News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

[The Chatbox Ghost]

I hope, hope, hope they change their mind about this.

This is one time I wish they did their usual and presented something and then forgot about it.

It's definitely worth it to email/mail letters to Bob Iger, Josh D'Amaro, Bruce Vaughn, Chris Beatty, Jeff Vahle, Michael Hundgen, and the parks communications themselves.

I got a list of contacts (emails and mailing addresses) from someone on Twitter, I can hand it out to whoever would like. All the addresses are business addresses, not personal addresses.

 

[lazyboy97o]

It could have everything to do with the project moving forward or not. I mean obviously it needs one. The point is that it may have found something materially relevant to the feasibility of the project. Just as it likely did with ROA needing to be removed due to an otherwise difficult mix of problems to remediate

The comment was about it being something that needs to be done. You can’t find something in work that has yet to be performed.

Huh? The riverbed is holding up millions of gallons of water. The "free floating" riverboat is not in zero-gravity, either: it is being held up by the water that is being held up by the riverbed. It's like saying a pool's structure is only aesthetic if nothing is sitting on its surface. That would be true if it was empty. Like a pool, excessive drainage and leaks in the riverbed mean water needs to be pumped back to maintain a specific surface level, which isn't free and requires more water and a method to do so. Which is likely why they can't just shorten the river like I thought they could because it would sever a necessary connection to Seven Seas Lagoon. In addition to all of the weight the riverbed is supporting, shifts in the surrounding ground can easily transfer lateral stresses to the riverbed -- it's not all about what's directly above it.

Know what’s even bigger than the Rivers of America? The Seven Seas Lagoon which doesn’t have a concrete bottom.

It is not the same as a swimming pool. A structural failure in a swimming pool means it is no longer safe for use for a variety of reasons from objects in the pool to water quality. A chunk of the Rivers of America concrete being removed doesn’t make it unsafe to use, it’s connected to a bunch of waterways that don’t have a concrete bed.

The water that fills the Rivers of America is essentially free because it comes from the Seven Seas Lagoon, Bay Lake and all of the other connected waterways. The method of getting that water in and out is the locks and pumps that have existed for over 50 years. This connection can be maintained with a pipe, or severed and be like other waterways.

Most of the perimeter of the River is area development. There are very few structures adjacent to it. The river has also been drained as recently as 2020. If there was any important relationship between nearby structures and the riverbed then there would have been a need for temporary structural support. It was also be a reason against removing the river.

 

[larryz]

Please send Disney a message that they can't remove this part of Walt's legacy.

 

[The Chatbox Ghost]

No. I’m saying they are filling in the existing river. That does not mean there will be no water in the new land. Because there will be.

Small creeks (as insiders have suggested) and ponds don't make up for the vast river. If the river is narrower than I am tall, it's a problem.

 

[haveyoumetmark]

It's "problematic."

Or more simply, better books with more educational value and fewer slurs have been released over the last 150 years.

 

[larryz]

I will say; the oddest thing is the urgency to get this done.

It's called "ripping off the band-aid." Nobody wants the extra bad publicity from picket lines, and picket signs...

 

[FLDisneyFan]

View attachment 809574

Maybe they should remove Iger. It's possible. Ask Chapek.

 

[peter11435]

Small creeks (as insiders have suggested) and ponds don't make up for the vast river. If the river is narrower than I am tall, it's a problem.

As I already said. You might not feel the new water features are worthy replacements. However, it’s still incorrect to say there won’t be water

 

[dmc493]

Give me a babbling brook or give me death

 

[ToTBellHop]

Tomorrowland became a lake during Debby last week. I slipped and fell headed down the Space Mtn. queue ramp due to that water feature. To hell with water features. Water features kill.

 

[ednamodedarling]

If this is the proposed Cars Attraction ride system ... sign me up.

 

[Architectural Guinea Pig]

Here is what I consider a compromise. That entire plot there, is 9 acres, compared to the Radiator Springs Racer's acreage of 6. It's a massive plot of land that only takes the back half of the area, the side of RoA we don't see. The plot connects to the HM part of Liberty Square (which doesn't need to be by water, if you look online there are no photos of it beside the water). By utilizing this massive plot without removing what fans care most about (the front half of the river, and the appearance of an island at the front), I would seriously be ok with it. And it doesn't need to breach the railroad and there's still a path for the massive waterway from the Seven Seas Lagoon. Oh, and there's two bridges beside Big Thunder and the Liberty Riverboat docked at Liberty Square.

With VIllians above Fantasyland and next to the this Cars area, the loop problem is also solved. Villians could also be made to include the railroad within its layout, which would be legendary. Also gives plenty of extra expansion space.

 

[Disstevefan1]

It's called "ripping off the band-aid."

In this case, ripping off the band-aid will take at least 6 years probably longer.

Look how long it took to destroy and replace EPCOT Future World.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

The comment was about it being something that needs to be done. You can’t find something in work that has yet to be performed.

How do we know it was't done? And led to a delay or pause in the announcement? We don't know either way.

Know what’s even bigger than the Rivers of America? The Seven Seas Lagoon which doesn’t have a concrete bottom.

It is not the same as a swimming pool. A structural failure in a swimming pool means it is no longer safe for use for a variety of reasons from objects in the pool to water quality. A chunk of the Rivers of America concrete being removed doesn’t make it unsafe to use, it’s connected to a bunch of waterways that don’t have a concrete bed.

The water that fills the Rivers of America is essentially free because it comes from the Seven Seas Lagoon, Bay Lake and all of the other connected waterways. The method of getting that water in and out is the locks and pumps that have existed for over 50 years. This connection can be maintained with a pipe, or severed and be like other waterways.

Most of the perimeter of the River is area development. There are very few structures adjacent to it. The river has also been drained as recently as 2020. If there was any important relationship between nearby structures and the riverbed then there would have been a need for temporary structural support. It was also be a reason against removing the river.

Ok. Respectfully, I think your understanding of physics is compromised if you didn't realize the riverbed is supporting millions of tons of water weight and the weight of the Riverboat above it. I see your response has quietly moved on to the logistics of refilling the water from leaks, but again, it does not consider that moving water from volume A to volume B requires money -- it is not free. The same way perpetual motion devices are not real.

I'll stop there and advise we temper rushed judgments and be open to experts who are perhaps trying to educate us about challenges none of us might have known about and perhaps explain what might feel like an odd decision.

 

[Disstevefan1]

I wonder how much its going to cost to fill in the ROA?

I wonder if they can just drain it and cap it with reinforced cement?

I have no idea about this stuff.

 

[phillip9698]

“Disneyland will be the essence of America as we know it: the nostalgia of the past with exciting glimpses into the future.” - Walt Disney

I don’t think Walt wanted attractions that mostly cater to children - the only ones that fit that description in the original park would be located in Fantasyland.

But as you say, it gets tricky knowing what Walt would or would not like.

We do know that the Riverboat, Steam Train, and Monorail were the things he personally owned - so it’s pretty clear to me that he would be against removing the riverboat for sure.

Good thing they aren’t removing any of that at DisneyLAND.

 

[CoasterCowboy67]

They’re not apples to apples, and I have no idea what the theoretical capacity of TSI and RoA was. But you had a steamboat, rafts, and various structures that you could conceivably occupy indefinitely. Now, you’ll have two queues, a gift shop, and a pair of attractions of predetermined length. I’m sure someone could do the calculus, but the point is that this expansion is more about popularity, merchandising, LL revenue, and ease of access to other expansion pads than it is about efficiency.

By replacing a river you can't swim in with attractions and paths, you have replaced a lot of physical space you could not occupy with a lot of physical space you can now occupy. You don't need someone to do the calculus. And that's before you consider what appears to be a mountain that allows you to occupy more vertical space than you could before

Those reasons are all speculative so nothing to debate. I could say the point of the expansion is spatial efficiency, operational efficiency, and environmental stewardship and neither of us would have data for our claims

 

[Wall-e]

Give me a babbling brook or give me death.

I know it's not a river but the creek at Wilderness Lodge that leads from the lobby to the pool is one of my favorite spots in all of WDW. If they are able to capture that anywhere in this new area (and at best do it in multiple places throughout) than I think we all would find something new to enjoy.

 

[lazyboy97o]

How do we know it was't done? And led to a delay or pause in the announcement? We don't know either way.

I was responding to a post saying it was something to be done, making it sounds like some unique hurdle.

My assumption would be that one was at least done for fire mountain and would have been consulted before moving forward with concept design.

Ok. Respectfully, I think your understanding of physics is compromised if you didn't realize the riverbed is supporting millions of tons of water weight and the weight of the Riverboat above it. I see your response has quietly moved on to the logistics of refilling the water from leaks, but again, it does not consider that moving water from volume A to volume B requires money -- it is not free. The same way perpetual motion devices are not real.

I'll stop there and advise we temper rushed judgments and be open to experts who are perhaps trying to educate us about challenges none of us might have known about and perhaps explain what might feel like an odd decision.

Yes, the riverbed has millions of gallons of water it is supporting. But what are the consequences of its failure? It’s there to hold the river in its place (to make rain the desired look of the river). It is not holding something up. There is no danger from not having the riverbed. That the riverbed can hold so much heavy water also contradicts the claim that construction cannot be done on the island.

You brought up refilling the lake from leaks.

Someone who works in marketing is not exactly what I consider an expert. It does in fact fit in a long tradition of vaguely technical sounding reasons that are ultimately bogus, my perennial favorite being “because of the building code”.

 

[Wall-e]

I wonder how much its going to cost to fill in the ROA?

I wonder if they can just drain it and cap it with reinforced cement?

I have no idea about this stuff.

I am not an engineer either but based on the concept art it appears to me that the land will sit even lower then the existing concrete. Either that or they plan to build up the outer boundary.