News Cars-Themed Attractions at Magic Kingdom

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
They clearly said next 5 years.

This thread is 87% people arguing against made-up points. So… just another day at the forums!
For Villains Land? That’s not going to be open in 5 years - they may start building it in 5 years haha.
This is the slate of projects over the next 5 years, although I don’t know if that means they’ll all open in that 5 years? I guess if they started villains in 2025 or 2026 it could open by 2027-2028? Unless we think it more than a 2 year build… maybe 2029
Opening?
As you can see, they clearly said "five years" but not exactly what is going to happen in five years. If they're still operating with blue sky artwork, does anyone really believe that by mid-2029 they will be strolling into Villains Land at Magic Kingdom? You'll be lucky if you're able to ride the Coco ride at DCA by then.

They may well build Villains Land, but they only announced it this early because they needed to have something to distract fans and keep them happy as they knew their actual big, confirmed announcement for Magic Kingdom was going to be so toxic with the fans that a) they couldn't announce the full details at D23 because D'Amaro would have been booed and it would probably have taken the air out of the room and derailed the whole presentation, and b) when the details came out there would be a lot of angst online. So, don't worry, in 5 years, look forward to... construction? opening? more artwork? for that Villains land you always wanted.
 
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MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Epcot is too big for the number of attractions. Every country should have something.
The original plan called for sponsors to make this happen.

It seems like the current plan is to just keep selling alcohol.

While I agree, I don't think we'll see this change to the degree we want unless Disney loses their liquor license.

Having said that, we did by miracles of miracles get the Ratatouille clone. It obviously happened because the primary development costs had already been covered by DLP with none of the original issues or room for improvement being addressed in the new build that opened 14 years after the original. We can argue about it's appropriateness for World Showcase (I think for a shoehorned IP, it's a pretty good fit) or how cheap they did or didn't go on the facade but it's the first addition of a permanent attraction to World Showcase I can think of since Maelstrom opened.

It's just funny it went into a country/pavilion that already had some sort of permanent attraction when so many others still don't but it was clearly approved and built because it ticked the right boxes for IP inclusion and budget since they did the bare minimum to install an off-the-shelf design they already had.
 
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Mr. Sullivan

Well-Known Member
This seems to me like someone is who actually informed on the subject speaking about how we got here. It does actually line up with talking points I’ve heard for several years now about the actual physical state of the river itself, the consequences of the way it was built, and the logistical and operational issues associated with those issues. If someone here with more knowledge refutes, by all means do it, but this all makes sense to me and I’ve been hearing about problems with the river bed for awhile.

 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
But if Cars doesn’t open until 2029 as speculated above (which feels insanely long to me), if effects started to be felt in 2027, couldn’t that still impact the budget for Cars? Sure the general land will be there along with the attractions but the smaller, finishing touches, like all the water features people keep assuring others exist, fall by the wayside? I’m just imagining a scenario like what happened at Epcot but significantly worse given what it’s replacing.

Pandora took 7 years from announcement to opening.

Galaxy's Edge took about 4 to partially open and then another several months to get ROTR semi-regularly running.

Tron Lightcycle Power Run (a clone) that didn't get an accompanying mini-land built with it, took six years.

Unless Disney's decided to change how they manage projects, 2029 seems pretty optimistic considering the paddle boat was still running today.

In terms of cuts, I'd say safer to expect them and possibly be pleasantly surprised if they don't happen. Of the three examples I mentioned above, Pandora is the only one that ended up opening with what was promised/shown early on.

Most of the interactive stuff from the second one was cut or pay-walled behind a separate, now closed experience and the front exterior of the third saw some pretty significant changes.

We wont even get into Cosmic Rewind and the original concept art for that or Main Street expansion or the Epcot Play Pavilion or the major redevelopment for Epcot announced after that, or what was originally shown and explained for NFL vs. what we actually got.*


*In the case of NFL, the changes in this rare instance were likely for the better but that seems to have come largely down to them realizing Potter was more problematic for them than they thought it was going to be when they first announced that expansion.
 
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Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
This seems to me like someone is who actually informed on the subject speaking about how we got here. It does actually line up with talking points I’ve heard for several years now about the actual physical state of the river itself, the consequences of the way it was built, and the logistical and operational issues associated with those issues. If someone here with more knowledge refutes, by all means do it, but this all makes sense to me and I’ve been hearing about problems with the river bed for awhile.



Well now that’s interesting.

Here’s the full text for those who can’t view Twitter:

It’s hard to see from the art, but there are new ponds, streams, and waterfalls that are being created, so it’s not a total loss of water. There will actually be more kinetic energy with this than there currently is in the area. But as for why…

Remember that the Rivers of America at WDW are connected by a lock to the Seven Seas Lagoon. Major challenges exist to this river system and drainage in the area that need to be accounted for. The foundation of the river isn’t in great shape, nor is it filtered water. The nature of this river surrounding the island system also prevents construction on the islands. To retain any of this river as is would be impossible, as the connection would need to remain near Thunder Mountain to the lock.

One of the key drivers of this re-do was requested by the park management itself… to eliminate dead ends. That can’t be accomplished while retaining the navigable river system. So you have an aging river basin in dire need of resurfacing, logistical nightmares to improve the islands, and dead end pathways on two sides. Plus access must be created to get to the other side of the river systems for any expansion.

I can tell you that countless rides were taken on the riverboat by key people involved in this decision and it was not taken lightly. They know they have to blow everyone out of the water with what gets built on the site. (Pun intended) It still makes sense.

Cars being the IP was selected for WDI by others. Cars makes ridiculous financial and demographic sense. It sells merchandise like no other franchise, it will eventually allow for the removal of the Tomorrowland Speedway on the other side of the park to free up more valuable real estate in the park, it appeals to the Floridian demographic, and it appeals to families (not single millennials, if they were going for that demographic they would have themed the entire area to A Goofy Movie). Cars also is a friendly story that will provide the friendly alternative to the scary Villains land beyond.

How to fit Cars into the region is actually very real, as JL did concepts for the original films going through places like Yellowstone, but were never realized (though the adjacent franchise, Planes Fire & Rescue does take place in a Yellowstone-like national park). There is a lot more to this concept and I think you’ll see some more Cars related IP coming around the bend that will even cement how it makes logical sense being there. This concept is adjacent to National Parks (not inside one) and it is very pretty. I do have doubts about the reliability of it being outdoors in Florida, but that’s besides the point here.

The aesthetics of the land are based on the Grizzly Peak Recreation Area in DCA. (Piston Peak instead of Grizzly Peak) Obviously there are some aesthetic differences and it’s a Cars ride instead of a rapids ride, but that’s a product of the MK having Tiana’s so close and the IP requirement set above.

In the end, there was no way to save the existing river system. The new lands have major elevation changes that can’t be accomplished without altering the river, and the reality is that they have an obligation to push for more capacity in the park, even if it means at the cost of something so big. It will be tough to see for the next 5-10 years, but I’ve been assured it will all be worth it, and the new water features will be much cleaner and feel a lot more fun.

I hope that explains a lot of the decision making that went into this. Happy to answer a few other questions if you still have them.
 

Stripes

Premium Member
It’s an interesting read - it reminds me of the “reasons” that we lost the subs as well.

There were certainly options to keep the River - to say it wasn’t possible is 100% false.
Possible and realistic are two different things.

Frankly, getting an aesthetic in Frontierland that looks like Grizzly Peak and 4 new popular attractions and beautiful vistas is a deal I’ll take any day over the worst looking Rivers of America at any Disney park.

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Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
Possible and realistic are two different things.

Frankly, getting an aesthetic in Frontierland that looks like this and 4 new popular attractions and beautiful vistas is a deal I’ll take any day over the worst looking Rivers of America at any Disney park.
View attachment 809198

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I mean, you could have not chosen a photo from DCA that so obviously has a filter to compare with a photo of Rivers of America that looks worse than I think any of us will recall seeing it in real life.

Also keep in mind that this comes as a package deal with this new refurb of Frontierland:

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Stripes

Premium Member
I mean, you could have not chosen a photo from DCA that so obviously has a filter to compare with a photo of Rivers of America that looks worse than I think any of us will recall seeing it in real life.

Also keep in mind that this comes as a package deal with this new refurb of Frontierland:

View attachment 809201
Haha, I searched Google Images for “Rivers of America Magic Kingdom” and I picked the nicest photo I saw of Rivers of America. Trust me, I could’ve chosen something worse.

You’re not just getting Cars, you’re also getting Villains out of the river. And a frontierland with more kinetic water.

IMG_0936.jpeg
 
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Mr. Sullivan

Well-Known Member
It’s an interesting read - it reminds me of the “reasons” that we lost the subs as well.

There were certainly options to keep the River - to say it wasn’t possible is 100% false.
Sure they may have been options, but if an option is not feasible then it’s not really an option.

I’m very much of the mind that there are many cases where modern Disney management likes to be lazy or thoughtless. We see it all over. But I am also of the mind that we as fan sometimes think that they are capable of moving the heavens and the earth to do things we want them to do, they just choose not to.

I definitely think there are cases of them simply not listening to what their fans want. I also think there are cases of fans reacting to things on a purely emotional level without considering various very real factors that influence a decision that we may not be made privy to because those factors involve details of park operations and construction.

We know and have known for years that not all of the land Disney owns in Florida is buildable land. We also have known for years that some of the things they DID build have not aged well whether it be poor design choices made at the time, design choices that ultimately were hampered by the parks’ further development, or the effects of building on swamp land.

There’s been talk for years that the river was in rough shape below the waterline. Many people seemed to think one day it’d be drained and the riverbed fixed (or an attempt would be made to fix it). Magic Kingdom is a theme park on a massive scale, but is also a fairly poorly designed one overall in terms of where they put certain things and how they built them.

It is very possible that the river’s problems had nothing to do with it and they just wanted it gone. It’s all very possible that any solution to these perpetual problems with the river was not actionable in the longterm and would not fix the issue but only prolong it until they had to address it again.

The truth is we don’t know. Won’t ever know. It involves aspects of the park, it’s design, and operations that won’t ever be made public knowledge. I don’t think we can just look at this from a purely emotional standpoint. As thoughtless as Disney leadership can be, I have no doubt in my mind there are dozens of factors that motivated this decision, and not all of them had to do with greed.

I only posted the Tweet to highlight that as emotional as it makes everyone, we cannot forget that there are indeed things out there that go beyond leadership incompetence and that sometimes things just wind up in a condition that isn’t really saveable in a way that makes sense.
 

Stripes

Premium Member
Possible and realistic are two different things.

Frankly, getting an aesthetic in Frontierland that looks like Grizzly Peak and 4 new popular attractions and beautiful vistas is a deal I’ll take any day over the worst looking Rivers of America at any Disney park.

View attachment 809198

View attachment 809199

View attachment 809200
In fairness, I found a nicer photo, with a filter, of ROA.

IMG_0937.jpeg


And here’s Tokyo. MK’s ROA was nothing special and now our Frontierland will be distinguished by its unique beauty rather than it’s unique blandness.

IMG_0939.jpeg


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Credit to https://x.com/thehappyzan?s=21
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Construction started on GE April 14th, 2016. It opened at Disneyland May 31st, 2019, and DHS August 29th, 2019.

So basically 3 years for Disneyland. 3 years 3.5 months for DHS.
I'm going by announcement dates since that's what we have to go by here which in your example was D23 August 15th, 2015 and I'm talking about Florida - the same place this is going.

Construction hasn't started.

Heck, they even said there would still be "plenty of time" to enjoy things as they are before it starts.

When does that lead you to believe we'll start seeing vertical work on a new attraction in this current space?
 

Sir_Cliff

Well-Known Member
In fairness, I found a nicer photo, with a filter, of ROA.

View attachment 809204

And here’s Tokyo. MK’s ROA was nothing special and now our Frontierland will be distinguished by its unique beauty rather than it’s unique blandness.

View attachment 809205

View attachment 809206

View attachment 809207

Credit to https://x.com/thehappyzan?s=21
What you're describing as "unique beauty" involves a mountain in the shape of a piston as the centrepiece and cars with big cartoon faces zooming around.

As always, though, beauty is subjective.
 

Disney Analyst

Well-Known Member
I'm going by announcement dates.

Construction hasn't started.

Heck, they even said there would still be "plenty of time" to enjoy things as they are before it starts.

When does that lead you to believe we'll start seeing vertical work on a new attraction?

Work starts next year. And I don’t think this cars buildout would take as long as GE, simply due to it seemingly looking like a less complex build, based on concept to art. I’m still going with 2 maybe 2.5 years for it. 2027, early 2028 at latest.
 

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