Cameron has given the OK ...

[EPCOTCenterLover]

"I also believe that nothing 'sells' going on a journey (whether a surreal one like that of the original Journey Into the Imagination, or a more straightforward one like Pirates of the Caribbean) like actual movement from point A to point B. I also think that audiences can now easily access increasingly advanced screen technologies outside of theme parks (Imax, 4K, digital 3D, Omnimax). What this means is that we need more 'mixed' stimuli to fool our senses into suspending disbelief. And by mixed stimuli, I mean a combination of screens, sets, simulated motion, and actual forward motion. On the other hand, attractions that only involve a simulated range of motion in front of a screen are much more easily dismissed by the viewer's mind as an 'inauthentic' or simulated experience."

AGREED 100%!!!

 

[Lee]

Again....the project was never dead.
It took a bit over a year of back-and-forth (often contentious) before they could reach a deal with Lightstorm on what they were going to build. During that time, the project was described to me variously as "really poking along", "at a standstill", and "on life support". Part of this was creative issues and also because of issues with the sequels being pushed back/put on hold.
More than one person told me they wish the thing would just die already so that the money and manpower could be diverted to something else.
For all I know, it took a threat by Disney to walk away (like with Rowling) to get the rides approved.

Anyone calling it dead was misreading the situation. None of us here are involved in the project, so we have to rely on sources that we trust. They aren't always 100% on the money, but they can usually keep us pointed in the right direction.

And for the record, nobody on this site who provides reliable "insider" information ever...EVER...makes stuff up, and never makes statements that they know to be false. To say otherwise is extremely rude, disrespectful and insulting.

 

[The Empress Lilly]

Granted, they could also fail miserably and put in a giant, epic flight simulator about butterflies,

Man, I would love an epic flight simulator about butterflies. Fascinating creatures. Imagine being shown the world from their perspective, so different from our world. It feels like something Walt would've added to DAK.

Such a pity Disney is lost for serious entertainment / light edutainment. Hollywood fads and blue alien sex kittens for the nature park it is then!

 

[danlb_2000]

I am aware that the combination of difference sensory stimuli are what contribute to one's enjoyment of a ride. That goes without saying.

I also believe that nothing 'sells' going on a journey (whether a surreal one like that of the original Journey Into the Imagination, or a more straightforward one like Pirates of the Caribbean) like actual movement from point A to point B. I also think that audiences can now easily access increasingly advanced screen technologies outside of theme parks (Imax, 4K, digital 3D, Omnimax). What this means is that we need more 'mixed' stimuli to fool our senses into suspending disbelief. And by mixed stimuli, I mean a combination of screens, sets, simulated motion, and actual forward motion. On the other hand, attractions that only involve a simulated range of motion in front of a screen are much more easily dismissed by the viewer's mind as an 'inauthentic' or simulated experience.

I would disagree with this last part. One of the things that impressed the me most with Harry Potter the Forbidden Journey is the incredible sense of speed you get during the video portions.

 

[Rivers Rowe]

Boo hoo, the insiders are 0 for Avatar and now they are crying.

 

[NoChesterHester]

None of us have ever experienced a screen attraction like the one described in this thread. While I am in the camp that would 100% be more in favor of a physical based attraction, like the indoor motorbike coaster, I am still optimistic this will be spectacular.

Here is why...

1. A winding multi level queue that starts on level 1 and makes its way all the way up to level 3. Are we winding up into the Halelujia Mountains? Into those house trees? From recent history they are really going all out on these queues. Should be mind blowing entering an alien world.

2. Has anyone here been exposed to Ultra HD video yet? From what I hear there isn't a dicernable difference between UHD and a real life physical image. The people that experienced it at the last E3 stated that movement was so overwhelmingly real that they had to concentrate not to lose their balance. Now do that in concert with a three story screen that completly envelops your view and a motion simulator... Could be more visually impressive than anything they could physically create for a realistic budget.

All I'm saying... Is I'll give it a chance to blow me away.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Very few people, if any, actually believed that Avatarland was dead for certain; let's just drop that straw man. Just about everybody here understands that nothing is definite until construction starts (and, even then, it's not a sure thing). The reaction to this latest news was merely surprise at the sudden change of fortune after hearing very little information about Avatarland that wasn't related to how the project was stuck in development hell. So, this is really kind of a silly conversation to be having.

***EDIT: To counter the rudeness of those bashing our insiders, on behalf of everyone else on this site, I'd like to extend kudos to our insiders for the information they bring to our forums.

Actually, plenty of your circle were saying they were glad to hear Avatar was dead... And now that the project is still alive, alive and well may I add, the heads of the haters are slowly getting to the point of exploding...

The day this opens will be a sight to see... Haters lining up with everyone else to go and see what was built and enjoy the land... LoL...

 

[dreamscometrue]

I'm interested to see what the boat ride will be. Some of my fav attractions at WDW are the 'little' boat rides'...Pirates, Living with the Land, Small World, Maelstrom. Who knows, this could be a hidden gem that gets overlooked, but has really cool immersive elements. Enchanted Tales with Belle was like that during the entire Fantasyland construction. It never got mentioned really, but has some wonderful facets to it.

 

[WDW1974]

Sadly, I'm told Epcot has no large scale plan for the foreseeable except to limp forward as it is doing. But Food n Wine will save it of course according to the VP.

Yeah, a VP who likely will be moving on and replaced by yet another empty suit (albeit probably not with as nice legs) within the year. No one 'owns' a park VP position, except for Phil "yes, I am vain enough to ask for a picture of me be included in the FLE'' Holmes and he will be retiring in the not too distant future.

 

[GeorgiaPinesRJB]

Yeah, a VP who likely will be moving on and replaced by yet another empty suit (albeit probably not with as nice legs) within the year. No one 'owns' a park VP psotion, except for Phil "yes, I am vain enough to ask for a picture of me be included in the FLE'' Holmes and he will be retiring in the not too distant future.

"You're so vain, you probably think this expansion is about you..." haha

 

[WDW1974]

It does not appear that the patent you linked to will be put to use in this project. The E-Ticket attraction will almost certainly used a customized version of THIS.

The boat ride, however, may be able to benefit from the patent they filed where a boat rides on two parallel track that essentially pivot the boat in the water as it travels along, aiming guests at specific things - much like an Omnimover does.

And to clear up one tiny little thing that keeps popping up. This project is NOT "out for bid". The drawings that were leaked are clearly labeled as "Concept Design Phase" with "October 10, 2012 - FIRST DRAFT" specifically applied to the "Basis of Design" narratives put together by Mechanical and Electrical Engineers when they don't want to spend a month and $100,000 drawing complete mechanical and electrical plans.

All they've done right now is draw the floor plans, a few sections, and a set of structural plans. The Electrical Engineer wrote up 10 pages of information on 8.5x11 pages. The Mechanical Engineer did the same.

Disney sent this packet out to at least three companies - their favorite electrician, favorite mechanical contractor and favorite General Contractor. Each had been asked to put together an ESTIMATED PRICE to build this facility based on what can be seen in these plans and narratives.

These plans aren't even close to being ready to put out for actual contractor bidding - hands down. What Disney needs is for the GC, EC and MC each to give them their estimates. Add to it the estimate from the rockwork guy. On top of that, add everything WDI will build and BVCC will install. And get a site development number from someone like Thor to make the land ready to use.

Add all those up, and you've got a number that's $X Million. They go to Camerone one last time and say, "Look, this is how much it's going to cost." He'll say, "OK, sure" or "Nah". If "Nah", Disney has plan B in their pocket and can re-skin this thing in a heartbeat.

But if it DOES go, don't get excited. They've got another 6 months of final design, real bidding, and strategery.

Then, they can start building, once FotLK has moved and is back open.

Exactly ... with two caveats:

1.) At this point, Cameron has signed off on what will be included in the land, so he has no real say on budget issues. Disney will have to pay for the land as agreed upon whether the cost is $386 million, $429 million or $667 million. They've made their bed with blue alien sex kitten sheets and now they get to sleep with them;

2.) FotLK's moving an extreme delay is very much a cost-cutting move to save on all those pricey Equity actors. If the show is dark for nine months or a year, then Disney doesn't pay them. They aren't $9 an hour foamheads.

 

[WDW1974]

Exactly. This has been the most troubled project to come down the line in...maybe ever, but it was never dead. Anyone saying that was just trying to grab a headline.

It took them a year to even reach an agreement on what would go into the land, thanks to the...ummm...disagreements...between Disney and Lightstorm. (I'm also told that budget remains a sticking point, despite an agreement on the actual menu of attractions.)

As edwardtc said above, there is still a long way to go before they get clost to starting actual construction.

This. READ THIS before saying something stupid that some of us will feel compelled to respond to.

As to the budget issues, read what I just posted a few ago ... that comes straight from 1401. The budget may be an issue, but it is one for Disney at this point since Cameron/Lightstorm have signed off on the land's makeup.

 

[Cody C]

Yes!!! So glad they are going through with avatar. After seeing the new fle I know Disney has the potential to build something amazing. I hope construction does start in 2013 so that I can watch it be constructed while I'm there for the college program

 

[WDW1974]

So wdw74 and Raven didn't have a "back and forth" disagreement with Raven saying the Avatar project was still going forward and wdw74 saying it was dead?

Or are we splitting hairs and playing semantics?

Regardless, it is encouraging (to me) to see developments for the reason Avatar-land is everything Dinoland is not. Great to see innovation going into a WDW park

No semantics. I watch my words carefully on important matters. Never said it was dead. I said it was on life support, said it was troubled, said many people inside WDI felt it would never happen etc. But never did I post on MAGIC that 'Avatar is dead. It isn't happening.' So, please let's stick to the facts.

And I don't know what Raven said because he isn't around here much anymore and doesn't say much, which leads me to believe that his employer has decided they don't want him posting info here unless it is of the innocuous variety.

 

[Lee]

As to the budget issues, read what I just posted a few ago ... that comes straight from 1401. The budget may be an issue, but it is one for Disney at this point since Cameron/Lightstorm have signed off on the land's makeup.

I certainly don't question your information on that.

But...it troubles me somewhat.
I REALLY hope Cameron maintained some Rowlingesque creative control in order to ensure that the agreed upon attractions etc. not only get built, but get built to his standards. I don't yet (despite how pretty FLE is...) trust Disney not to cut a corner here and there.

 

[WDW1974]

So I don't think it's questionable to say people have put it off as virtually dead. After all, its a ton of offhand comments (like ones above) that sparked numerous threads and tangents in several threads over it's likelyhood.

Have people called for the funeral outright? No, but there are plenty of passing comments like the WDW1974 one above like 'aint gonna happen' type comments. Through Sept and Oct comments got a lot less aggressive and more were like 'snails pace.. disagreements..' - but comments prior to that were much more aggressive.

I think some people have passive aggressive down to an art form here, that's what I think. Oh, were we talking about something else?

Ah yeah, people who want to attack me and others for stating the project has been (and likely continues to be) a troubled one.

If you look at the docs, most are from the middle of Spetmeber to just a few weeks ago. What does that tell you about when an agreement was finally reached to the point where Disney could reach out to others who would hope to build it?

And, not that it matters one .... (not sure whether we can say that word here ... never got a clarification), but when I said I didn't feel it was gonna happen, it wasn't anything more than a thought based on what I was hearing and seeing while in O-Town. I mean, I get that you and many here (and still apparently on my old home, the truly dead DisneyPlace) hang on my every word. But sometimes you can read 100% certainty into a comment that is meant as opinion.

 

[WDW1974]

Wow! You just blew my mind. Thanks so much for the info. I'm even more jazzed about this expansion now. Also I'm now curious about the new additions to the Hogsmeade area you alluded to. Would this be something as major as a new walk-through attraction or a new store?

If the leaked Pandora plans are indeed accurate, and all we're getting as the big e-ticket is Soarin' 2.0, I'm extremely disappointed in Disney. Definitely Potter Phase 2 sounds like the real thing to get excited about. But maybe the C-ticket boat ride will turn out to be really really cool? Maybe?

Yes, thanks for the info, Lightbulb. We all know you are biased and have a Disney Hater agenda and all, but it is nice to hear what UNI is planning to wow us in the years ahead.

Did you Disney is building Tangled themed restrooms?!?!? I know ... amazing.

And adding FP to Disney Junior on Stage, GMR, SSE, Turtle Talk and pretty much everything else too! Stuff you can really market to potential guests who aren't addicted to Pixie Dust.

 

[WDW1974]

I just want to say that the people who have "Soarin 2.0" stuck in their minds need to take a better look at the Vekoma system that's been linked to about 10 times already, before they get all down in the dumps about the ride system and technology.

The E-Ticket (assuming it really does use the Vekoma system....which the design clearly accommodates), would be more like a Soarin 10.0. It combines the nearly 270-degrees of motion of Star Tours, with the cantilevered and "free-floating" suspension system of Soarin - with a MUCH faster load/unload time.

And, if the word Morpho means anything, perhaps it will make use of Cameron's videography and projection. Combine that with 3-D glasses and it could actually be extremely impressive and quite thrilling.

If they do it right, it will be an E-Ticket that I (and my extremely sensitive motion sickness) can't ride. But given the seating system, anyone who can ride Soarin should be able to ride it. And anyone who can ride Pirates can ride the C-Ticket.

Granted, they could also fail miserably and put in a giant, epic flight simulator about butterflies, which might as well mean, "Our next move is to just close and condemn the park like we did with River Country."

I have been assured by someone I have tremendous respect for that this indeed will be far more than Soarin 2.0 and will be an amazing attraction. I believe the person more than I trust Disney, but Disney ain't leaking anything my way!

 

[misterID]

So, there's not even a glimmer of hope for EPCOT??

And I doubt that's Jimmy's girlfriend (Jimmy having a girlfriend = hysterical, as that's his problem!) you're dealing with one of his personalities that has their own username.

 

[WDW1974]

I certainly don't question your information on that.

But...it troubles me somewhat.
I REALLY hope Cameron maintained some Rowlingesque creative control in order to ensure that the agreed upon attractions etc. not only get built, but get built to his standards. I don't yet (despite how pretty FLE is...) trust Disney not to cut a corner here and there.

I can't say with 100% certainty. But knowing the man and his rep. And knowing him in the business a bit more than the average poster here, I have to believe he is still holding all the cards on this. It took so long and came close to dying many times because of him. Disney would have put out a Goofy as an Avatar meet-greet-and-grope and called it an attraction (oops, I may have given them a plush idea!) ... I don't 'think' ... I don't believe that Disney will be able to cut corners on anything here now that there's an agreement.