MK Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[TrainsOfDisney]

There are futuristic rocks used in Tomorrowland (aka discovery land) in Paris. While I would personally like to see wreck it Ralph go to the speedway area and cover the theming of both Tomorrowland and Fantasyland - cars could work as well.

The speedway at MK is not charming like Anaheim and Paris - a cars themed replacement (perhaps an autopia style AND a thrill ride) would make lots of sense in that space.

 

[Raineman]

There are futuristic rocks used in Tomorrowland (aka discovery land) in Paris. While I would personally like to see wreck it Ralph go to the speedway area and cover the theming of both Tomorrowland and Fantasyland - cars could work as well.

The speedway at MK is not charming like Anaheim and Paris - a cars themed replacement (perhaps an autopia style AND a thrill ride) would make lots of sense in that space.

I'm sure they could maybe scale back the amount of rockwork in the attraction to make it blend in better, or use trees/vegetation around the outside of the attraction to hide the rockwork.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

Budgets at Disney are not “little money”.

Well obviously they're not "little", but little to what they could be. It's relative. It's not secret budgets get cut.

I don't think anyone saying anything bad is inherently biased or unwilling to accept change, but I do think some of the arguments against this decision are a little bit overly stubborn. I think it's valid to wish they found a way to do this while keeping the river, but the people who're completely against any sort of overhaul or change to Frontierland period, whether it be this or something else, I do think are being ridiculous and are completely unable to get over their own biases to see that something needs to change.

As for complete trust...well I mean I don't have complete trust because I don't have complete trust in any mega entertainment corporation to do anything. Their theme park products, movies, or whatever else can disappoint me and have disappointed me in the past. That said, I can count the new attractions and experiences they've added to the parks in the last few years that let me down on just a few fingers so I have more reason to be optimistic than pessimistic at the moment. I've greatly enjoyed most (not all by ANY means) of what they've done recently.

I'm personally not against changes as long as they make sense and they're good (some exceptions I'm sure could be made, if they got rid of the Country Bears I'd be upset no matter what replaced it), and in the case of Cars, I just don't have a lot of hope that it'll come out both as intended and as something that'll fit. Frontierland doesn't need to be the same as it was opening day, but everything in the land has to at least make some sort of sense with the theme.
As for recent additions and attractions, I'm pretty mixed. I like CBMJ and Tiana's (when Tiana's is working), and Cosmic Rewind is fun (although it doesn't fit Epcot at all), but I'm not huge on just cloning stuff from other parks without changing much (Ratatouille is nearly identical) and the closure of MuppetVision has just put such a sour taste in my mouth.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well obviously they're not "little", but little to what they could be. It's relative. It's not secret budgets get cut.

For the past many years it’s more been a lie that budgets get cut. Scope gets reduced to stay on budget. Money gets moved from one aspect of a project to another. Things like Rocket Rods having its budget drastically reduced after getting the green light really hasn’t happened since the early 2000s. Sticking to approved budgets as a minimum has generally been the case. The size of budgets has also increased significantly. There are many problems with Disney’s projects but lack of money is not one of them.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

For the past many years it’s more been a lie that budgets get cut. Scope gets reduced to stay on budget. Money gets moved from one aspect of a project to another. Things like Rocket Rods having its budget drastically reduced after getting the green light really hasn’t happened since the early 2000s. Sticking to approved budgets as a minimum has generally been the case. The size of budgets has also increased significantly. There are many problems with Disney’s projects but lack of money is not one of them.

Well, I may be wrong about budgets being reduced, but if they're reducing the scope of projects then the outcome is the same. They need to give these Imagineers larger budgets from the start to account for their plans or not announce plans so early that they'll end up being reduced. If the public doesn't know what was cut then it doesn't look as bad.

 

[MrPromey]

That has more to do with giving fans access to concept material than anything else. Thats something Disney needs to dial back.

If you had access to early concept material to fan favorites built decades ago you would see they also went through numerous "downgrades" before completion.

You mean like the access to concept material for Cars?

Like I said, over-promising and under-delivering.

 

[MrPromey]

Well, I may be wrong about budgets being reduced, but if they're reducing the scope of projects then the outcome is the same. They need to give these Imagineers larger budgets from the start to account for their plans or not announce plans so early that they'll end up being reduced. If the public doesn't know what was cut then it doesn't look as bad.

They really just need to get better at projecting costs so they design more within the scope of reality from the start.

A more realistic approach up front might even result in them making better decisions on initial design up front so they rethink costly options that might not add as much to the experience, leaving more to go towards the things that would.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Well, I may be wrong about budgets being reduced, but if they're reducing the scope of projects then the outcome is the same. They need to give these Imagineers larger budgets from the start to account for their plans or not announce plans so early that they'll end up being reduced. If the public doesn't know what was cut then it doesn't look as bad.

The solution to spending too much on something is not to just spend more money.

 

[lazyboy97o]

They really just need to get better at projecting costs so they design more within the scope of reality from the start.

A more realistic approach up front might even result in them making better decisions on initial design up front so they rethink costly options that might not add as much to the experience, leaving more to go towards the things that would.

It’s not just an issue of estimating. It’s the entire decision making process and bureaucracy. An estimate is worthless if someone can poke their head in at the eleventh hour and demand change. Nor does a better estimate deal with having meetings to plan meetings to plan meetings to plan meetings where nothing gets decided because it has to be kicked to others who will have their own meetings and not want to make a decision less they risk being wrong.

 

[Orange is the new Red]

You mean like the access to concept material for Cars?

Like I said, over-promising and under-delivering.

You hear what you want. lol!!!
Why even engage with people. ridiculous.
The spin machine is in overdrive here.

 

[MrPromey]

You hear what you want. lol!!!
Why even engage with people. ridiculous.
The spin machine is in overdrive here.

The spin was what was the rewording of my original statement.

Yes, sharing the concept art is part of the problem. They're selling that reveal at D23.

Either way, they're in control. They are the ones setting the expectations. They are the ones failing to live up to them.

It isn't like this is all some unfortunate accident.

How about you just go back to using little laugh reactions to everyone you don't agree with?

 

[AidenRodriguez731]

Is Josh the bad guy or is it Jeff Vahle? I've heard various rumors (lots of salt and all that) that Josh is only one stopping the absolute worst impulses of upper management regarding greed/horrible ideas, and I've heard other rumors that Josh is the bad guy. It's likely a combination of the both of them but I've always wondered who is the real bad guy behind the scenes.

The real answer is always in the middle. He's just a human, I'm sure he tries his best to balance upper management and the creatives but he's still in a sort of middle management position and doesn't have total "free reign". Everything the parks do has to be justified to the shareholders, the upper management, and technically the fans/gen public.

 

[Charlie The Chatbox Ghost]

The solution to spending too much on something is not to just spend more money.

The issue isn't spending too much, the issue is not budgeting properly. If budgets aren't being cut but projects are being scoped down, it's because the Imagineers aren't being given the amount of money they need or are being allowed to go over budget, either way resulting in cuts to projects. As @WaltWiz1901 has pointed out, budgeting in the US parks has been very messy compared to overseas. Disney is somehow spending more than the projects would actually cost if budgeted well. WaltWiz compares Pooh's Hunny Hunt in Tokyo (the first ever trackless dark ride) to DCA's Little Mermaid ride (a very basic and cheap-looking omnimover dark ride). Guess which one cost more?

 

[lazyboy97o]

The issue isn't spending too much, the issue is not budgeting properly. If budgets aren't being cut but projects are being scoped down, it's because the Imagineers aren't being given the amount of money they need or are being allowed to go over budget, either way resulting in cuts to projects. As @WaltWiz1901 has pointed out, budgeting in the US parks has been very messy compared to overseas. Disney is somehow spending more than the projects would actually cost if budgeted well. WaltWiz compares Pooh's Hunny Hunt in Tokyo (the first ever trackless dark ride) to DCA's Little Mermaid ride (a very basic and cheap-looking omnimover dark ride). Guess which one cost more?

The issue is very much spending too much. You’re also conflating budgeting, estimating and project management.

That post was highlighting cost escalation. I don’t need to guess which one cost more, I know. Walt Disney Imagineering is still running the design show overseas. They’re still the ones doing the estimating that becomes an approved project budget. They’re still in charge of project management. They couldn’t build Pooh’s Hunny Hunt today for that price after adjusting for inflation.

Part of the reason the first phase of design is called Blue Sky is because “the sky is the limit” and ideas are unbounded. Even outside of Disney and themed entertainment, scope reduction isn’t unusual. It’s a pretty common part of the process. The issue is how and why you’re doing it.

 

[WaltWiz1901]

The off roading Cars attraction might have been fine in the Speedway location...creating a transition between Fantasyland and Tomorrowland... but in Frontierland, Talking Cars really dont work...

There are futuristic rocks used in Tomorrowland (aka discovery land) in Paris. While I would personally like to see wreck it Ralph go to the speedway area and cover the theming of both Tomorrowland and Fantasyland - cars could work as well.

The speedway at MK is not charming like Anaheim and Paris - a cars themed replacement (perhaps an autopia style AND a thrill ride) would make lots of sense in that space.

except...what land would it fall under? Cars in Fantasyland and Cars in Tomorrowland are both bizarre fits, arguably even moreso than Cars in Frontierland

if this had to go through at all, my personal pick for a location would be in Hollywood Studios, as their Frontierland analog. at least not much of value would be lost if they theoretically had to build into existing guest space

 

[Agent H]

IMO cars shouldn’t go in Frontierland or Tomorrowland.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Cars in Fantasyland and Cars in Tomorrowland are both bizarre fits, arguably even moreso than Cars in Frontierland

What is your reasoning for this?

Tomorrowland has always had cars (not the ip) present. Frontierland never has with the new exception being the vintage car at Tiana’s.

 

[Agent H]

Tomorrowland has always had cars (not the ip) present.

Yes and it sucks.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Yes and it sucks.

Only at MK. The autopia in Anaheim and Paris are quite charming.

 

[Agent H]

Only at MK. The autopia in Anaheim and Paris are quite charming.

Agreed. Make them electric and they can stay forever.