving" stories. I freely admit they mostly made the drunk driving stuff up out of thin air, although from time to time it has showed up on message boards and fan sites as an excuse - for example:
http://www.mouseplanet.com/7158/Downtown_Disney_Dilemma
However, the "roaming gangs of teenagers" and "general drunken and rowdy (unDisneylike) behavior" claims have been around forever (since the island was made free to the public) as excuses to close up Pleasure Island.
wizards8507
Active Member
Not taking sides because I really don't have a horse in this race, but at what point does an "excuse" become a "reason"? When YOU think it's valid?
As soon as the excuse and/or reason becomes anything other than "we're making less money than we think we could make" - because at WDW, money talks and the rest walks.
And when management made the epic mistake of making admission free to the public, the adults left, alcohol sales dropped off and the money dried up. Any other reason/excuse for closing the island is superfluous.
wizards8507
Active Member
How would you run a business? Just curious. I know profit is evil and all but the demonization of the dollar in these (and other) Disney boards is phenomenal.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
I do not see how that article advocated closing the clubs. It just seemed to analyze the floundering Pleasure Island in its last years.
Disney seriously screwed up with its closure of the clubs. The "bold new vision" was the hope that third party operators would be willing to sign leases for the newly vacated spaces. A prudent businessman would have at least waited until some deals were in place (I will agree that closing the clubs one-by-one would have been a much more difficult feat with the admission structure). They grossly over estimated the desirability and perceived value of Downtown Disney. All signs of mismanagement if you ask me.
wizards8507
Active Member
That's a fair assessment. I don't mind the criticism along the lines of "That was a stupid move. They made poor estimates/forecasts in their decision making process." The fact that they failed in their efforts to maximize profit is valid for criticism, but people tend to be appalled that they were even pursuing profitable endeavors in the first place.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
But they did not even pursue profitable endeavors, they pursued wishful thinking, supposedly at the behest of a third party design firm. It exemplifies the management culture of thinking Disney can easily sell less for more. I tend to see the "looking for a quick buck" mentality to be the focus of criticism, instead of profit derived from offering a thoughtful and quality product.
wizards8507
Active Member
But if (in general) the average consumer keeps falling for it, can you blame them?
It doesn't. The article claimed drunk driving was an issue that had Disney concerned. You asked where that had been claimed anywhere other than the fiction in this thread.
I don't have any issue with Disney running a business to maximize profit. My complaint is the company's choices to achieve this goal. Specifically, I think they are extremely short-sighted (since 1994ish) and make decisions to squeeze out a few extra dollars now that will significantly negatively affect their profit in the long term. Opening Pleasure Island up to kids (for free with no parental supervision) was one of these mistakes, imo - it killed that area in about a decade (to the point where it is now permanently closed).
In the long term? Yes, absolutely - because the "average consumer" is fickle and sways with whatever is trendy at the moment. If you pursue this average consumer to the detriment of your brand name and devoted fan base, in the long term it will screw you. And they don't always "fall for it" either. There's a reason why Disney is dumping so much cash into DCA right now; they took guests for granted and it cost them a bundle.
wizards8507
Active Member
I agree with your hopes for the future but I'm not optimistic that consumers will force a change in behavior.
jt04
Well-Known Member
For those challanging me on the accidents occuring due to drunk drivers leaving PI in the early days, well I specifically remember the controversy and actual deaths occuring. However, if the articles were never archived or were purged, it stands that it is impossible to prove. Since we are taking about events that were around 20 years ago my memory is not perfect but I am positive it was an issue. The mouseplanet article indicates Disney employees were checking people on the way to the parking lot. This was a reaction to the problem by Disney. Guaranteed.
And I also think that some of our resident historians silence indicates there is some deeper reason there seems to be an information blackout. Perhaps there is ongoing litigation. I don't know :veryconfu
And I also think that some of our resident historians silence indicates there is some deeper reason there seems to be an information blackout. Perhaps there is ongoing litigation. I don't know :veryconfu
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Accident caused by drunk drivers leaving Pleasure Island probably did happen. The big question is if it ever because a frequent enough occurrence that it became a local issue.
How is that a logical conclusion? How is it not possible that Disney was not being proactive? I bet Universal has their security check for sobriety, does that mean CityWalk was the source of a series of drunk driving incidents?
Why do you not message some with whom you would yield to their authority and ask? A court would not have power to remove these incidents from history.
Mr. Morrow
New Member
So what you are saying is you have absolutely no proof of this?
Captain Chaos
Well-Known Member
You would be hard pressed to find articles from 20 years ago LOL... And I have no knowledge or proof to back JT up or to prove him wrong... And I won't pretend to know like some others on here do.... Everyone has their own opinion as to why PI is now shut down... But the fact remains and will not change.. PLEASURE ISLAND IS CLOSED AND REMAINS A GHOST TOWN....