News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

Schmidt

Well-Known Member
No no,...Epic is not going to "kill" MK. I think MK is reasonably or somewhat bulletproof. I think Epic will "hurt" DAK, DHS and Epcot. Why?

In order to get into Epic Universe, Universal is rumored to be forcing people to buy tickets to ALL THREE Universal parks at once. This means that if Epic gets a gazillion people in that park, those same gazillion people MUST go to Universal and Islands too....This "forces" those parks to ALSO have similar Epic Universe HIGH attendance numbers. (Tons of City Walk spending too)

What are the two limits that every vacation has? Time & money! Universal is going to STEAL a minimum of THREE days from everybody's vacation. They will also steal THREE days of your vacation spending budget too.

Instead of staying in Disney's "bubble" and burning an extra day or two at Universal? The model is now reversed....people will stay in the Universal bubble and burn the extra day or two at Disney. Yep...MK is a given but the "other" three Disney parks? How much leftover days or spending money will go to those parks?

Add to the fact that Disney has almost nothing new in 2025 to attract people? Yeah,...Universal is going to steal MUCH more time and money out of people's allotment than it normally does. Something has to give and I think it's Disney's "other" three parks that take the punch.

I live close to Orlando and I strongly suspect that my entire 2025 Disney budget will be spent in Universal for the year over multiple weekends. I let my Disney annual pass expire this year (first time EVER since 1998) and It's ALL going to Tokyo Disney in Nov. It's hard for me to believe but my entire 2025 Disney budget is going to Universal. There is just no reason for me to go to. I'm paying to ride Splash Mountain in Tokyo this year. Maybe I'll see Tiana's in 2026?

MK will basically be OK,...it's their other three parks that WILL ABSOLUTEY suffer. (Disney hotels revenue WILL ABSOLUTELY suffer too. I think Universal Hotels will steal a good chunk of it)

For the first time ever,...Universal will now have its own three day park/hotel "bubble" too.
You are oversimplifying. First of all lots of people are double fisting the Universal koolaid. I’ve been the parks this summer. To each is own but for me I prefer Disney.

I will say this that no one is mentioning. Adding Cars, and villains makes MK a 2 day park. With that strategy you will never leave Magic Kingdom. Actually very smart!
 

Schmidt

Well-Known Member
No no,...Epic is not going to "kill" MK. I think MK is reasonably or somewhat bulletproof. I think Epic will "hurt" DAK, DHS and Epcot. Why?

In order to get into Epic Universe, Universal is rumored to be forcing people to buy tickets to ALL THREE Universal parks at once. This means that if Epic gets a gazillion people in that park, those same gazillion people MUST go to Universal and Islands too....This "forces" those parks to ALSO have similar Epic Universe HIGH attendance numbers. (Tons of City Walk spending too)

What are the two limits that every vacation has? Time & money! Universal is going to STEAL a minimum of THREE days from everybody's vacation. They will also steal THREE days of your vacation spending budget too.

Instead of staying in Disney's "bubble" and burning an extra day or two at Universal? The model is now reversed....people will stay in the Universal bubble and burn the extra day or two at Disney. Yep...MK is a given but the "other" three Disney parks? How much leftover days or spending money will go to those parks?

Add to the fact that Disney has almost nothing new in 2025 to attract people? Yeah,...Universal is going to steal MUCH more time and money out of people's allotment than it normally does. Something has to give and I think it's Disney's "other" three parks that take the punch.

I live close to Orlando and I strongly suspect that my entire 2025 Disney budget will be spent in Universal for the year over multiple weekends. I let my Disney annual pass expire this year (first time EVER since 1998) and It's ALL going to Tokyo Disney in Nov. It's hard for me to believe but my entire 2025 Disney budget is going to Universal. There is just no reason for me to go to. I'm paying to ride Splash Mountain in Tokyo this year. Maybe I'll see Tiana's in 2026?

MK will basically be OK,...it's their other three parks that WILL ABSOLUTEY suffer. (Disney hotels revenue WILL ABSOLUTELY suffer too. I think Universal Hotels will steal a good chunk of it)

For the first time ever,...Universal will now have it's own three day park/hotel "bubble" too.
Nah.. Magic Kingdom is about to become a 2 day park. Don’t be so ready to give Universal the keys to kingdom. You should try being hyper critical with Univeral as well. When you do you will realize you are bringing a lot of bias to this discussion.
 

phillip9698

Well-Known Member
Respectfully I disagree. There is enough area to expand and provide more capacity, not only by building a new attraction that will attract more people but by providing more area for people to explore. As previously pointed out in this thread, there is a ton of places that could be repurposed that are within the confines of the park that are underutilized or not used for guest facing attractions at all. We havent ever seen new attractions in the expansion pads because other attractions were built in existing spaces within the parks. I simply dont believe the two concepts are related. Marie

Pretty much every proposal people have suggested here uses more expansion pad space than what Disney is planning by removing the river. Most of them use all the space back there. They are absolutely related.

If people were interested in exploring TSI they had the last 20 years to prove so. They didn’t.
 

Architectural Guinea Pig

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
Pretty much every proposal people have suggested here uses more expansion pad space than what Disney is planning by removing the river. Most of them use all the space back there. They are absolutely related.

If people were interested in exploring TSI they had the last 20 years to prove so. They didn’t.
As people say, you only appreciate what you have until it's gone. TSI/RoA is a perfect example of this.
 

phillip9698

Well-Known Member
IMO Disney needs to dump the Frontierland name at every park other than Disneyland. Keep the spirit of what Walt planned as intact as possible at Disneyland.

Everywhere else though, dump it. The Asian parks already realized this folly and changed the name, the MK needs to as well. Unlike Adventureland, Tomorrowland, and Fantasyland, Frontierland severely limits the themes of attractions that would holistically fit in the area. The other lands don’t have a time period attached to them like Frontierland does.

The frontier is dead and has been with kids for 50 years. The people it’ brings feelings of nostalgia to are no longer walking this earth, or are having a difficult time walking period. Change it to something generic western and you can keep the old time saloon theming but you can also have more modern takes with Cars or even the Pacific Northwest.
 
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bwr827

Well-Known Member
IMO Disney needs to dump the Frontierland name at every park other than Disneyland. Keep the spirit of what Walt planned as intact as possible at Disneyland.

Everywhere else though, dump it. The Asian parks already realized this folly and changed the name, the MK needs to as well. Unlike Adventureland, Tomorrowland, and Fantasyland, Frontierland severely limits the themes of attractions that would holistically fit in the area. The other lands don’t have a time period attached to them like Frontierland does.

The frontier is dead and has been with kids for 50 years. The people it’s brings feelings of nostalgia to are no longer walking this earth, or are having a difficult time walking period. Change it to something generic western and you can keep the old time saloon theming but you can also have more modern takes with Cars or even the Pacific Northwest.
Western Adventure with a splash of the bayou. Just keep Frontier.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
Nah.. Magic Kingdom is about to become a 2 day park. Don’t be so ready to give Universal the keys to kingdom. You should try being hyper critical with Univeral as well. When you do you will realize you are bringing a lot of bias to this discussion.
MK is "about to" become a 2 day park???

This cars attraction will not be finished for 5 years,....at best. We ALL know that Disney likes to spread it's construction costs over MULTIPLE years financial books in order to make each quarterly report look better. 5 Years is considered "turbo speed" for Disney. Villans will be 8-10 years away....IF...Disney has healthy strong finances in a few years. If Disney's finances are "not" strong in 5 years?...Villian's might not ever get built.

So,...before 2030 we are likely to get a low cost parade, Big Thunder refresh with new FX and maybe a new castle projection show?....and a BIG,....HUGE,...UGLY,...construction bomb crater to walk around for 5+ years.

We know 2022 & 2023 was a strong pandemic "revenge" or "rebound" year. A TON of people left lock-down and traveled to the parks. Those people "blew their wad" so to speak and are in NO hurry to go back to Disney in 2024 and prolly 2025.

Disney has already warned investors in their quarterly and their Securities and Exchange Commission filings that THEY expect park attendance to continue to slide or be weak. No,..this is not "me" saying that...it's Burbank saying that.

I'll go back what we have always called the Disney Parks+Hotel "BUBBLE". Universal has never really had one before but I think we can now expect that they certainly DO now in 2025. People will stay in Universal's parks+hotel bubble and blow a lot of their cash there for a "forced", 3+ days and THEN head off to Magic Kingdom on maybe day 4 or 5.

I really hope Burbank lowers prices and stops forcing Genie+ so hard on E tickets and fake 7:00am 2 second lottery's. The frustration that causes next year will NOT fly well considering the brand new competition "bubble".

Epcot, Studios, Animal Kingdom WILL feel pain in 2025 from Universal.
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
MK is "about to" become a 2 day park???

This cars attraction will not be finished for 5 years,....at best. We ALL know that Disney likes to spread it's construction costs over MULTIPLE years financial books in order to make each quarterly report look better. 5 Years is considered "turbo speed" for Disney.

So,...before 2030 we are likely to get a low cost parade, Big Thunder refresh with new FX and maybe a new castle projection show?....and a BIG,....HUGE,...UGLY,...construction bomb crater to walk around for 5+ years.

We know 2022 & 2023 was a strong pandemic "revenge" or "rebound" year. A TON of people left lock-down and traveled to the parks. Those people "blew their wad" so to speak and are in NO hurry to go back to Disney in 2024 and prolly 2025.

Disney has already warned investors in their quarterly and their Securities and Exchange Commission filings that THEY expect park attendance to continue to slide or be weak. No,..this is not "me" saying that...it's Burbank saying that.

I'll go back what we have always called the Disney Parks+Hotel "BUBBLE". Universal has never really had one before but I think we can now expect that they certainly DO now in 2025. People will stay in Universal's parks+hotel bubble and blow a lot of their cash there for a "forced", 3+ days and THEN head off to Magic Kingdom on maybe day 4 or 5.

I really hope Burbank lowers prices and stops forcing Genie+ so hard on E tickets and fake 7:00am 2 second lottery's. The frustration that causes next year will NOT fly well considering the brand new competition "bubble".

Epcot, Studios, Animal Kingdom WILL feel pain in 2025 from Universal.
Outside of the two attractions impacted by COVID delays can you name a single attraction that took them 5 years to build?
 

Schmidt

Well-Known Member
MK is "about to" become a 2 day park???

This cars attraction will not be finished for 5 years,....at best. We ALL know that Disney likes to spread it's construction costs over MULTIPLE years financial books in order to make each quarterly report look better. 5 Years is considered "turbo speed" for Disney. Villans will be 8-10 years away....IF...Disney has healthy strong finances in a few years. If Disney's finances are "not" strong in 5 years?...Villian's might not ever get built.

So,...before 2030 we are likely to get a low cost parade, Big Thunder refresh with new FX and maybe a new castle projection show?....and a BIG,....HUGE,...UGLY,...construction bomb crater to walk around for 5+ years.

We know 2022 & 2023 was a strong pandemic "revenge" or "rebound" year. A TON of people left lock-down and traveled to the parks. Those people "blew their wad" so to speak and are in NO hurry to go back to Disney in 2024 and prolly 2025.

Disney has already warned investors in their quarterly and their Securities and Exchange Commission filings that THEY expect park attendance to continue to slide or be weak. No,..this is not "me" saying that...it's Burbank saying that.

I'll go back what we have always called the Disney Parks+Hotel "BUBBLE". Universal has never really had one before but I think we can now expect that they certainly DO now in 2025. People will stay in Universal's parks+hotel bubble and blow a lot of their cash there for a "forced", 3+ days and THEN head off to Magic Kingdom on maybe day 4 or 5.

I really hope Burbank lowers prices and stops forcing Genie+ so hard on E tickets and fake 7:00am 2 second lottery's. The frustration that causes next year will NOT fly well considering the brand new competition "bubble".

Epcot, Studios, Animal Kingdom WILL feel pain in 2025 from Universal.
I know what Pixie Dusters are but what are you. Dude I don’t know where to start so I won’t.

Enjoy
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
Outside of the two attractions impacted by COVID delays can you name a single attraction that took them 5 years to build?
Tron and Epcot city park & cafeteria?

The speed that they build is based on they financial books they are dealing with at that time. Disney dumped 17+ billion on Disney+, linear TV is suffering, Pixar, Lucasfilm and Marvel are all suffering badly. Disney still needs to blow another 6-15 billion...on top,...of the billions they have already given to Universal for HULU. Still waiting on arbitration for that.

Parks is been the ONLY life vest that Disney has had...thank God. But they have been vacuuming every penny out of the parks to float all the failing divisions of the company and balance their books. "If" parks begin to slow more? Where is Disney going to get the money to float the company,. AND...pay for all this new construction?

Disney has cut back on daily parks maintenance and operations budgets to help pay the bills!

Where will this money come from? More and more debt? Interest rates during COVID were super low. New debt today will happen under higher interest rates. How will they service that new debt? Parks CAN'T float the company if attendance is lower then average.

These promises from Burbank are NOT going to be easy to keep!
 

peter11435

Well-Known Member
Tron and Epcot city park & cafeteria?

The speed that they build is based on they financial books they are dealing with at that time. Disney dumped 17+ billion on Disney+, linear TV is suffering, Pixar, Lucasfilm and Marvel are all suffering badly. Disney still needs to blow another 6-15 billion...on top,...of the billions they have already given to Universal for HULU. Still waiting on arbitration for that.

Parks is been the ONLY life vest that Disney has had...thank God. But they have been vacuuming every penny out of the parks to float all the failing divisions of the company and balance their books. "If" parks begin to slow more? Where is Disney going to get the money to float the company,. AND...pay for all this new construction?

Disney has cut back on daily parks maintenance and operations budgets to help pay the bills!

Where will this money come from? More and more debt? Interest rates during COVID were super low. New debt today will happen under higher interest rates. How will they service that new debt? Parks CAN'T float the company if attendance is lower then average.

These promises from Burbank are NOT going to be easy to keep!
I said aside from Covid.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
I know what Pixie Dusters are but what are you. Dude I don’t know where to start so I won’t.

Enjoy
I have loved this company since I was 10 years old have have been a radicle super warrior for it my whole life. (I'm 55)

But I also try to be "realistic" as best I can. No,..I'm not a "Pixie Duster". I'm Just a realistic fan that is not happy with what Burbank has done the company I have always loved so deeply.

They have made HORRIBLE business decisions in recent years.
 

JSouth25

Well-Known Member
If ppl are on these boards - they are fans of the parks, and already have a better understanding of how theme parks operate & how expansion can occur. Making fun of people who understand what space is under-utilized, is a silly argument on a theme park forum.
I apologize if my post came off as rude. I understand talking about the logistics of this stuff, but I guess I’m just less focused on that stuff and moreso on the guest experience. I also think having things like the Rivers and Liberty Belle do so much for ambience more than anything, and that isn’t something that can be measured on a spreadsheet, and I’m worried that they’re not considering the atmosphere and magic that will be lost once it’s gone.
 

Cliff

Well-Known Member
They blew past that a long time ago. Pixar Pier cost more than that.
Disney has lost the ability to plan and estimate it's construction and projects costs. Everything they do now goes WAY,...WAY..over budget before it gets slashed HARD before they finally finish.

I don't know how much the budget was for the new Epcot park bench, LED light, planter, stage area and cafeteria building. But I was told by a friend that it was "ridicules" an "astronomical" waste for what was finally delivered. I was told they should be ashamed of themselves at what it cost.

Burbank and Glendale are severely broken today....
 
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wannabeBelle

Well-Known Member
Pretty much every proposal people have suggested here uses more expansion pad space than what Disney is planning by removing the river. Most of them use all the space back there. They are absolutely related.

If people were interested in exploring TSI they had the last 20 years to prove so. They didn’t.
The space amount is absolutely related. If the expansion pads are utilized for the Cars addition the acreage number for the Frontierland area as well as MK as a whole will be larger. There is simply no getting around that. I am not proposing an either or solution for that. I am proposing to keep ROA and build this attraction.
As far as TSI, I dont have a problem re-theming that at all. I actually think that a family friendly play area/ quieter corner of the parks, perhaps even the area that was announced within the Cars expansion would be a great addition with a nice place for families to go and relax in the park. A playground area with maybe a few nods to TSI in the background could be really nice if done right. Now that would increase capacity by bringing in a new ride, giving a new area to explore as it has been changed, and adding more land into the most popular theme park in the world. This would seem like a win for everyone without sacrificing the ROA. As someone else pointed out, they have had these expansion pads for 50 years, if they dont use them now, what exactly are they waiting for? Marie
 

Delta-7

Active Member
Chiming in for the first time since this absolute supernova of information dropped last week.

I know that parks need to change. That's obviously why they're adding new things and replacing those that aren't up to speed anymore. I don't even need to start on Walt's quote of the parks always changing. But not all change is progress. It has to make sense from a wide perspective.

When this Cars land was announced at D23, I was very worried about the fact it was going in MK's Frontierland. Seeing Big Thunder Mountain in that first concept image made me afraid of the worst possible outcome. What I liked most about it though, was that this will be a completely new and different attraction, not just a value engineered cut and paste of Radiator Springs Racers. From the look and sound of it, the major ride by itself seems to be a very fun experience, even though the final product will certainly not be all what was conceptualized.

Since this was announced last week to be replacing Tom Sawyer Island and the Rivers of America, I fell into a world of depression, fear, and disbelief. I wasn't even fond of the rumors about the river getting shortened to just a donut around the main island, and the worst possible reality is here now. Trust me I know that the island may not pull in big crowds anymore, and the riverboat and river are maintenance nightmares. I'm also aware of the suitability issues of the land I thought they would use for this expansion, and possible problems with how the land would be accessed. Cars is an IP that sells really well, and while not the best fit for Magic Kingdom, would actually go nicely in the area north of BTM and the maintenance canal as a transition to the Pacific Northwest and modern times. But there's a bunch of stuff about thematic cohesion, ambience, and peacefulness that the island and river provide that many others have already brought up.

I understand that Cars could be a family friendly addition to offset Villains land, but - look around, much of the Magic Kingdom is just that! Dumbo, Buzz Lightyear, Mad Tea Party, Winnie The Pooh, SDMT, Little Mermaid, Peter Pan, the carousel, Small World, Country Bears, Tiki Room, Jungle Cruise, even the Magic Carpets. It's already here. With that in mind, if they really can't expand onto those existing pads in the back right now and keep the riverboat running, I think they could just keep the island, dock the riverboat and repurpose it for something else (not my favorite idea but here we are) and just replace the back half of the river with Villains land, leaving a circular river around the island and the stretch of it going past BTM and connecting to the backstage canal. You'd still have an area of the currently most attended theme park in the world where you can just relax or run around without the stress and loudness of the main park, and the part of the river closest to the pathways. An advantage of the smaller, not as popular rides at a Disney Park is they give depth to the attraction line up - they're extra things guests can experience while the major headliners are already packed.

I just can't imagine Magic Kingdom without the Rivers of America. Like many have said, it's a unique example of scenery, cohesion, and ambience. Ironically, it's being replaced by a mini land that, based on its location, doesn't help the thematic progression of Frontierland at all. I'm not trying to be a downer right here, but these are just my views on the subject. I hope that Cars and Villains land will turn out to be something decent at least.
 

Thanks phoenicians

Well-Known Member
What are the build times for the recent attractions?
Galaxy's Edge (probably best not Covid impacted analog) was a bit less than 3.5 years from when they closed some of the backlot attractions. Now if people want to argue that the time from announcement to completion has been 5+ years on some non-covid projects I wouldn't argue. From breaking ground to completion though I'd say somewhere around 3 years was the average pre-covid. Toy Story Land took a bit less than 3 years from announcement to completion but that land didn't really have much that was complex to build.
 

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