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lazyboy97o

Well-Known Member
Correct. Which is also a problem. When people are unable to get everything done they want to do it amplifies the crowds and wait and times in their heads and decreases the perceived value of their experience.
Which is why it’s important to not deliberately create crowding. To have the capacity and options available to people that they have a full day and shift perception to having so much available, not just enough that takes way too long.
 

fgmnt

Well-Known Member
It would thin crowds but it also would cost money and wouldn't provide much benefit to Disney management. They make more money when they're squeezing more people in with less to build, operate, and maintain - especially now that they're monetizing the waits with G+ and ILL.

The only thing that I think is going to change that is guest satisfaction dipping low enough to hurt their margins and then they'll feel like the have no choice but to respond.

When is the last time WDPR committed to proactive development of the Orlando parks--developing attractions not to meet an unmet need, fixing a known problem in a park, or a perceived reactions to imbalances between the gates or losing out on another opportunity?

Everything in EPCOT planned or opened in the last half decade is reactive to a park that had not seen a new attraction built since... Soarin?
Toy Story Mania, Galaxy's Edge, and Pandora were all built with a perception of creating new attractions to incomplete feeling, underdeveloped parks.
NFL was built as a reaction to a capacity crisis at Magic Kingdom.
Is it Toy Story Mania or Everest, or would those be reactions to underdeveloped parks?
Is it Soarin'?
Is it something even older? Sunset Blvd? Wonders of Life? Splash Mountain?

They like having everyone think they have to play catch-up.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Which is why it’s important to not deliberately create crowding. To have the capacity and options available to people that they have a full day and shift perception to having so much available, not just enough that takes way too long.

Exactly.

The feeling should be "There's just too much to see and do in a single day" not "We spent eight of our ten hours in lines so we only got to do a few things since we also had to squeeze a meal and bathroom breaks in".
 
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MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Correct. Which is also a problem. When people are unable to get everything done they want to do it amplifies the crowds and wait and times in their heads and decreases the perceived value of their experience.

What are you basing this understanding of human perception in the parks on?

When there's just too much to do and pick from that you have to make choices, I don't think most people are going to blame that on wait times and lighter crowding.

When you have a park that only works as a full day experience because of the crowds and wait times, with typical waits that are between 5-20x the length of the available attractions, that seems like it would be more of a problem to me.
 
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jpeden

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
No
So in your example for bi-weekly salaried, these people are guaranteed a base amount based on an hourly pay whether they work those base minimum hours or not but if they go over those hours, they get overtime?

That would make them hourly employees based on FLSA but with perks, basically?

Correct. Their duties mean that their jobs don’t qualify for FLSA exemption but they are still professional, salaried jobs. But due to federal labor laws they are allowed to draw overtime because their positions don’t meet FLSA exemption requirements. This is a fairly common practice.
 

MrPromey

Well-Known Member
Correct. Their duties mean that their jobs don’t qualify for FLSA exemption but they are still professional, salaried jobs. But due to federal labor laws they are allowed to draw overtime because their positions don’t meet FLSA exemption requirements. This is a fairly common practice.

I guess what I'm missing is why an employer, especially Disney, would even offer this unless it was absolutely necessary for strictly competitive reasons where qualified people in mass would refuse to accept hourly wages.

It seems like it assumes the potential negatives of a a salaried position (for an employer) and provides them with none of the benefits.

Since they'd be legally required to accurately track time, even saying that it was a job position where time is difficult to track so it's easier to just go with salary because you know they're going to work a base minimum anyway seems to not be an acceptable reason.

And in the case of these people doing the guide work, they'd seem close enough with that to fall into the performance role that allows for exemption, especially if their other tasks are of an administration type that would also likely qualify.

Surely it can't be because they aren't paying the minimum to allow for exemption?

Sorry to seem dense about all of this but as someone who has sometimes clocked in 90 hour weeks on salary in offices full of salaried and hourly people where many of those hourly positions could qualify for exemption, even though they remain hourly jobs, it feels like there is something missing, here.
 

DisneyFan32

Well-Known Member
In the Parks
Yes
I guess what I'm missing is why an employer, especially Disney, would even offer this unless it was absolutely necessary for strictly competitive reasons where qualified people in mass would refuse to accept hourly wages.

It seems like it assumes the potential negatives of a a salaried position (for an employer) and provides them with none of the benefits.

Since they'd be legally required to accurately track time, even saying that it was a job position where time is difficult to track so it's easier to just go with salary because you know they're going to work a base minimum anyway seems to not be an acceptable reason.

And in the case of these people doing the guide work, they'd seem close enough with that to fall into the performance role that allows for exemption, especially if their other tasks are of an administration type that would also likely qualify.

Surely it can't be because they aren't paying the minimum to allow for exemption?

Sorry to seem dense about all of this but as someone who has sometimes clocked in 90 hour weeks on salary in offices full of salaried and hourly people where many of those hourly positions could qualify for exemption, even though they remain hourly jobs, it feels like there is something missing, here.
Look I found it on Youtube, it's really funny guys:
 

Comped

Well-Known Member
Someone on this site said that Disney offered to sell the US parks to OLC once, and OLC wasn't interested. Not because they couldn't afford it, they just weren't interested. I forget who it was, Martin or Lee perhaps, someone trustworthy with knowledge...
OLC has made offers in the past. Hell, they've offered to buy the whole company at times. I wasn't aware that Disney had made an offer to sell though...
 

Vegas Disney Fan

Well-Known Member
Except adding new attractions generally increases demand and thus increases that amount of people. And while people will be excited to be able to ride Tron sometime next year, that won’t make them suddenly not want to ride pirates of the Caribbean. So the demand for Pirates of the Caribbean doesn’t really decrease.

Induced demand is a tricky one, lines are typically self regulating, if the line is an hour at Pirates most people will stop joining it, if it’s 15 minutes most people will jump in, I think that’s true whether there’s 25 other rides in the park or 50.

As a parks fan I want those 50 rides but I agree that it probably doesn’t changes the lines that much, not unless they cap the crowds at the same time AND stay fully staffed despite shorter lines, 2 things Disney historically hasn’t done.

The one thing they can do to consistently decrease lines is expand the ride itself, Soarin couldn’t meet demand with 2 theaters so they added a third, Toy Story Mania couldn’t meet demand with 2 tracks so they added a third, that made a substantial difference in queue time but even that was partially offset by creating more demand because the lines were now shorter.

A ride designed to accommodate 1500 people per hour was fine when the parks were seeing 25000 people a day but now that MK is seeing 50000 people a day it has no chance of accommodating them all regardless of how many other rides they build.

Preventing repeat rides would be the biggest benefit of adding more rides.
 
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AEfx

Well-Known Member
The biggest issue is, they are not currently using the space as it was intentionally designed, and it's exasperating many issues. In fact, the current park systems actively go *against* the intended flow designs that Disney was once so well-known for.

The cavernous queues for major attractions were designed to house thousands of people at once. There is a huge amount of "guest area" dedicated to these lines, that in many cases vast swaths of which are currently unused. This was a minor issue that has been there since the invention of the original FP system, but it's become a far bigger deal with everyone standing around on their phones all day scheduling/ordering everything.

With one hand, Disney has been reducing "open" areas, outdoor seating, etc. for many years now, but the other hand at the same time has been absolutely flooding them with people waiting to do "the next thing" on their app. Same with mobile food ordering - which I love, don't get me wrong (it's the only thing I *like* doing on my phone, because it makes it so much easier in a bunch of different ways) - but it also just means everyone is crowded around outside waiting now, in areas that weren't really meant to be waited in.

The going theory for many years about why WDW was trying to get people out of those attraction lines was "they will spend more time in the shops spending $", but given even shop space has been reduced, and guests are just milling about waiting for the next thing, in practice I don't think it has turned out that way.

The TL;DR is WDW was brilliantly built with 1970's-1990's guest behavior at the core of its very designs, but it isn't holding up to 21st century guest behavior - particularly poorly due to the way Disney is so heavily pushing the digital-vacation. There is a ton of wasted space, and no easy way to convert it because it is so intrinsic in the design of each and every inch of the parks.
 

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