Cameron has given the OK ...

[Ignohippo]

I'm gonna surmise that the queue will be highly themed and immersive, on the level of Mermaid.
I see all those winding hallways, and I think about wandering through scientific Avatar labs, or perhaps
under their home tree, or perhaps in the village. There are lots of opportunities for intense theming
in the queue, if it's just a hallway, they've really dropped the ball. Yes, that would make it easier to
re-theme, but I don't think it's gonna be just a hallway.

I don't say anything about the queue or a "hallway". Not sure why you quoted my post.

I think the days of boring queues are over. Thank Gawd.

If you're talking about the queue being more difficult to re-purpose, that is true. But it's still just basically sets. They could be changed relatively easily – but relatively is the key word. There will massive costs involved – just nothing like what it would cost to re-theme something like the RSR mountain range.

 

[flynnibus]

Ignohippo has a point, though.

Consider for a moment the relative ease with which Universal was able to transform Back to the Future into The Simpsons Ride.

The entire projection system was replaced... the ride system was overhauled and modernized... the audio system was all redone. Pretty much what they kept were the domes and building. The ride still cost $30 to $40 million.. with the benefits of shared costs AND retrofitting. Compared to an attraction of the scale of Everest, built by unthrifty Disney, from ground up, no shared costs, just two years earlier, for $100 mil. Not exactly a poster child for 'cheap retrofits'.

Re-themeing, or heck, even repairing something like Expedition Everst: is nearly impossible without partially tearing down the whole structure.

The Yeti is an isolated case and there is nothing keeping them from taking him out in bits -- that's a miserable example. They could retheme the thing to something else set in the himalayas and barely touch the ride itself.. and that's the most extreme case because of the external mountain. If I were to build a coaster through a jungle... I could later keep the coaster, and just change the jungle from alien jungle to Amazon Jungle and do something else, etc.

 

[Atomicmickey]

I don't say anything about the queue or a "hallway". Not sure why you quoted my post.

I think the days of boring queues are over. Thank Gawd.

If you're talking about the queue being more difficult to re-purpose, that is true. But it's still just basically sets. They could be changed relatively easily – but relatively is the key word. There will massive costs involved – just nothing like what it would cost to re-theme something like the RSR mountain range.

No worries, I was just pointing out that while it might be, as you said "relatively easy" to change out a film, if they surround it with intense theming, the easy part will go away.

 

[MichWolv]

WDW Spirited Quickees

Quick changes inside Disney. Or, @WDW1974, you really are jt!

 

[Ignohippo]

Repairing EE in no way, shape or form requires partially tearing down the whole structure.

He said "Re-theming". And, for that matter, yes it would take tearing the mountain down to repair it (or have you not been paying attention to the Yeti debacle)!

 

[flynnibus]

Please see post #463.

We're talking Radiator Springs style rock work on the coaster – not simply set dressing. The boat ride on the other hand would be easy to change.

Considering many within the company are against Avatar in the first place, I don't think it's wrong of them to be cautious at all.

Creatively, if you are building to fail - you will fail. Such mentalities constrain what you will do because you are not committed -- that's why it's not healthy.

And even if you had RSR type of environments.. it's still just a canyon.. nothing keeping you from redressing that without tearing the whole thing down. Just like everest could be redressed, RnRC, SM, etc.

Construction is cheap compared to movie production still.

 

[Ignohippo]

No worries, I was just pointing out that while it might be, as you said "relatively easy" to change out a film, if they surround it with intense theming, the easy part will go away.

As I said, it's all relative.

Considering I can't afford a cheeseburger right now, even that is expensive!

We're still talking a Test Track 2.0 type of expense (plus) to change it over to something else. But that pales in comparison to having to re-theme something like Radiator Springs.

 

[GLaDOS]

He said "Re-theming". And, for that matter, yes it would take tearing the mountain down to repair it (or have you not been paying attention to the Yeti debacle)!

He also said repairing.

I know quite a bit about the yeti debacle. And I know the mountain doesn't have to be altered to fix it.

 

[Master Yoda]

And those of us who think there SHOULD be a coaster as well as a family dark ride.

Why can't we have both? The way it's been recently, were getting 1 coaster every ten years or more. All 4 parks need more E-tickets...some being big coasters, others being awesome immersive dark rides.

The Rolling Stones summed it up best....



In all seriousness, AK has serious need of attractions. Adding 2 attractions that a larger percentage of guests can go will go further in solving that problem better than a polarizing thrill ride. All is not lost though. A coaster component is rumored for phase 2.

 

[Ignohippo]

Creatively, if you are building to fail - you will fail. Such mentalities constrain what you will do because you are not committed -- that's why it's not healthy.

And even if you had RSR type of environments.. it's still just a canyon.. nothing keeping you from redressing that without tearing the whole thing down. Just like everest could be redressed, RnRC, SM, etc.

Construction is cheap compared to movie production still.

I whole-heartedly completely disagree with you on everything about what you're saying.

If you think the theming of RnR Coaster and the theming of RSR are the same thing, then it isn't worth even having the discussion with you.

Oh, and if you haven't noticed, RS isn't just a "canyon" – the mountains look like cars. You can't just simply take the Cars sign down and call it "the Grand Canyon". Same would be for Avatar. They would be building floating islands. There really wouldn't be any way to re-theme it.

And as far as failing, this is still a business. It isn't as much that they're thinking it's going to fail as it is that they're safeguarding themselves in case it does, And it isn't this expansion we're talking about. It's the sequels (which disney has no control over).

 

[Skibum1970]

The construction timeframe is really going to be difficult to be patient with. Unless I'm mistaken, they put completion out three or four years. Figure the Cars Land and the MI Coaster (or whatever gets approved) will also take a few years to put together. So, UNI opens Transformers in 2013 and HP 2.0 in 2014/2015. WDW opens up their new rides in 2015 (at the earliest in my opinion) and 2016. Making these announcements are well and good but people judge by what's in front of them in the parks. I also don't think that this is a Potter Swatter, if Disney even intends it to be one. It is difficult to make a decision without seeing what the final product will be but I am not currently impressed. Particularly if they drop the coaster.

 

[Beholder]

Considering the relative inactivity that's been WDW for the last decade+, this is a struggle to get my head wrapped around. Nothing, then this explosion of rumors, projects, plans, and whatever else I've missed. Any chance that AK and DHS will/can have simultaneous construction? That would be a major opening. Two parks, two new attraction areas. Hard to imagine TDO ignoring the promotional opportunities this creates.

 

[JEANYLASER]

thanks for the 411! This will be awesome site to see!

 

[Beholder]

I whole-heartedly completely disagree with you on everything about what you're saying.

If you think the theming of RnR Coaster and the theming of RSR are the same thing, then it isn't worth even having the discussion with you.


Oh, and if you haven't noticed, RS isn't just a
"canyon" – the mountains look like cars. You can't
just simply take the Cars sign down and call it "the
Grand Canyon". Same would be for Avatar. They
would be building floating islands. There really
wouldn't be any way to re-theme it.


And as far as failing, this is still a business. It isn't
as much that they're thinking it's going to fail as it
is that they're safeguarding themselves in case it
does, And it isn't this expansion we're talking
about. It's the sequels (which disney has no control
over).

That's probably why the decision to bring RSR/Cars Land to the east is because it's a proven success. It's a specifically built attraction with very specific "show" and theme aspects. It would, I presume, be a much bigger risk spending that kind of money on an unknown, specialized ride than building something slightly more "generic" that could be re-imagined if necessary. I get your point, and it does makes sense, if I'm hearing you right.

 

[Bairstow]

I get where you're coming from.
I'm a huge coaster fan myself, and count Manta, Hulk, and Dueling Dragon Ice (last row) among my favorite attractions in Orlando.
However, I think Disney's making the right choice in not building many E-ticket rides that are too intense for a lot of riders.
On the bus to Orlando this time, I sat next to a couple going to Universal Studios, and they asked me whether they should go to Islands or the Studios themselves. I recommended Islands, of course, but when the guy told me he's unwilling to ride coasters I had to think about it for a bit. Take away both Dragons, Hulk, and Doom, and the value of Islands diminishes considerably. Disney, which appeals to a wider demographic than Islands and arguably Sea World, has to keep this in mind when spending their money on big attractions.

Still, if Disney were to finally build Excavator for Dinoland, or a Crystal Wing style coaster for Pandora, they would be excellent additions to Animal Kingdom.

Still my favorite piece of Disney concept art ever.
Dig the classic "therapod" pose the boy in the foreground is striking.

If Disney were smart, they'd build Exacavator behind Chester and Hester's now and have it open before Pandoraland, to ease the strain on the new land. Then, they would be able to close Dinosaur once Pandoraland is open and refurb it properly.

I think an Intamin Mega-Lite would be the perfect ride system. It's only a hair more thrilling than what's used in Everest, though a lot faster and probably more reliable.


And as for the Pandorland coaster...

 

[captainkidd]

This just in.....Not everyone likes roller coasters. I am sure there are quite a few people as pleased as punch that the current plans for Avatar Land do not have a coaster in it.

I wouldn't go that far. I'd say there are some that are indifferent, but pleased as punch? Why would they be? If there's a coaster and you don't like them, you simply don't go on it.

 

[wdwfan4ver]

So, they're about to start building this. I was excitied but I'm not anymore. I bet there's not a rollercoaster in this area. Without a coaster, this will be just another themed area with a simulator like the new fantasyland. Oh, the new fantasyland has a coaster but it's a family coaster :-/

wow, something great to look at, the theming of Pandora. Is anyone else sick of this? We get all this themeing but no rollercoaster. Disney always makes stuff for children but when are we going to get a great rollercoaster from disney like the hulk, or manta!? I don't think I'm going to renew my passes in a few months. There's not much there for adults. It's just a giant chuck e. cheese but with simulators. So tired of looking at a movie screen while sitting in a moving box. Where's the amazing themed rollercoasters that we know Disney can do here? They could make a Manta style rollercoaster but theme it around the dragons in Avatar, have it built around a mountain, canyon or grassy hills JUST LIKE IN AVATAR! If Disney built carsland in Orlando, that would be the coolest thing ever. That is a great ride.

I swear, I wish I could give the imagineers some direction so that they're not just making rides for children, but making them for ALL ages. Where's the Disney we use to ALL be able to enjoy?

:-/

I don't go on a lot of thrill rides and I not a thrill ride junky either. Not all Adults go on Coasters or thrill rides. Some adults are not big on going on big thrill rides or can't go on thrill rides at all due to stuff like a bad back, history of heart problems as examples. Disney's way of developing theme parks have been extremely successful and the attraction of Disney theme parks across the world are supposed to be for all ages.

I know adults in their late 50's who can't go on coasters like Hulk, or Manta because the nature of the medical problems they got. They got the type of medical problems that have warning on thrill rides for.

The 2nd thing is Coasters is pretty common outside of Disney a first place. I live less than a 100 miles away from a 6 flags and I live much farther away from a Disney theme park. I never been a big thrill ride junkie. People in the region I live in wouldn't be going to Walt Disney World or or any theme park in Florida for just going on Coasters because of cost.

 

[captainkidd]

Disney is not known for creating coasters like Manta or the Hulk, nor should they be. They are known for creating immersive experiences that try to be accessible to everyone, or at least large brackets of the visiting guest. I'll take a well themed, long and slow omnimover or traveling theatre frankly, immersive themed experience any day over a thrill ride - even one with equal theming. I love coasters as much as the next thrill seeker but they have nowhere near the same enjoyability or repeatability that a ride like the Haunted Mansion or Pirates has (not that Pandora will or won't have anything like them). If there must be thrill rides because the suits don't think non-thrill rides will bring people in than make them like Indy,TOT, and FJ. The less coasters in the world the better, even if they are heavily themed you don't get much out of them - everything whizzes by in a flash and they're definitely not enjoyable by all. Rides are most successful based on amazing special effects, scenery, and placemaking - things you see on the inside not how much your body moves on them. Anyway, that's what they should be.

Edit: I do agree that all theme parks have been placing a bit too much emphasis on screen based experiences, although I'm hoping that this is largely just a fad because the tech is new(er) and novel - and while it looks like one of the avatar rides is likely to be a simulator the idea of a boat ride through pandora is very intriguing.

This is an interesting point. Question is, should Disney broaden their horizons a bit? What is the harm in creating some really thrilling coasters? If you don't want to ride, then you don't have to, but it will certainly make the Universal crowd happy. They made Mission:Space, which makes half the people that ride it sick. Why not a couple Hulk-type coasters?

 

[JCtheparrothead]

Depends on the motion of the simulators.
If it is just a mini-soarin in 3-d.....meh.
If they can get a wide range of motion, real or simulated, in the same league as Potter.......much better.

The coaster was better.

Lee

What is the possibility that the Soarin type ride will be a combination of this link and a 3-d turtle trek theater?

http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/...ion-for-true-flight-simulator-vehicle.829729/

I could see a capacity issue with 1 theater but with 4 theaters (as the blueprints show) this might be something possible.

 

[real mad hatter]

I hate coasters!