Breaking News...Fifth Gate

[Tom]

DHS is land locked. The land above it is undevelopable. See my monorail plan because it addresses that problem.

Nothing there is "undevelopable". Much of it would be unfeasible to develop, but not impossible. The entire place was built on "undevelopable" land, successfully opened in 1971, and is still standing today.

DHS can expand, but it would make far greater sense to replace what's in the southwest corner of the park with something new.

 

[PeterAlt]

Phased closings of what? Why would you CLOSE anything at the other 4 parks? They need to be expanded and have their current assets upgraded, refurbished or replaced. Nothing needs to be reduced.

WDW does not need a fifth park when they can't even maintain the four they have, or keep them relevant.

I meant attractions or sections for redo.

Nothing there is "undevelopable". Much of it would be unfeasible to develop, but not impossible. The entire place was built on "undevelopable" land, successfully opened in 1971, and is still standing today.

DHS can expand, but it would make far greater sense to replace what's in the southwest corner of the park with something new.

Please see http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/epcot-resorts-cancelled-monorail-loop.862722/page-3#post-5418299

 

[Tom]

I meant attractions or sections for redo.

Please see http://forums.wdwmagic.com/threads/epcot-resorts-cancelled-monorail-loop.862722/page-3#post-5418299

Your link doesn't really address my comment, but OK.

I'm still interested in seeing proof, via blueprint or photo, of the supposed monorail footings they buried in 1982.

 

[PeterAlt]

Your link doesn't really address my comment, but OK.

I'm still interested in seeing proof, via blueprint or photo, of the supposed monorail footings they buried in 1982.

I superimposed the EPCOT blueprint that shows the easterly spur from FW over a satellite image, matching up the buildings and roads exactly. You can see that the footer (seen in the satellite imagery) is directly in the path of the easterly spur on the blue print. I have this saved in my Google Earth on my PC. I will take a screen shot of it later today and post it. I'm taking a break from image work this moment, but I swear that will be the first thing on my list of things to do when I go back to my PC (I'm on my iPad right now).

 

[JenniferS]

Should I dare ask? Okay, I'm asking...

What is drivel and what is is doing here in this thread? Should the drivel police be informed? Or should I not worry about it?

Drivel -
Noun
Silly nonsense: "don't talk such drivel!".
Verb
Talk nonsense: "he was driveling on about the glory days".
Synonyms
noun. nonsense - slobber - slaver - piffle
verb. drool - dribble - slobber

I do believe the nonsense police have weighed in unanimously on this one.

 

[PeterAlt]

I bet between all of us, we have ideas that Disney's transportation engineers haven't thought of. It's a mistake on their part not to have Imagineering tasked with coming up with a transportation plan that ties all of WDW into a comprehensive fixed guideway system. The approach so far (in recent years) has been using transportation expects to study it. That's nice, but these experts are going to apply traditional methods to the problem. Imagineers will be creative and think outside the box. Maybe the Imagineers and transportation experts should work as a team and come up with a sound plan that's also creative.

My plan is full of creativity, such as the use of parking structures that double as intermodal centers and cash-flow developments that can also be used to extend and support the system.

It may not be perfect. We can tweak it until its as close to perfect as we can get it. We can ask Bombardier for an estimate on its costs and their professional input (if they are willing to contribute this at no cost). We can ask them to present this to Disney as an unsolicited offer. Disney would be foolish not to study it. What's in it for Bombardier? Well, they get new business if Disney accepts the offer.

We can also remind Bombardier that they purchased the monorail technology from Disney; and, if it weren't for Disney, they wouldn't have this technology to sell. Adding to that, sure, you own it now - fair and square - and inventing it doesn't entitle Disney any special privileges to it (because it's no longer theirs), but millions of people visit WDW from all over the globe. If WDW were to have the flagship monorail system using YOUR technology, potential new customers EVERYWHERE could see this technology firsthand and recommend BOMBARDIER for when they return home! Therefore, we ask, when calculating the cost of the proposal, that a fair, discounted low cost is figured into the equation. The lower the cost estimate, the more likely Disney will agree to the proposed terms. The more likely Disney agrees to those terms, the more likely the flagship Bombardier monorail system would get built for millions to see each year from around the world - people whom could potentially recommend a Bombardier monorail system to their local city councils.

 

[Hakunamatata]

We can also remind Bombardier that they purchased the monorail technology from Disney; and, if it weren't for Disney, they wouldn't have this technology to sell. Adding to that, sure, you own it now - fair and square - and inventing it doesn't entitle Disney any special privileges to it (because it's no longer theirs), but millions of people visit WDW from all over the globe. If WDW were to have the flagship monorail system using YOUR technology, potential new customers EVERYWHERE could see this technology firsthand and recommend BOMBARDIER for when they return home! Therefore, we ask, when calculating the cost of the proposal, that a fair, discounted low cost is figured into the equation. The lower the cost estimate, the more likely Disney will agree to the proposed terms. The more likely Disney agrees to those terms, the more likely the flagship Bombardier monorail system would get built for millions to see each year from around the world - people whom could potentially recommend a Bombardier monorail system to their local city councils.

Good luck with that.

Please don't post more pics.

 

[marni1971]

I superimposed the EPCOT blueprint that shows the easterly spur from FW over a satellite image, matching up the buildings and roads exactly. You can see that the footer (seen in the satellite imagery) is directly in the path of the easterly spur on the blue print. I have this saved in my Google Earth on my PC. I will take a screen shot of it later today and post it. I'm taking a break from image work this moment, but I swear that will be the first thing on my list of things to do when I go back to my PC (I'm on my iPad right now).

I'm trying to get my head round this... You have a circa 1980/1 satellite image showing a footer?

 

[danlb_2000]

Your link doesn't really address my comment, but OK.

I'm still interested in seeing proof, via blueprint or photo, of the supposed monorail footings they buried in 1982.

He can correct me if I am wrong, but I think he is referring to this:

Here are some close ups of it. This can still be seen in satellite photos today.

 

[Hakunamatata]

He can correct me if I am wrong, but I think he is referring to this:

Here are some close ups of it. This can still be seen in satellite photos today.

Given that this "footing" is clearly back stage, where else on property does the monorail run through backstage areas? I don't think this is a footing.

 

[PeterAlt]

He can correct me if I am wrong, but I think he is referring to this:

Here are some close ups of it. This can still be seen in satellite photos today.

Yes, that's precisely it. I haven't seen the one that close up showing the pylon placeholder. Wow!

 

[wm49rs]

He can correct me if I am wrong, but I think he is referring to this:

Here are some close ups of it. This can still be seen in satellite photos today.

I've seen those posted before. And I believe someone else said they looked like drainage sites....

 

[marni1971]

Yes, that's precisely it. I haven't seen the one that close up showing the pylon placeholder. Wow!

It's not a footer.

 

[PeterAlt]

Given that this "footing" is clearly back stage, where else on property does the monorail run through backstage areas? I don't think this is a footing.

It is. Compare it to other footers that are in use from construction photos and they're exact matches. Dimensions and everything. Plus the spacing requirements are precisely where it should be. I also have EPCOT construction photos showing them burying it. All of this plus the EPCOT blue prints that show the easterly spur are posted on my main monorail thread.

 

[marni1971]

That's a utility pad, not a monorail pad. Can you post the photo you mention of footers being buried please?

If need be I could be able to obtain a photo of the area in question within a few days.

 

[PeterAlt]

It's not a footer.

Then why does it match up precisely with the EPCOT blue prints that show that is where it's supposed to be? Why are the dimensions the same as other known and used footers throughout the property?

 

[marni1971]

Then why does it match up precisely with the EPCOT blue prints that show that is where it's supposed to be? Why are the dimensions the same as other known and used footers throughout the property?

You tell me!

I've not found any blueprints showing this monorail line. And I've quite a few. I have got vague impressions showing the general line, but no actual architectural diagrams showing it came anywhere near being built.

Believe me, I'd like to know as much as you.

 

[danlb_2000]

By the way, off the record, me thinks that if this has nothing to do with Flamingo Crossing, it does make the ideal location for a park... Just saying! And those shapes really do look suspiciously designed like a theme park...

In other words, who really knows but the people who know?

I checked the plans for Flaming Crossing on the SFWMD web site and the cleared area just to the right of the Tram-Bus label and the little dirt road connecting to paved roads to the right was part of the Flamingo Crossing Phase 1 construction. It's refered to as a "Compensating Storage Area" in the plans. Maybe Tom can tell us what that actually means. I think the shapes you are seeing are naturally forming, especially ones in the area label Central Plaza. If you look at the topographical maps of the area a you can see that a lot of those shapes are caused by changes in elevation.

 

[PeterAlt]

Back to Fifth Gate for a moment, I have a feeling this is where the night park was supposed be that Jim Hill wrote about several times. I'm going to get a hold of those designs and see if they match the patterns I see on the property. If it does match without a shadow of a doubt, MODERATORS, do I have your permission to break this as news?

 

[PeterAlt]

You tell me!

I've not found any blueprints showing this monorail line. And I've quite a few. I have got vague impressions showing the general line, but no actual architectural diagrams showing it came anywhere near being built.

Believe me, I'd like to know as much as you.

I posted it a few weeks ago in my main monorail thread.