Buh-bye Poly, hello Aulani?

tikiman

Well-Known Member
Actually looking back at my emails, they did mention some asbestos in the GCH that is also part of the problem. There is a lot of info going around at the Polynesian too and not everything is being told to everyone. They just say something big is being planned but they still don’t believe it has anything to do with taking down the longhouses and they say they will not close the whole resort to do it. I guess we will know more as time goes on.
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So in laymen's terms, just because Texas "said" they weren't part of the United States doesn't mean they actually weren't. They continued to be part of the United States. If Hawai'i wants to leave the United States, it will only come, as the Supreme Court states, "except through revolution or through consent of the States." Don't count on either happening anytime soon.
Not to keep this going, but the US Congress did not entirely follow this line of thinking. Following the war the former Confederate states had to be readmitted, not the most logical result if your argument is that the party could not and never did leave. West Virginia was also created without the consent of the Virginia state legislature (Article IV, Section 3, Paragraph 1), because the consent they gave, secession, is considered to not be a valid option. Even earlier, there was talk amongst New England Federalists of secession when Thomas jefferson became president, and this was amongst men who were contemporaries of the Constitution. Even the Constitution itself dissolved the union under the Articles of Confederation that the Constitutional Convention was supposed to strengthen and there was the very real possibility that the current United States would have begun its life without all 13 member states of the previous union under the Articles of Confederation. The Supreme Court has also reversed its own decisions, segregation was upheld by Plessy v. Ferguson in 1896 before being struck down by in Brown v. Board of Education 1954. How we would respond to a very popular state secession movement today may be very different than how it was handled in the past.
 

DVCOwner

A Long Time DVC Member
As an civil engineer that has work all my life in the field of build maintenance, I can tell you most commerical buildings constructed in the last 80 or so years where constructed to last for about 50 years. At that point renovations usally cost more than taking the building down on building new. The normal cycle is that a building built in 1971 would have a major renovation in about 25 years or around 1996. This happened with the Poly in about 2002. My guess is that there will be a replacement of the buildings sometime around 2021 to 2026. Unless Disney finds them to be of "historic" value to the park and is willing to spend more on renovation than replacement, the next renovation will included tearing the buildings down and rebuilding them to match or building of the "new" poly of a new design.

Remember that the reason DVC ownerships are for only 50 years is to keep the dues from having an annual amount placed into capital reserve for replacement of the buildings as required in lifetime ownerships.
 

flavious27

Well-Known Member
As an civil engineer that has work all my life in the field of build maintenance, I can tell you most commerical buildings constructed in the last 80 or so years where constructed to last for about 50 years. At that point renovations usally cost more than taking the building down on building new. The normal cycle is that a building built in 1971 would have a major renovation in about 25 years or around 1996. This happened with the Poly in about 2002. My guess is that there will be a replacement of the buildings sometime around 2021 to 2026. Unless Disney finds them to be of "historic" value to the park and is willing to spend more on renovation than replacement, the next renovation will included tearing the buildings down and rebuilding them to match or building of the "new" poly of a new design.

Remember that the reason DVC ownerships are for only 50 years is to keep the dues from having an annual amount placed into capital reserve for replacement of the buildings as required in lifetime ownerships.

I wonder about the conditions of the utildors then.
 

tikiman

Well-Known Member
As an civil engineer that has work all my life in the field of build maintenance, I can tell you most commerical buildings constructed in the last 80 or so years where constructed to last for about 50 years. At that point renovations usally cost more than taking the building down on building new. The normal cycle is that a building built in 1971 would have a major renovation in about 25 years or around 1996. This happened with the Poly in about 2002. My guess is that there will be a replacement of the buildings sometime around 2021 to 2026. Unless Disney finds them to be of "historic" value to the park and is willing to spend more on renovation than replacement, the next renovation will included tearing the buildings down and rebuilding them to match or building of the "new" poly of a new design.

Remember that the reason DVC ownerships are for only 50 years is to keep the dues from having an annual amount placed into capital reserve for replacement of the buildings as required in lifetime ownerships.

I agree with you that it might cost less just to take the buildings down just so they can upgrade everything like the electrical and HVAC as well as do a new design. Chances are the rooms would get a lot smaller since none of the newer resorts have rooms anywhere near the size of the original Contemporary and Polynesian rooms.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
The Polynesian wasn't frame construction. It used the same US Steel technique as the Contemporary. A steel frame and concrete pre-fab room "boxes" created off-site, trucked in and inserted into the framework. There were spaces that allowed for moisture to be held in the building allowing for the growth of mold. If I recall, and someone can correct me on this, they did work to successfully mitigate the mold issue, however some people say they can still smell it in certain areas of the older buildings.

EDIT:

I hadn't gotten this far when I posted the above.

Well I noticed this when the Disney Inn was new, specifically when walking in the hallways there is the effect of frame construction. It is as if the floors are plywood and certainly not steel or concrete. You can still notice this between the older sections of the SoG and the new sections. The new sections are definitely concrete floors and you don't get the hollow sound from the floors and also interior walls. The ambient noise is noticably reduced in the newer sections and everything is much more solidly built. Great quality. I noticed the same hollow effect at the poly. So while I don't doubt a lot of steel was used in the room "boxes" the hallways seem to be a different matter. At least in the original buildings.
 

jt04

Well-Known Member
I agree with you that it might cost less just to take the buildings down just so they can upgrade everything like the electrical and HVAC as well as do a new design. Chances are the rooms would get a lot smaller since none of the newer resorts have rooms anywhere near the size of the original Contemporary and Polynesian rooms.

Exactly! Plus by reconfiguring the resort they should be able to add substantially to the capacity of the resort.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Are you my sister?
She's the only other person I know who is not Hawaiian who pays this much attention to their culture. She lives in Orange County and is married to a native Hawaiian. He doesn't care as much about being a native as she does. So if you aren't her, check your neighbors because I bet she's close by!

I'm not your sister. I know this because I don't have a brother. And I only surf occasionally with a native Hawaiian, we aren't married. :D

The SoCal-Hawaii (Hawai'i) connection is a strong one. SoCal'ers vacation there in droves, Hawaiians love to come to OC and San Diego on vacation, and we get each others scene and culture. It's something that someone living in Virginia or Illinois or Massachussetts wouldn't understand, and if you've never been to Hawaii you probably just think it's grass huts and Don Ho sing-a-longs and luau dinner parties. It's not, it's a unique culture and way of life that has nothing to do with the Brady Bunch.

I imagine a lot of East Coasters and Midwesterners here had no idea there is a growing political/cultural movement in Hawaii to declare independence from the USA. Surprise! And a lot of folks there, even if they may not feel strongly enough to leave the union at this point for economic and geopolitical reasons, wish their grandparents hadn't agreed to become the 50th state.

Disney, for their part with Aulani, has tip-toed into this brewing socio-political environment with great care; thus the liberal application of local culture, religion, art and etiquette into the design and operation of Aulani. Disney doesn't go to all that trouble in Hilton Head or Vero Beach, that's for sure. They had to in Hawaii, to gain street cred with the locals and not be seen as carpetbaggers from the mainland like the other big hotel chains are now seen as.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
Beyond that aspect of the rumor, I really don't see anything happening to the Poly. It's just too popular to justify shutting down large portions of it at a time.

And yet, Disney is right now doing a similarly huge project with the 1,000 room and wildly popular Disneyland Hotel. Over a three year period they have shut down entire blocks of the three 15 story towers (all of them 50 to 30 years old!), gutted them to the steel girders and cement, and then rebuilt each room with new plumbing, windows and furnishings. New elevators, lobbies and common areas have also all been installed, all while the Disneyland Hotel continues to operate in a reduced format of 500 to 700 phased rooms.

They are working on the last tower now, what will become the Fantasyland Tower with the big lobby and entry complex for the 1,000 room hotel at its base. It's not pretty, but it had to be done to the aging hotel.

Disneyland Hotel ReConstruction 2011 - Fantasyland Tower
1213581228_LKf6K-L.jpg


The good news is that the Adventureland Tower is almost done, and it's getting a mod tiki bar and restaurant built next door! There's hope for Polynesian kitsch on Disney property yet! :lol:

Tangaroa Terrace under construction at Adventureland Tower
1255625516_sDXDmTm-L.jpg


So there at Disneyland they are proving it's entirely possible to radically rebuild and retheme an existing and aged hotel property while keeping it in business. If anything, I would think a similar project at the Poly would be much easier because the rooms are broken up into blocks in a half dozen separate buildings. It would be easier to cordon off a building or two at a time and just go at it, while the rest of the resort operates as normal. Such a project timeline for the Poly would probably be like the Disneyland Hotel, where work began in 2009 and won't end completely until Spring 2012.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
I'm not your sister. I know this because I don't have a brother. And I only surf occasionally with a native Hawaiian, we aren't married. :D

The SoCal-Hawaii (Hawai'i) connection is a strong one. SoCal'ers vacation there in droves, Hawaiians love to come to OC and San Diego on vacation, and we get each others scene and culture. It's something that someone living in Virginia or Illinois or Massachussetts wouldn't understand, and if you've never been to Hawaii you probably just think it's grass huts and Don Ho sing-a-longs and luau dinner parties. It's not, it's a unique culture and way of life that has nothing to do with the Brady Bunch.

I imagine a lot of East Coasters and Midwesterners here had no idea there is a growing political/cultural movement in Hawaii to declare independence from the USA. Surprise! And a lot of folks there, even if they may not feel strongly enough to leave the union at this point for economic and geopolitical reasons, wish their grandparents hadn't agreed to become the 50th state.

Disney, for their part with Aulani, has tip-toed into this brewing socio-political environment with great care; thus the liberal application of local culture, religion, art and etiquette into the design and operation of Aulani. Disney doesn't go to all that trouble in Hilton Head or Vero Beach, that's for sure. They had to in Hawaii, to gain street cred with the locals and not be seen as carpetbaggers from the mainland like the other big hotel chains are now seen as.

I know disparaging anyone not refined enough to live in fabulous SoCal is seemingly a hobby of yours, but it does become tiresome. Surprise! There are intelligent and affluent folks who live outside the borders of the OC. Shockingly, us yokels out East (and even in those incest laden Midwest states!) manage to engage in many of the same social activities, have access to the same news, and have similarly situated economic classes.

We don't all sit on couches on our porches, barefoot and wearing cut-off overalls as we sip moonshine from growlers labeled "XXX". It's almost ironic that you accuse the Polynesian of not accurately representing Hawaiian culture when you so frequently mis-characterize states east of the Mississippi.

I say this as politely as possible, as I really appreciate a lot of the content and thoughtfulness you put into your posts, but your pompous attitude is abundantly clear in the majority of your posts. You're more than welcome to think you're better than everyone else here--but it would certainly be appreciated if that attitude didn't permeate through almost all of your posts.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
I say this as politely as possible, as I really appreciate a lot of the content and thoughtfulness you put into your posts, but your pompous attitude is abundantly clear in the majority of your posts. You're more than welcome to think you're better than everyone else here--but it would certainly be appreciated if that attitude didn't permeate through almost all of your posts.

Okay... I had to re-read my last post, afraid I'd phrased something the wrong way. :confused:

I'm afraid my true sentiment just isn't coming through via typed text. It's not a "SoCal is better" or "Hawaii is better" thing, it's just that they are different. That's all, just different. Maybe it would help if I explained that I've actually lived a majority of my life outside of SoCal and OC, in over a dozen different states in all three time zones? I can think fondly on all sorts of regional differences that I experienced in all of those homes I had in those states.

And I can also dish on a half dozen topics off the top of my head regarding cultural things that are done poorly or stupidly here in SoCal, although I don't think I've ever dished on things actually done "stupidly" in those other regions on this message board. SoCal ain't all sweetness and light and Botoxed housewives, as you know since you have visited here.

And for the record, there are a gazillion fun and unique things people do in Massachussetts or Virginia or Illinois that someone who lived their whole live in San Diego would never get, and is worse off for it. :wave:
 

The Mom

Moderator
Premium Member
Any further discussion about how the average born and bred Hawiian feels towards the "rest" of the US will turn very political, so let's not go there. Thank you.
 

menamechris

Well-Known Member
So..I just read through this entire thread. Whew! And one word comes to mind - outlandish. Regardless of any reasoning or political tip-toeing that may be done by the Disney Company in any area of the world - they will never change a formula that is working in another. The Poly is clearly one of - if not the - most popular resort at WDW. They will no sooner re-theme the Polynesian than they will rip out It's A Small World to remove all of its stereotypical references...
 

lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
So..I just read through this entire thread. Whew! And one word comes to mind - outlandish. Regardless of any reasoning or political tip-toeing that may be done by the Disney Company in any area of the world - they will never change a formula that is working in another. The Poly is clearly one of - if not the - most popular resort at WDW. They will no sooner re-theme the Polynesian than they will rip out It's A Small World to remove all of its stereotypical references...
A rethemeing does not really play into whether or not they would consider tearing down the existing resort buildings to replace them with larger buildings that would be either all or at least partially part of the Disney vacation Club (the original point). The popularity of the resort would be why Disney would consider finding a means of increasing capacity and the popularity of the Disney Vacation Club at existing hotels would be why they would want to add such accommodations.
 

menamechris

Well-Known Member
A rethemeing does not really play into whether or not they would consider tearing down the existing resort buildings to replace them with larger buildings that would be either all or at least partially part of the Disney vacation Club (the original point). The popularity of the resort would be why Disney would consider finding a means of increasing capacity and the popularity of the Disney Vacation Club at existing hotels would be why they would want to add such accommodations.

I must be missing something. The topic has been overwhelmingly whether the Polynesian should be rethemed and a clone of the DVC in Hawaii. Not necessarily a debate about whether DVC additions would be welcome there..
 

stratman50th

Well-Known Member
Any further discussion about how the average born and bred Hawiian feels towards the "rest" of the US will turn very political, so let's not go there. Thank you.
Damn!
She answered me overnight and now I can't respond. :(
If you all only new my sister you'd understand.....................
 

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