News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[James Alucobond]

By replacing a river you can't swim in with attractions and paths, you have replaced a lot of physical space you could not occupy with a lot of physical space you can now occupy. You don't need someone to do the calculus. And that's before you consider what appears to be a mountain that allows you to occupy more vertical space than you could before

Those reasons are all speculative so nothing to debate. I could say the point of the expansion is spatial efficiency, operational efficiency, and environmental stewardship and neither of us would have data for our claims

A huge amount of the updated space cannot be occupied. A large portion of what was previously the river is dedicated to trees, water features, and rockwork. There are no discernible wending walking paths in the artwork; there's a new connection from Big Thunder to the Haunted Mansion and then a single path into the Cars area that branches either toward the main Piston Peak attraction or the nearby junior attraction. Presumably, an exit path routes you through a gift shop. I'm not sure why the ride path rising or falling in the vertical translates into "efficiency" for you. The ride capacity is what it is regardless of where the ride path goes or how long it is, and bystanders in the area cannot wander along the ride path.

 

[October82]

How do we know it was't done? And led to a delay or pause in the announcement? We don't know either way.


Ok. Respectfully, I think your understanding of physics is compromised if you didn't realize the riverbed is supporting millions of tons of water weight and the weight of the Riverboat above it. I see your response has quietly moved on to the logistics of refilling the water from leaks, but again, it does not consider that moving water from volume A to volume B requires money -- it is not free. The same way perpetual motion devices are not real.

I'll stop there and advise we temper rushed judgments and be open to experts who are perhaps trying to educate us about challenges none of us might have known about and perhaps explain what might feel like an odd decision.

The riverbed absolutely is not supporting millions of gallons above it. The riverbed only supports the water directly above it - For ~3 meters of average depth, that's something like 5 PSI.

The riverboat passing overhead actually reduces the load on any patch of the concrete bed since it's displacing water with a less dense material. @lazyboy97o is absolutely correct that the concrete pad is there for water quality and erosion related reasons. That might mean that it needs to be maintained, but there's no immediate danger associated with age-related deterioration of the surface.

AFAIK, the water level is not actively controlled. If the rivers are linked to the seven seas lagoon, they're all kept at the same water level by gravity. Small leaks in the river system are not going to drain the seven seas lagoon, which means the water level is not going to change significantly, but they may impact erosion of the surface and water-quality. Evaporation of the river surface (offset by Florida rain) is almost certainly a bigger source of water loss from the RoA than the state of the concrete lining.

I can't imagine any significant engineering reason why Disney would be motivated to replace the RoA. I can imagine them not wanting to pay the continued costs of basic maintenance but there's no safety issues here.

 

[The Chatbox Ghost]

The riverbed absolutely is not supporting millions of gallons above it. The riverbed only supports the water directly above it - For ~3 meters of average depth, that's something like 5 PSI.

The riverboat passing overhead actually reduces the load on any patch of the concrete bed since it's displacing water with a less dense material. @lazyboy97o is absolutely correct that the concrete pad is there for water quality and erosion related reasons. That might mean that it needs to be maintained, but there's no immediate danger associated with age-related deterioration of the surface.

AFAIK, the water level is not actively controlled. If the rivers are linked to the seven seas lagoon, they're all kept at the same water level by gravity. Small leaks in the river system are not going to drain the seven seas lagoon, but they may impact erosion of the surface and water-quality.

I can't imagine any significant engineering reason why Disney would be motivated to replace the RoA. I can imagine them not wanting to pay the continued costs of basic maintenance but there's no safety issues here.

100%. To Disney, this is maximizing capacity and profits on "wasted" space. It's not about the rivers themselves being broken, it's the fact the rivers don't have Lightning Lane and merchandise.

Instead of ROA, they want ROI!

 

[lazyboy97o]

AFAIK, the water level is not actively controlled. If the rivers are linked to the seven seas lagoon, they're all kept at the same water level by gravity.

There are locks backstage. The water level does need to be in a certain range for the riverboat to be properly engaged with the track. I believe there have been a couple of times where the water got too high and the riverboat was no longer engaged with the track.

 

[The Chatbox Ghost]

I’d imagine that we’ll have to wait until at least when the buzz dies down. Maybe in Autumn? They don’t want to ruin all the positive PR they’re getting by announcing what’s closing for the new stuff.

Wow this didn't age well at all

 

[doctornick]

But the near universal thing I hear from those who don’t enjoy it is that they just simply feel strange about some of these men (a lot of these men really) being represented in a family theme park in a very celebratory context when they’re not really a figure worth celebrating.

I don't think that's an accurate way to describe the attraction though. I would say it celebrates the US government institutions and concept, sure, but the actual presidents are really more acknowledged rather than celebrated.

 

[Disstevefan1]

View attachment 809574

I am laughing but I truly think Iger is doing this to damage MK and blame it on CFTOD.

 

[October82]

There are locks backstage. The water level does need to be in a certain range for the riverboat to be properly engaged with the track. I believe there have been a couple of times where the water got too high and the riverboat was no longer engaged with the track.

Thank you for correcting that and adding some context. After writing that comment, I was curious how the system handles storm water and it sounds like that’s (part of?) the answer.

 

[THEMEPARKPIONEER]

I’ll laugh so hard if they find a sink hole under rivers of America like they did buy the Odyssey

 

[peter11435]

I am laughing but I truly think Iger is doing this to damage MK and blame it on CFTOD.

Please stop with the ridiculousness. They couldn’t blame this on CFTOD anyway but ultimately this will result in a busier more profitable MK.

 

[DonniePeverley]

Isn't this going to be radiator springs or cheap nonsense ?

 

[Disstevefan1]

Please stop with the ridiculousness. They couldn’t blame this on CFTOD anyway but ultimately this will result in a busier more profitable MK.

I will not thank you.

And I my opinion my statement is as ridiculous as Disney filling in the ROA.

You are right in that Disney SHOULD make a lot of LL money IF whatever they build works reliably.

I wish Disney thought about making money when making their movies.

 

[James Alucobond]

I will not thank you.
And I my opinion my statement is as ridiculous as Disney filling in the ROA.

Your "opinion" is just a weird conspiracy theory. Actually, it's not even a theory because it's not based on making connections between things that have actually happened. It's conspiracy wishcasting.

 

[TrainsOfDisney]

Please stop with the ridiculousness.

What kind of ridiculousness would you like to see!? (Muppet vision jokes while we can!)

but ultimately this will result in a busier more profitable MK.

That’s debatable - I feel like Disney is managing the parks very poorly and a significantly less drastic investment would gain quicker short term gains and set the park up for a much better future.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The riverboat passing overhead actually reduces the load on any patch of the concrete bed since it's displacing water with a less dense material.

The weight of the water displaced is equal to the weight of the thing displacing it. -Archimedes

 

[Erik78]

Lifelong WDW lover here. This is gutting the soul of the park. It's like paving over central park in NYC with something jazzier because the park isn's always packed. The peacefulness is the point, it's a core part of the Magic Kingdom experience. The atmosphere is critical to making the rest of the park work, a counter-balance to the concrete jungles of Tomorrowland, Fantasyland and Main St USA. I'm all for updating and adding cool new stuff, but removing structural and strategic level elements like the ROA is the absolute most destructive way to do it. To me it seems like a squandering of resources that would be better deployed fixing real problems like Wonders of Life and Imagination, as these would only be enhanced and not damaged with transformation. The lack of creativity expressed in this project is incredibly disappointing. I’m sad that my kids will probably not make it back to the Tom Sayer Island of my youth – they absolutely loved it.

 

[October82]

Isn't this going to be radiator springs or cheap nonsense ?

Something in between but closer to value than what is at DCA. Speculation is it’s a new trackless ride system, but based on the area and limitations of trackless ride vehicles will be a smaller and slower experience. I suspect that’s the reason for the “off road” theme - it can create a more thrilling experience with the ride system limitations.

That should mean a lower height limit and an attraction suitable for families with younger children.

 

[zann285]

Since it seems people are placing a franchise's relevancy on revenue generated. If we're going by the Wikipedia stats that have been posted by a few here. Pokemon kicks the snot out of ANYTHING Disney. Even Mickey is about 40bil away. So for everyone who seems to discount epic, and it won't impact Disney. If we're talking about relevancy based on dollars earned, hold on to your butts because Pokemon is the king. I know it's not going to epic, but it's part of the Nintendo expansions. And it will disrupt Disney.

My wife and I started going to Disney World only as adults, as our families couldn't really afford those kinds of trips growing up. Prior to visiting, I'd always envisioned Disney World as basically 6 Flags, but with a Mickey coaster or something. But after visiting I, like many, grew to really appreciate what Disney had built and their ability to tell stories through their attractions, stories bespoke made for the theme parks in many cases. And that drew my wife and I back for regular trips, and when we went anywhere else we would end up comparing that destination unfavorably to Disney World in some manner.

We now have an 8 year old son who we've taken there more often than other vacation destinations largely because it was more accessible due to some health concerns our family has had in recent years. And he has certainly enjoyed Disney World, but has never been very attached to any particular Disney IP, whether Toy Story or Cars or Mickey etc. We go to Disney World largely because his Mom and I want to go, not for his affinity for any Disney IP. However, he is very into Pokemon, the majority of his wardrobe is Pokemon, and very into Mario, plays the games all the time and discusses tactics with friends. He's dressed as Harry Potter for Halloween. He has Transformers and is constantly pretending to make more Transformers. Frankly, the only thing that has kept us Disney World has been us the parents and our love for the overall resort and its atmosphere. For all of the arguments that Disney needs to do this to appeal to kids and adults really don't matter, I'm not sure that's exactly how the family politics of vacation booking work. At least it hasn't been the case for us. While just removing the RoA isn't going to ruin the whole resort wholesale, it does make a big statement about The Walt Disney Company's philosophy on running resorts and how it is out of alignment with our family's goals in a vacation.

 

[peter11435]

I will not thank you.

And I my opinion my statement is as ridiculous as Disney filling in the ROA.

You are right in that Disney SHOULD make a lot of LL money IF whatever they build works reliably.

I wish Disney thought about making money when making their movies.

No your statement is definitely more ridiculous because there’s no way Disney could pin this decision on the district.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Your "opinion" is just a weird conspiracy theory. Actually, it's not even a theory because it's not based on making connections between things that have actually happened. It's conspiracy wishcasting.

"conspiracy wishcasting" I love that! I will be using that going forward.

Thanks!