lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
People make substitutions. There’s only so much time in a day, so people wanting to do an attraction doesn’t mean they get to it.
-
Welcome to the WDWMAGIC.COM Forums!
Please take a look around, and feel free to sign up and join the community.
News Bob Iger is back! Chapek is out!!
- Thread starter Disney4family
- Start date
el_super
Well-Known Member
Sure. Attraction demand isn't the same across the board though. That's the bigger puzzle to solve. You can't convince someone not to ride Space Mountain because you have unused capacity on TTA or Carousel of Progress. So generally in a park, you end up with some attractions with obscene demand that are just always crowded with long lines, and some attractions that basically go underutilized.
The only way that it would really work to help capacity and crowding issues is if you were somehow able to build some magic-bullet attraction that would be both high demand enough to fully utilize the capacity gains, but also low demand enough to not cause its own crowding issues... at the same time. There's a lot of of reasons, including the financial ones, that make this relatively impossible.
I don't know that OLC would be able to afford the Disney parks.
_caleb
Well-Known Member
I think you might be underestimating the power of an exclusive free Mickey cupcake offer.
Seriously, though, I think a 50% merch coupon or a buy-1-get-1 popcorn bucket would get SOME people to skip Space Mountain for now. And Genie knows exactly which guests are those people.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
peter11435
Well-Known Member
Correct. Which is also a problem. When people are unable to get everything done they want to do it amplifies the crowds and wait and times in their heads and decreases the perceived value of their experience.
lazyboy97o
Well-Known Member
Which is why it’s important to not deliberately create crowding. To have the capacity and options available to people that they have a full day and shift perception to having so much available, not just enough that takes way too long.
They could. Although personally I think they'd want the whole company and not just the parks. The media library is where Disney is really worth good money...
JoeCamel
Well-Known Member
Where would they get the money???
When is the last time WDPR committed to proactive development of the Orlando parks--developing attractions not to meet an unmet need, fixing a known problem in a park, or a perceived reactions to imbalances between the gates or losing out on another opportunity?
Everything in EPCOT planned or opened in the last half decade is reactive to a park that had not seen a new attraction built since... Soarin?
Toy Story Mania, Galaxy's Edge, and Pandora were all built with a perception of creating new attractions to incomplete feeling, underdeveloped parks.
NFL was built as a reaction to a capacity crisis at Magic Kingdom.
Is it Toy Story Mania or Everest, or would those be reactions to underdeveloped parks?
Is it Soarin'?
Is it something even older? Sunset Blvd? Wonders of Life? Splash Mountain?
They like having everyone think they have to play catch-up.
MerlinTheGoat
Well-Known Member
Someone on this site said that Disney offered to sell the US parks to OLC once, and OLC wasn't interested. Not because they couldn't afford it, they just weren't interested. I forget who it was, Martin or Lee perhaps, someone trustworthy with knowledge...
Elijah Abrams
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Why? Why wouldn’t that sequel save them if it’s on track to make lots of money?
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
Exactly.
The feeling should be "There's just too much to see and do in a single day" not "We spent eight of our ten hours in lines so we only got to do a few things since we also had to squeeze a meal and bathroom breaks in".
Last edited:
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
What are you basing this understanding of human perception in the parks on?
When there's just too much to do and pick from that you have to make choices, I don't think most people are going to blame that on wait times and lighter crowding.
When you have a park that only works as a full day experience because of the crowds and wait times, with typical waits that are between 5-20x the length of the available attractions, that seems like it would be more of a problem to me.
Last edited:
Correct. Their duties mean that their jobs don’t qualify for FLSA exemption but they are still professional, salaried jobs. But due to federal labor laws they are allowed to draw overtime because their positions don’t meet FLSA exemption requirements. This is a fairly common practice.
MrPromey
Well-Known Member
I guess what I'm missing is why an employer, especially Disney, would even offer this unless it was absolutely necessary for strictly competitive reasons where qualified people in mass would refuse to accept hourly wages.
It seems like it assumes the potential negatives of a a salaried position (for an employer) and provides them with none of the benefits.
Since they'd be legally required to accurately track time, even saying that it was a job position where time is difficult to track so it's easier to just go with salary because you know they're going to work a base minimum anyway seems to not be an acceptable reason.
And in the case of these people doing the guide work, they'd seem close enough with that to fall into the performance role that allows for exemption, especially if their other tasks are of an administration type that would also likely qualify.
Surely it can't be because they aren't paying the minimum to allow for exemption?
Sorry to seem dense about all of this but as someone who has sometimes clocked in 90 hour weeks on salary in offices full of salaried and hourly people where many of those hourly positions could qualify for exemption, even though they remain hourly jobs, it feels like there is something missing, here.
DisneyFan32
Well-Known Member
- In the Parks
- Yes
Rickcat96
Well-Known Member
Beyond Thunder Mountain
OLC has made offers in the past. Hell, they've offered to buy the whole company at times. I wasn't aware that Disney had made an offer to sell though...
Vegas Disney Fan
Well-Known Member
Induced demand is a tricky one, lines are typically self regulating, if the line is an hour at Pirates most people will stop joining it, if it’s 15 minutes most people will jump in, I think that’s true whether there’s 25 other rides in the park or 50.
As a parks fan I want those 50 rides but I agree that it probably doesn’t changes the lines that much, not unless they cap the crowds at the same time AND stay fully staffed despite shorter lines, 2 things Disney historically hasn’t done.
The one thing they can do to consistently decrease lines is expand the ride itself, Soarin couldn’t meet demand with 2 theaters so they added a third, Toy Story Mania couldn’t meet demand with 2 tracks so they added a third, that made a substantial difference in queue time but even that was partially offset by creating more demand because the lines were now shorter.
A ride designed to accommodate 1500 people per hour was fine when the parks were seeing 25000 people a day but now that MK is seeing 50000 people a day it has no chance of accommodating them all regardless of how many other rides they build.
Preventing repeat rides would be the biggest benefit of adding more rides.
Last edited:
AEfx
Well-Known Member
The biggest issue is, they are not currently using the space as it was intentionally designed, and it's exasperating many issues. In fact, the current park systems actively go *against* the intended flow designs that Disney was once so well-known for.
The cavernous queues for major attractions were designed to house thousands of people at once. There is a huge amount of "guest area" dedicated to these lines, that in many cases vast swaths of which are currently unused. This was a minor issue that has been there since the invention of the original FP system, but it's become a far bigger deal with everyone standing around on their phones all day scheduling/ordering everything.
With one hand, Disney has been reducing "open" areas, outdoor seating, etc. for many years now, but the other hand at the same time has been absolutely flooding them with people waiting to do "the next thing" on their app. Same with mobile food ordering - which I love, don't get me wrong (it's the only thing I *like* doing on my phone, because it makes it so much easier in a bunch of different ways) - but it also just means everyone is crowded around outside waiting now, in areas that weren't really meant to be waited in.
The going theory for many years about why WDW was trying to get people out of those attraction lines was "they will spend more time in the shops spending $", but given even shop space has been reduced, and guests are just milling about waiting for the next thing, in practice I don't think it has turned out that way.
The TL;DR is WDW was brilliantly built with 1970's-1990's guest behavior at the core of its very designs, but it isn't holding up to 21st century guest behavior - particularly poorly due to the way Disney is so heavily pushing the digital-vacation. There is a ton of wasted space, and no easy way to convert it because it is so intrinsic in the design of each and every inch of the parks.
The cavernous queues for major attractions were designed to house thousands of people at once. There is a huge amount of "guest area" dedicated to these lines, that in many cases vast swaths of which are currently unused. This was a minor issue that has been there since the invention of the original FP system, but it's become a far bigger deal with everyone standing around on their phones all day scheduling/ordering everything.
With one hand, Disney has been reducing "open" areas, outdoor seating, etc. for many years now, but the other hand at the same time has been absolutely flooding them with people waiting to do "the next thing" on their app. Same with mobile food ordering - which I love, don't get me wrong (it's the only thing I *like* doing on my phone, because it makes it so much easier in a bunch of different ways) - but it also just means everyone is crowded around outside waiting now, in areas that weren't really meant to be waited in.
The going theory for many years about why WDW was trying to get people out of those attraction lines was "they will spend more time in the shops spending $", but given even shop space has been reduced, and guests are just milling about waiting for the next thing, in practice I don't think it has turned out that way.
The TL;DR is WDW was brilliantly built with 1970's-1990's guest behavior at the core of its very designs, but it isn't holding up to 21st century guest behavior - particularly poorly due to the way Disney is so heavily pushing the digital-vacation. There is a ton of wasted space, and no easy way to convert it because it is so intrinsic in the design of each and every inch of the parks.