Buh-bye Poly, hello Aulani?

[ob1thx1138]

The point I was making was that even if they tore down the GCH and rebuilt it, it would probably still include the large fountain and general lay out used now. Redecorating to fit a more realistic Polynesian culture is completely possible, but I could also see them sticking with the tiki room feel. The only things I was talking about using from Aulani were the interactive features that have been mentioned in descriptions of the resort such as the interactive paintings on the Dream which I hear will be included in Aulani.

 

[TP2000]

^I think you give Disney guests way too much credit, and you also assume that Disney actually cares about the perception of the resort.

....In other words, I don't see Aulani impacting the Polynesian in any way whatsoever.

Perhaps it won't.

I just happen to have a surfing buddy who is native Hawaiian who brought up a thoughtful discussion on the sovereignty issue at a dinner party recently, and I vacation there occasionally and I've seen the sovereignty movement gain steam in the past few years. And then you see how Disney is tripping over themselves to layer Aulani with traditional local culture and values (right down to extra apostrophes in the place names) instead of just grass thatching and tiki torches everywhere, and I'm now of the opinion that something is up with the Polynesian Resort if the big rehab rumors are true.

All that said, if the Poly needs a big rehab, it may re-emerge from that rehab as an even kitschier and over-the-top themed version of its 1971 self. Just look at what they are doing at the Disneyland Hotel with the new Tangaroa Terrace restaurant and bar. The Disneyland Hotel's Tangaroa Terrace will be the Anti-Aulani with a very purposeful mid-century modern vibe of what the average Disneyland tourist circa 1962 would have thought a hip Polynesian night spot would look like. :lol:

But if a big rehab and/or tear down is really coming to the Polynesian, I think they have to go one of two directions with it. Either they go the Aulani route and really layer on all the culturally significant features they learned setting up shop on Oahu (or even O'ahu), or they go the wacky retro route and pretend it's an homage to every swingin' tiki lounge of the 1960's.

Personally, I hope they go with the retro 60's thing for the Poly. Central Florida lacks the stunning geography, unique culture, and gorgeous flora and fauna that make Hawaii so special, so they should just go with the retro theme and not pretend to be authentically Hawaiian.

 

[Scuttle]

Really Thats a cool fact where did you find that out??:veryconfu

I stand corrected. I remember the cast member on the boat ride from fort wilderness told us that story about FW being an opening day resort, but I guess he got his facts messed up.

 

[jt04]

^I think you give Disney guests way too much credit, and you also assume that Disney actually cares about the perception of the resort.

Like many things Disney does, the product (the Polynesian Resort) is a cheeky caricature of reality. Most guests probably don't realize this, and assume the Poly is how Hawaii actually is (after all, Hawaii has been portrayed that way in pop culture). If you portray Hawaii in a sense that's actually representative of the culture, people may find less allure in the product. Reality doesn't matter as much as perception, and my bet is that the unrealistic Hawaii as is portrayed by the Poly is the perceived Hawaii for most guests. Most people who do understand that's not how things actually are, are astute enough to realize that much of Disney is a caricature of reality, and don't really care about authenticity.

Which brings us to the second point. If my above bet is true, why on earth would Disney spend money (unnecessarily) to make changes to the resort? Costly changes that would--potentially--be bad for business.

In other words, I don't see Aulani impacting the Polynesian in any way whatsoever.

We actually agree except for that last sentence. I could see them cloning the resort with modifications to fit the configuration into the poly location.

If they shave off floors they shave off the number of rooms, Aulani has less rooms already. They will need to change the amount of villas to regular rooms, which will add a cost for the engineers to rework the design and make sure that the facilities can handle that change. It will be a huge cost for disney to do this while also taking 800+ deluxe rooms off the market for 2+ years. They might as well just build a new deluxe hotel on the plot of land just north of gf.

There is a way, as I explained earlier, to trasition the resort to look and function more like Aulani and not lose capacity in the process. I can't make any sense of your first sentence. What? Please explain.

 

[WDWFigment]

Perhaps it won't.

I just happen to have a surfing buddy who is native Hawaiian who brought up a thoughtful discussion on the sovereignty issue at a dinner party recently, and I vacation there occasionally and I've seen the sovereignty movement gain steam in the past few years. And then you see how Disney is tripping over themselves to layer Aulani with traditional local culture and values (right down to extra apostrophes in the place names) instead of just grass thatching and tiki torches everywhere, and I'm now of the opinion that something is up with the Polynesian Resort if the big rehab rumors are true.

All that said, if the Poly needs a big rehab, it may re-emerge from that rehab as an even kitschier and over-the-top themed version of its 1971 self. Just look at what they are doing at the Disneyland Hotel with the new Tangaroa Terrace restaurant and bar. The Disneyland Hotel's Tangaroa Terrace will be the Anti-Aulani with a very purposeful mid-century modern vibe of what the average Disneyland tourist circa 1962 would have thought a hip Polynesian night spot would look like. :lol:

But if a big rehab and/or tear down is really coming to the Polynesian, I think they have to go one of two directions with it. Either they go the Aulani route and really layer on all the culturally significant features they learned setting up shop on Oahu (or even O'ahu), or they go the wacky retro route and pretend it's an homage to every swingin' tiki lounge of the 1960's.

Personally, I hope they go with the retro 60's thing for the Poly. Central Florida lacks the stunning geography, unique culture, and gorgeous flora and fauna that make Hawaii so special, so they should just go with the retro theme and not pretend to be authentically Hawaiian.

The reason Disney is likely 'tripping over' itself to make Aulani authentic is because it's actually located in Hawaii. Hawaiians will work there, see and form opinions about it, etc. Even if Hawaiians are not the primary audience, there is still great value in making an authentic product that is more pleasing to them.

Likewise, guests to Hawaii are, in general, probably more astute as to Hawaiian culture than are guests to Walt Disney World. Thus, there is more demand there for the authentic experience rather than the idealized or sanitized one. While there is only one Fantasyland-proper at WDW, isn't it all a fantasyland, to a certain degree?

Beyond that aspect of the rumor, I really don't see anything happening to the Poly. It's just too popular to justify shutting down large portions of it at a time. Now, I could see shutting down two buildings if it meant replacing them with a much larger DVC structure that would quickly recoup the lost revenue. A shutdown due to asbestos or a simple retheming? No way.

Personally, I think it's about time Disney finally dusts off some of the plans for the unbuilt properties on the Seven Seas Lagoon. In my mind, this is the best real estate on which to expand as there is demand for these resorts. Stop building plain properties out in no-man's land that really have no special allure (I'm looking at you, Saratoga Springs), and focus on properties that will have greater demand (kudos on Art of Animation). Given their proximity to the Magic Kingdom, anything on the SSL automatically has at least one advantage. Add a nice theme, and you've got two selling points. DVC and resort expansion should be means to fund substantive attraction expansion in the parks, so I see any objections on those grounds unpersuasive. I also think that more resorts on the SSL would look better (after all, you don't see people complaining that there are two many World Showcase pavilions at Epcot), not worse, as some have contended.

 

[jt04]

The reason Disney is likely 'tripping over' itself to make Aulani authentic is because it's actually located in Hawaii. Hawaiians will work there, see and form opinions about it, etc. Even if Hawaiians are not the primary audience, there is still great value in making an authentic product that is more pleasing to them.

Likewise, guests to Hawaii are, in general, probably more astute as to Hawaiian culture than are guests to Walt Disney World. Thus, there is more demand there for the authentic experience rather than the idealized or sanitized one. While there is only one Fantasyland-proper at WDW, isn't it all a fantasyland, to a certain degree?

Beyond that aspect of the rumor, I really don't see anything happening to the Poly. It's just too popular to justify shutting down large portions of it at a time. Now, I could see shutting down two buildings if it meant replacing them with a much larger DVC structure that would quickly recoup the lost revenue. A shutdown due to asbestos or a simple retheming? No way.

Personally, I think it's about time Disney finally dusts off some of the plans for the unbuilt properties on the Seven Seas Lagoon. In my mind, this is the best real estate on which to expand as there is demand for these resorts. Stop building plain properties out in no-man's land that really have no special allure (I'm looking at you, Saratoga Springs), and focus on properties that will have greater demand (kudos on Art of Animation). Given their proximity to the Magic Kingdom, anything on the SSL automatically has at least one advantage. Add a nice theme, and you've got two selling points. DVC and resort expansion should be means to fund substantive attraction expansion in the parks, so I see any objections on those grounds unpersuasive. I also think that more resorts on the SSL would look better (after all, you don't see people complaining that there are two many World Showcase pavilions at Epcot), not worse, as some have contended.

Agreed, and the World Showcase comparrison is perfect. The reason I take the poly rumor seriously is that it broke on the Disney Gossip blog. At least that is the first I had heard. And whoever runs that site has a pretty good track record. It is only updated a few times a year but it has proven accurate.

 

[flavious27]

We actually agree except for that last sentence. I could see them cloning the resort with modifications to fit the configuration into the poly location.



There is a way, as I explained earlier, to trasition the resort to look and function more like Aulani and not lose capacity in the process. I can't make any sense of your first sentence. What? Please explain.

Aulani has less guest rooms already than poly. If disney goes with a 10 story version of this resort, it will have even less rooms than poly. If they want to maintain the number of guest rooms, they would need to change the design to include more regular hotel rooms and less villas.

Anyway you cut it though, this would be a huge diversion of funds that could be used to create a completely new theme. Also, having poly closed down will be a large hit on the hotel and restaurant revenue streams. It would be hard to justify that expense if the only issue concerns the gch. There are many solutions that disney can use to keep the resort open, while moving gch's functions around the poly resort.

 

[tikiman]

Everything I've read said it opened October 1, 1971 which is Opening Day for the Magic Kingdom and Walt Disney World.

The Polynesian not only opened on the 1st but officially it opened before the Contemporary. The Contemporary was having some issues with its opening day and all the press for the opening event were switched over to the Polynesian because they were ready to open.

 

[flavious27]

Agreed, and the World Showcase comparrison is perfect. The reason I take the poly rumor seriously is that it broke on the Disney Gossip blog. At least that is the first I had heard. And whoever runs that site has a pretty good track record. It is only updated a few times a year but it has proven accurate.

Didn't they distance themselves from that rumor?

The resort is 40 years old, well 39.5, they have renovated the rooms and the gch over the years. Any asbestos would have been found and removed if needed over the last 20 years when disney started to remove asbestos at the parks.

 

[ryguy]

Why wasn't the asbestos problem dealt with during the 2007 refurb? Weren't all the rooms gutted? This was a major refurbishment not just new paint and bedspreads.
Also this would be some project, its not like tearing down a wing at the contemporary. It would take several years to complete from start to finish. I can't see Disney closing the whole resort at the same time. It doesn't make much business sense. The only way I see this rumor coming to light is if the EPA has told Disney that the buildings are unsafe and have to be torn down.

Are guests or workers getting sick from the asbestos? If not why would Disney feel the need to do anything? I mean the resort has been functioning for 39 years with no apparent "health problems" (I could be wrong about that). Half of NY city buildings have to have asbestos how do they deal with the problem? I don't think there imploding every building that has the stuff in it. I am sure there is a way to do deal with the asbestos without demolishing buildings.

Can you tell I don't buy this silly rumor::lol:

 

[stratman50th]

I always had the feeling the Poly was mostly frame construction as was the Disney Inn when it opened. You could tell just walking through the place. Considering how long many of the buildings have been there, their never ceasing use and the type construction, it is likely they are reaching the end of their lifespan. If mold and asbestos are present then they would have litttle choice but to replace them. And they don't build resorts the same way anymore. Now they are mostly conrete block or poured concrete. In other words, built to last.

The Polynesian wasn't frame construction. It used the same US Steel technique as the Contemporary. A steel frame and concrete pre-fab room "boxes" created off-site, trucked in and inserted into the framework. There were spaces that allowed for moisture to be held in the building allowing for the growth of mold. If I recall, and someone can correct me on this, they did work to successfully mitigate the mold issue, however some people say they can still smell it in certain areas of the older buildings.

EDIT:

Despite what you could "just tell," Poly construction is identical to the original wings of the Contemporary--steel frames with slide-in modular-constructed rooms. Both were pet projects of U.S. Steel.

I hadn't gotten this far when I posted the above.

 

[tikiman]

I won’t argue how authentic the Polynesian is or is not with most people that have never been to a pacific island in their like (not saying everyone in this discussion fits into that category) but they have worked hard since the 90’s to bring more authenticity to the resort including bringing in people from Hawaii to redesign and get rid of what was done in the 70’s. There is almost nothing left of the decor that was introduced on opening day.

As far as the rumor of the resort being torn down, people I know at the Polynesian said there is no truth to that other than there are some issues with the GCH and they are looking at the logistics of how to take that down and rebuild it. From what I remember they removed all asbestos from the rooms in 2002. You can see photos on my history pages of the rooms gutted. http://www.tikimanpages.com/tiki/polynesian-history/aughts
I was also told many times over the years that the Polynesian was looked at for DVC and it was determined that it was not possible and they are not going to consider it at this point.

Aulani does have the problem of Disney trying to bring Hawaii to Hawaii and I am not sure how I feel about the resort yet but I am willing to give it a try. I am going on a tour of the grounds in a few weeks to see how it is going and we have been working with them on some good rates for a group next year. I have been traveling to the islands since I was a kid and I don’t prefer O’ahu myself but maybe Disney will attract a group to Hawaii that had never gone before.

 

[stratman50th]

Perhaps it won't.

I just happen to have a surfing buddy who is native Hawaiian who brought up a thoughtful discussion on the sovereignty issue at a dinner party recently, and I vacation there occasionally and I've seen the sovereignty movement gain steam in the past few years. And then you see how Disney is tripping over themselves to layer Aulani with traditional local culture and values (right down to extra apostrophes in the place names) instead of just grass thatching and tiki torches everywhere, and I'm now of the opinion that something is up with the Polynesian Resort if the big rehab rumors are true.

All that said, if the Poly needs a big rehab, it may re-emerge from that rehab as an even kitschier and over-the-top themed version of its 1971 self. Just look at what they are doing at the Disneyland Hotel with the new Tangaroa Terrace restaurant and bar. The Disneyland Hotel's Tangaroa Terrace will be the Anti-Aulani with a very purposeful mid-century modern vibe of what the average Disneyland tourist circa 1962 would have thought a hip Polynesian night spot would look like. :lol:

But if a big rehab and/or tear down is really coming to the Polynesian, I think they have to go one of two directions with it. Either they go the Aulani route and really layer on all the culturally significant features they learned setting up shop on Oahu (or even O'ahu), or they go the wacky retro route and pretend it's an homage to every swingin' tiki lounge of the 1960's.

Personally, I hope they go with the retro 60's thing for the Poly. Central Florida lacks the stunning geography, unique culture, and gorgeous flora and fauna that make Hawaii so special, so they should just go with the retro theme and not pretend to be authentically Hawaiian.

Are you my sister?
She's the only other person I know who is not Hawaiian who pays this much attention to their culture. She lives in Orange County and is married to a native Hawaiian. He doesn't care as much about being a native as she does. So if you aren't her, check your neighbors because I bet she's close by!

 

[flavious27]

The reason Disney is likely 'tripping over' itself to make Aulani authentic is because it's actually located in Hawaii. Hawaiians will work there, see and form opinions about it, etc. Even if Hawaiians are not the primary audience, there is still great value in making an authentic product that is more pleasing to them.

Likewise, guests to Hawaii are, in general, probably more astute as to Hawaiian culture than are guests to Walt Disney World. Thus, there is more demand there for the authentic experience rather than the idealized or sanitized one. While there is only one Fantasyland-proper at WDW, isn't it all a fantasyland, to a certain degree?

Beyond that aspect of the rumor, I really don't see anything happening to the Poly. It's just too popular to justify shutting down large portions of it at a time. Now, I could see shutting down two buildings if it meant replacing them with a much larger DVC structure that would quickly recoup the lost revenue. A shutdown due to asbestos or a simple retheming? No way.

Personally, I think it's about time Disney finally dusts off some of the plans for the unbuilt properties on the Seven Seas Lagoon. In my mind, this is the best real estate on which to expand as there is demand for these resorts. Stop building plain properties out in no-man's land that really have no special allure (I'm looking at you, Saratoga Springs), and focus on properties that will have greater demand (kudos on Art of Animation). Given their proximity to the Magic Kingdom, anything on the SSL automatically has at least one advantage. Add a nice theme, and you've got two selling points. DVC and resort expansion should be means to fund substantive attraction expansion in the parks, so I see any objections on those grounds unpersuasive. I also think that more resorts on the SSL would look better (after all, you don't see people complaining that there are two many World Showcase pavilions at Epcot), not worse, as some have contended.

I agree that there needs to be development around seven seas lagoon, it is the most logical location.

The lot north of the GF is 40 acres, which would be large enough for a resort. I would like to see disney build a hotel resort that would be fashioned to in colonial architecture and setup in the same manner as the FG at PO.

The site of the venetian/mediterranean is about 45 acres, disney needs to find a way to utilize the site. They could have a swiss/alps village theme, so there is not a need for taller structures.

 

[flavious27]

Why wasn't the asbestos problem dealt with during the 2007 refurb? Weren't all the rooms gutted? This was a major refurbishment not just new paint and bedspreads.
Also this would be some project, its not like tearing down a wing at the contemporary. It would take several years to complete from start to finish. I can't see Disney closing the whole resort at the same time. It doesn't make much business sense. The only way I see this rumor coming to light is if the EPA has told Disney that the buildings are unsafe and have to be torn down.

Are guests or workers getting sick from the asbestos? If not why would Disney feel the need to do anything? I mean the resort has been functioning for 39 years with no apparent "health problems" (I could be wrong about that). Half of NY city buildings have to have asbestos how do they deal with the problem? I don't think there imploding every building that has the stuff in it. I am sure there is a way to do deal with the asbestos without demolishing buildings.

Can you tell I don't buy this silly rumor::lol:

I think that it matters what the extent of the use of asbestos is at poly and what needs to be removed. The original longhouses are steel shells, they could just gut each of the buildings one at a time. It also matters if the contemporary tower has the same problem because they used the same building technique.

 

[tikiman]

I think that it matters what the extent of the use of asbestos is at poly and what needs to be removed. The original longhouses are steel shells, they could just gut each of the buildings one at a time. It also matters if the contemporary tower has the same problem because they used the same building technique.

They gutted them in 2002.

 

[ob1thx1138]

The asbestos thing is not an issue that would cause them to tear down the building. even if they demolish the building the asbestos has to come out first so it would be the same amount of work mitigating the asbestos either way. I am not familiar with mold so I cant comment on that issue.

With asbestos it is not a concern until it is disturbed and becomes airborne, so simply demolishing or imploding the building would scatter the stuff everywhere. It has to be taken out in a controlled manner, however having said that, they could simply barricade off small areas and remove the asbestos with the building still being occupied. But like someone else said it was ripped out already so it should not be an issue.

 

[flavious27]

They gutted them in 2002.

I thought so. So the only problem could be the gch, which isn't a complete disaster.

 

[Scrooge18]

Tikiman - What are the issues with the GCH that they would need to possibly take it down and then rebuild it?

 

[tikiman]

Tikiman - What are the issues with the GCH that they would need to possibly take it down and then rebuild it?

Well they did not mention asbestos but they have some internal issues that include a mold problem that they feel the whole thing of most of it must come down. They are trying to figure out how to move check-in and open up places like the old Tangaroa Terrace for food and maybe serve lunch at the pool bar and luau but they don't ahve a lot of details and I don't believe it is happening any time soon.

They say that this is the only planned major work. I know they are planning on redesigning the suites also but not to take down the building.