Can They Expand??

[draybook]

I love the transporter idea but Universal would have to buy the rights from Paramount. If it were put up for auction Disney would buy it. Very funny idea though

Like they did with the rights to Harry Potter?........ouch......

 

[maxairmike]

that is the problem. I would like to see the map on this. where is the land for the rail system? As far as I can see the land they own is not adjacent to the existing parks and it would also have to connect to wet n wild. where and how? as you said using the streets doesn't work and you do not expect Orlando to be able to fix that problem. BUT Universal does have to before they can expand and use all the land they have or they will have to deal with this problem and so will their cusfomers. However if the attractions are great the customer will put up with it.

You seem to claim to know Disney's land situation so well in other posts, so I'm absolutely baffled as to why you seem so clueless on this situation. Some pretty significant points seem to be flying right over your head on this. Did you not catch the "iconic of US Disney parks" part of my post? How much land do monorail or other rail support columns take up? I think I'll just leave @marni1971 to the short posts to try and clue you in.

 

[seascape]

You seem to claim to know Disney's land situation so well in other posts, so I'm absolutely baffled as to why you seem so clueless on this situation. Some pretty significant points seem to be flying right over your head on this. Did you not catch the "iconic of US Disney parks" part of my post? How much land do monorail or other rail support columns take up? I think I'll just leave @marni1971 to the short posts to try and clue you in.

I have looked at the land Universal Owns. I am sure they will connect Wet N Wild somehow. However, connecting the rest of it will not be easy or cheap. They will have to reach agreements to buy quite a few plots of land and it will come at a great cost. Should they do it, maybe if they think it will produce enough in profits. I do expect expansion but at a slower pace than you want. This is same complaint people have about WDW. Everyone wants everything done yesterday and things don't work that way. Also just because you want to go over someone elses property and the pilings wont take much space does not mean you can. No company can build over another persons property without permission so even if they are not putting the piling on a persons property, they can't even go over it. My bet is they will use busses which are lower in cost.

The next question I have for you is do you think a city should be able to take one persons land for the benefit of another person or private company. This is one of the major issues to still be decided in this country. Do you think Orlando should take someones property just so Universal or another company can make more money? I hate that some cities have done and this and take heart that people are fighting back and winning. But that is a subject that should not be discussed here.

 

[maxairmike]

I have looked at the land Universal Owns. I am sure they will connect Wet N Wild somehow. However, connecting the rest of it will not be easy or cheap. They will have to reach agreements to buy quite a few plots of land and it will come at a great cost. Should they do it, maybe if they think it will produce enough in profits. I do expect expansion but at a slower pace than you want. This is same complaint people have about WDW. Everyone wants everything done yesterday and things don't work that way. Also just because you want to go over someone elses property and the pilings wont take much space does not mean you can. No company can build over another persons property without permission so even if they are not putting the piling on a persons property, they can't even go over it. My bet is they will use busses which are lower in cost.

The next question I have for you is do you think a city should be able to take one persons land for the benefit of another person or private company. This is one of the major issues to still be decided in this country. Do you think Orlando should take someones property just so Universal or another company can make more money? I hate that some cities have done and this and take heart that people are fighting back and winning. But that is a subject that should not be discussed here.

I have absolutely no clue what in the world you're getting at in the above post, but I hope you were using the royal "you," because I have no expectations of their pace of expansion (I actually think their current pace is a bit too ambitious, but that's just me). I'm also not sure if you realize that Universal only owns their current resort area and the WnW land, based on the last few posts. All the other plots on the south end of Universal Blvd. are just what are rumored and expected to be bought sometime in the relatively near future. Also, there's this thing called "right of way" or "easement" that usually comes into play with transportation and doesn't require eminent domain or any forceful acquisition of land. I really have no clue why you brought eminent domain into the picture, because it has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on or will happen with the areas being discussed.

Also, you may want to do a little homework on Fourth Quarter Properties and one Stanley Thomas. "Great cost" are not quite the words I would use in conjunction with acquiring FQP lots given the...issues Mr. Thomas has had the last several years.

 

[seascape]

I almost forgot. Do you have any idea what it costs to build a monorail? Remember it is not just the line connecting all the parks, there has to be a maintenance facility and that costs money too. There is no way Universal will build one. It is just cost prohibitive and would keep them from expanding their park and attactions. The money is much better spent on what people want to see and do. WDW has two lines that cover a large distance but they only need one maintenance facility and even that is very costly and I bet if they had not built it in the first place they would not build it now.

 

[maxairmike]

I almost forgot. Do you have any idea what it costs to build a monorail? Remember it is not just the line connecting all the parks, there has to be a maintenance facility and that costs money too. There is no way Universal will build one. It is just cost prohibitive and would keep them from expanding their park and attactions. The money is much better spent on what people want to see and do. WDW has two lines that cover a large distance but they only need one maintenance facility and even that is very costly and I bet if they had not built it in the first place they would not build it now.

Yes, I'm aware of all of the largely fluctuating and conflicting numbers constantly posted regarding new monorail installations. Ignoring costs, the route limitations on monorails are actually not at all a problem in this kind of scenario, as there would really only be three (guessing, but a pretty good guess) stations on one loop. The large plot on the south end of Universal Blvd. is pretty much going to be the extent of expansion with the exception of Major Blvd. (so I guess maybe have a 4th station for the monorail loop), so it in no way keeps them from expanding. Now, going back into the reality of costs, I'm not sure what they're going to choose for their final elevated transit line, but I would not be surprised if it would be a modern Bombardier monorail system. It will be some form of elevated light rail, of that I am 99.9999% certain.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I guess you didn't see that Comcast bought broadcast rights for 10 Olympic Games for 7.7 billion? This is a company that thinks long term, not necessarily in its customer's best interest, so they can grow their business over the long haul. They have room to build one more hotel on their current plot and they have made it very clear in the press that they want to get to 10,000-15,000 on-site rooms. The purchases adjacent to Wet & Wild were just the beginning of their land acquisition plan. They'll likely get their hands on the Lockheed plot soon and likely have money put away to buy as much property to isolate itself from its neighbors as they can buy. They smell blood and they know it will take Disney years to get back on its game and that has created an opening. It's no longer the "Walt Disney World" vacation, it's the "Orlando/Central Florida" vacation and UNI wants to grab the biggest slice of the tourism pie it can get; even if that means spending billions on land acquisitions and transportation infrastructure.

 

[seascape]

I have absolutely no clue what in the world you're getting at in the above post, but I hope you were using the royal "you," because I have no expectations of their pace of expansion (I actually think their current pace is a bit too ambitious, but that's just me). I'm also not sure if you realize that Universal only owns their current resort area and the WnW land, based on the last few posts. All the other plots on the south end of Universal Blvd. are just what are rumored and expected to be bought sometime in the relatively near future. Also, there's this thing called "right of way" or "easement" that usually comes into play with transportation and doesn't require eminent domain or any forceful acquisition of land. I really have no clue why you brought eminent domain into the picture, because it has absolutely nothing to do with what's going on or will happen with the areas being discussed.

Also, you may want to do a little homework on Fourth Quarter Properties and one Stanley Thomas. "Great cost" are not quite the words I would use in conjunction with acquiring FQP lots given the...issues Mr. Thomas has had the last several years.

I think we agree that Universal will do work on wet n wild and find a way to connect it to the parks and hotels. i thinks for now it's best to leave it at that since we disagree on how. i think they will uses busses and you believe otherwise.

 

[maxairmike]

I think we agree that Universal will do work on wet n wild and find a way to connect it to the parks and hotels. i thinks for now it's bast to disagree on how since i think they will uses busses and you be eleven otherwise.

Busses will be used, I'm sure, but it won't be the primary option of transport, at least in the long run. Heck, I don't think they even run busses (1st party, at least, I think they have some 3rd party doing it) to WnW right now as it is. I suggest you look up the Ultimate I-4 project, as well as many of the other major road improvement projects that will be happening in that general area over the next 6-7 years, especially if you're a local. While I don't quite have the connections that @marni1971 and Spirit have (and they've both repeatedly indicated the transport will be an elevated form of light rail), what I do know leads me to the same conclusions they're stating. Throw in the recent bid on a new light rail line between the airport and the OCCC area, as well as other projects and it all starts to make sense.

 

[seascape]

I guess you didn't see that Comcast bought broadcast rights for 10 Olympic Games for 7.7 billion? This is a company that thinks long term, not necessarily in its customer's best interest, so they can grow their business over the long haul. They have room to build one more hotel on their current plot and they have made it very clear in the press that they want to get to 10,000-15,000 on-site rooms. The purchases adjacent to Wet & Wild were just the beginning of their land acquisition plan. They'll likely get their hands on the Lockheed plot soon and likely have money put away to buy as much property to isolate itself from its neighbors as they can buy. They smell blood and they know it will take Disney years to get back on its game and that has created an opening. It's no longer the "Walt Disney World" vacation, it's the "Orlando/Central Florida" vacation and UNI wants to grab the biggest slice of the tourism pie it can get; even if that means spending billions on land acquisitions and transportation infrastructure.

getting the Olympics was a great deal. i will say they do a great job covering the Stanley Cup which those of us in the north love. hockey is the best sport and nbc covers it well.. they even do a great job covering cycling. I can and do think Comcast is a great company. i also think Disney is and Disney has also been making some great investments. that's great for all of us. i hope universal does expand and does well. I do have money invested in their stock too but i think from an investment point of view and person view. so what anyone who would put all their eggs in one basket can lose everything. I like both companies.

 

[seascape]

Not to harp on the bus issue but please go look at cabana bay's website and see what type of transportation they offer to the parks other than walking.

 

[ChrisFL]

I have looked at the land Universal Owns. I am sure they will connect Wet N Wild somehow. However, connecting the rest of it will not be easy or cheap. They will have to reach agreements to buy quite a few plots of land and it will come at a great cost. Should they do it, maybe if they think it will produce enough in profits. I do expect expansion but at a slower pace than you want. This is same complaint people have about WDW. Everyone wants everything done yesterday and things don't work that way. Also just because you want to go over someone elses property and the pilings wont take much space does not mean you can. No company can build over another persons property without permission so even if they are not putting the piling on a persons property, they can't even go over it. My bet is they will use busses which are lower in cost.

If you aren't aware, Universal previously owned 2,000 acres on Lockheed Martin property, then sold the land shortly after 9/11 happened....it was sold to several companies, but hardly developed at all...recently I heard that some of that land was actually available cheaper than what Universal sold it for to being with.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

If you aren't aware, Universal previously owned 2,000 acres on Lockheed Martin property, then sold the land shortly after 9/11 happened....it was sold to several companies, but hardly developed at all...recently I heard that some of that land was actually available cheaper than what Universal sold it for to being with.

There are rumors that Comcast owned shell companies that have been acquiring land on its behalf beyond the W&W plots.

 

[maxairmike]

There are rumors that Comcast owned shell companies that have been acquiring land on its behalf beyond the W&W plots.

You mean like the very odd foreign entity that took over a few of the south plots of land at the beginning of the year? That is still puzzling, but would certainly make sense. There are also some head scratching details about the Stanley Thomas/FQP acquisition of the land back when Universal "sold" it that indicated Universal was paying for the cleanup of the land from the years of Lockheed testing and dumping. The cleaning is only just finishing up or nearly completed, which just happens to coincide with all these whispers, bankruptcy and tax issues, and an increase in expansion rumors. Awfully interesting, if you ask me.

 

[BigTxEars]

I have no ideal what Uni will do, I still favor tunnels similar am clearly in LaLa land!

But why the h e double hickey sticks does it cost $100 million per mile to build a freaking monorail? Are you kidding me! Some gravy in that contract

 

[seascape]

On

I have no ideal what Uni will do, I still favor tunnels similar am clearly in LaLa land!

But why the h e double hickey sticks does it cost $100 million per mile to build a freaking monorail? Are you kidding me! Some gravy in that contract

I am glad you posted the cost because so many here would not have believed me. A for Universal they have a major advertising campaign going on in New York advertising Universal California.

 

[BigTxEars]

On
I am glad you posted the cost because so many here would not have believed me. A for Universal they have a major advertising campaign going on in New York advertising Universal California.

I read that cost on here somewhere. But it just seems way to high for me. I mean I get expensive but $100 million per mile, that just seems insanely high. I do not know construction very well but to my layman mind it just seems crazy.

 

[StageFrenzy]

I have no ideal what Uni will do, I still favor tunnels similar am clearly in LaLa land!

But why the h e double hickey sticks does it cost $100 million per mile to build a freaking monorail? Are you kidding me! Some gravy in that contract

I am glad you posted the cost because so many here would not have believed me. A for Universal they have a major advertising campaign going on in New York advertising Universal California.

The 100mil per mile figure is a number that has been thrown around by various people on this forum for so long it has become gospel. For a "Disney" style Monorail built at Disney I could see it maybe reaching closer to that number because of the management and soft costs. That being said there are other aerial train/tram systems which would be much more reasonable cost per mile.

 

[BigTxEars]

The 100mil per mile figure is a number that has been thrown around by various people on this forum for so long it has become gospel. For a "Disney" style Monorail built at Disney I could see it maybe reaching closer to that number because of the management and soft costs. That being said there are other aerial train/tram systems which would be much more reasonable cost per mile.

That makes sense. I could see $100M for mile one to get the "ball roiling" but after that it would seem to become less expensive per mile. But again I know squat about construction.

 

[TubaGeek]

The 100mil per mile figure is a number that has been thrown around by various people on this forum for so long it has become gospel. For a "Disney" style Monorail built at Disney I could see it maybe reaching closer to that number because of the management and soft costs. That being said there are other aerial train/tram systems which would be much more reasonable cost per mile.

Exactly.
How much cheaper was Uni's ride reservation system? How about we compare cost vs awesomeness in FLE vs Potter 1? Uni follows the KISS method: Keep it simple, Stupid. And it works. Costs stay down, but quality doesn't suffer.