News Bob Iger is back! Chapek is out!!

[fgmnt]

These things predate the pandemic, which was a huge hit to already-struggling theaters. Sure, lots and lots of people came out for Top Gun, Minions, Spider-Man, etc. but these are vestiges of the glory days, not an indicator of some return to the glory days.

There's a great insight on this from none other than Anthony Mackie.



Any kind of successful box office movie that exists outside of the intellectual property umbrella have legacy actors or directors attached to them. There is no next Julia Roberts, Tom Cruise, Nic Cage, Helen Mirren, etc. As importantly, I don't think there's a next Spielberg, Scorcese, Cameron, or Nolan -- a director tens of millions of Americans go see because of the name behind the camera.
At the very least, they roll have to work their way up through D2C or very low budget and independent efforts to become a brand strong enough.

There's time in the present for Searchlight movies to make money for Disney at the box office now, but that may not last forever.

 

[_caleb]

Well it's compounded there. Universal and other studios are doing ok, even when things are not great.
Disney has the mostly tent pole menality chasing synergy three times a year and inflated budgets.
Disney is the only one so tent pole heavy. Back to Iger vs early Eisner's mentality. 20th century fox should be their touchstone.

Any middle of the road budget now is a straight to Disney Plus spin off or sequel.

And seeing how Glass Onion at a smaller budget made over 15 million plus in one week, when Disney's latest and family animated.festure came out at the same time.
It is working out well for Netflix. This was a pilot for what they do next

Glass Onion is an original film for a streaming platform with a streaming platform budget. On a lark, they dumped it into theaters for a week and hangers-on to the good old days were dumb enough to pay $12 to watch it.

Disney's doing the same, they're just spending too much. Iger is going to adjust this, just watch.

BTW, Disney's Stagecraft (developed by ILM) tech was a MAJOR leap forward in reducing production costs and will be a game-changer in making streaming profitable.

 

[celluloid]

These people who want to be right about theaters dying completely have been around in every medium change or introduction.

HBO,
Other premium cable
Home video
DVD/HD/Ultra

Cinema is not dying. Companies just go to tent pole and merch for the real money.

There are more theaters now at a wild growth rate than ever before in the world.

No one is going to go "Yeah, we will just put that movie right to streaming" when you see those giants and moderate budget successes competing just fine.


Again, Netflix is figuring it out the angle of people want instant gratification, even if most.people have Netflix, they will go see a movie in it's theatrical one because people like instant gratification no matter the medium and e joy a shared experience.

Drive in theaters are still around for goodness sakes and many places they are, they can't even operate for months at a time.

 

[celluloid]

Glass Onion is an original film for a streaming platform with a streaming platform budget. On a lark, they dumped it into theaters for a week and hangers-on to the good old days were dumb enough to pay $12 to watch it.

Ok, now you are saying people that have the means are dumb?
If people enjoy it, that does a d did brought healthy business.
Netflix was the one that dropped the marvel shows due to budget and hard ROI. Disney's hubris has not listened and why they are playing catch up.

But you referring to a business choice on a lark and the top list of Thanksgiving week were just a bunch of idiots?

 

[_caleb]

These people who want to be right about theaters dying completely have been around in every medium change or introduction.

HBO,
Other premium cable
Home video
DVD/HD/Ultra

Add streaming, video games, and whatever the metaverse turns out to be, and you're just naming the nails in the coffin.

Cinema is not dying. Companies just go to tent pole and merch for the real money.

And why do you think that is?

There are more theaters now at a wild growth rate than ever before in the world.

Could you show your work on this one (and share it with the CFO of Cineworld/Regal Cinemas)?

No one is going to go "Yeah, we will just put that movie right to streaming" when you see those giants and moderate budget successes competing just fine.

Streaming is not the same as giving it away for free.

Again, Netflix is figuring it out the angle of people want instant gratification, even if most.people have Netflix, they will go see a movie in it's theatrical one because people like instant gratification no matter the medium and e joy a shared experience.

You're telling us that going to a movie theater is somehow "instant gratification," while Disney+ is not?

Drive in theaters are still around for goodness sakes and many places they are, they can't even operate for months at a time.

Clearly, drive-ins are the future!

 

[Serpico Jones]

Netflix has zero interest in movie theaters.

 

[DKampy]

The fact that we can point to a handful of recent successful films does not mean that we're about to see a radical 180º in North American theater attendance. I'm not talking about a decline in the last 3 years, but an overall trend. Theater attendance peaked in 2001.

View attachment 682007

Meanwhile, costs are going up: costs to make and market a blockbuster film and costs to run a movie theater (many smaller theaters went out of business because they couldn't show certain films that studios required be shown only using expensive high-def digital projectors and digital surround sound systems). And the risk is going up: sometimes, even with all the right ingredients, a big movie will bomb and nobody but the experts on fan message boards knows why.

Other factors in the demise of cinema:

• Home equipment is better/cheaper than ever
• Word of mouth via internet drowns out marketing efforts
• Piracy (bad), and streaming (owned by the studios, cuts out the middle man)
• Online makes YOU the consumer and the product (data is king)
• The long, slow death of the American shopping mall
• Movie ticket and concession prices
• Video games (seriously, compare revenues)

These things predate the pandemic, which was a huge hit to already-struggling theaters. Sure, lots and lots of people came out for Top Gun, Minions, Spider-Man, etc. but these are vestiges of the glory days, not an indicator of some return to the glory days.

I know you don't believe me, but all the major movie studios sure do. Chapek didn't invent streaming, and Iger didn't jump into Disney+ on a whim after a flashy presentation by Hulu execs.

Except streaming is not brining in the cash either….every streamer is in debt….you can only add so many subscribers before hitting a wall…even your. Day and date streaming/movie theater did not bring any more subscriber growth they what they were getting….so maybe entertainment is going to die out

 

[denyuntilcaught]

But it is strange to think about the movies which 'advertised' gay characters have massively under performed ...

Causation without correlation. The movies failed due to many many reasons, and none of that has to do with representation. Eternals was a bore and didn't exactly get stellar reviews, Lightyear was the umpteenth sequel to a long in the tooth franchise that no one asked for, and Strange World was hardly marketed.

Not because they had "A" character that wasn't straight.

 

[celluloid]

Netflix has zero interest in movie theaters.

As a production studio as well as streaming service, they are happy to and have diversified sources of income.

 

[_caleb]

Ok, now you are saying people that have the means are dumb?
If people enjoy it, that does a d did brought healthy business.

No, not "people who have means," or "people who enjoy it," but "people who've already paid for access to it and can watch from the comforts of home."

Netflix was the one that dropped the marvel shows due to budget and hard ROI. Disney's hubris has not listened and why they are playing catch up.

Huh?

But you referring to a business choice on a lark and the top list of Thanksgiving week were just a bunch of idiots? Get bent.

Sorry if my opinion made you angry. That wasn't my intention.

 

[Casper Gutman]

The fact that we can point to a handful of recent successful films does not mean that we're about to see a radical 180º in North American theater attendance. I'm not talking about a decline in the last 3 years, but an overall trend. Theater attendance peaked in 2001.

View attachment 682007

Meanwhile, costs are going up: costs to make and market a blockbuster film and costs to run a movie theater (many smaller theaters went out of business because they couldn't show certain films that studios required be shown only using expensive high-def digital projectors and digital surround sound systems). And the risk is going up: sometimes, even with all the right ingredients, a big movie will bomb and nobody but the experts on fan message boards knows why.

Other factors in the demise of cinema:

• Home equipment is better/cheaper than ever
• Word of mouth via internet drowns out marketing efforts
• Piracy (bad), and streaming (owned by the studios, cuts out the middle man)
• Online makes YOU the consumer and the product (data is king)
• The long, slow death of the American shopping mall
• Movie ticket and concession prices
• Video games (seriously, compare revenues)

These things predate the pandemic, which was a huge hit to already-struggling theaters. Sure, lots and lots of people came out for Top Gun, Minions, Spider-Man, etc. but these are vestiges of the glory days, not an indicator of some return to the glory days.

I know you don't believe me, but all the major movie studios sure do. Chapek didn't invent streaming, and Iger didn't jump into Disney+ on a whim after a flashy presentation by Hulu execs.

Of course movie theaters have been on the decline in the long-term. I don’t know why you stopped in 2001 - why not go back to the 50s and we can talk about the Paramount decree, the rise of television, and the impact of suburban sprawl. The whole point is that studios and theaters have continually adapted to declining audiences and the social, economic, and cultural changes that occasioned them. Then in the late 2010s the industry and Wall Street lost there minds about streaming and decided what was actually a new secondary pipeline in fact obliterated everything that had come before - they abandoned the process of adaptation that had sustained the industry for more then a century for a panicked revolution unsupported by evidence.

What you’re continually arguing here is the pre-Covid mindset that prompted Hollywood’s frantic actions. The last year has shown that mindset was, predictably, poorly considered groupthink. As much as you insist I’m offering a few cherry picked examples, I’m pointing out a wide and varied range of films. Summer box office in 2022 was down 21% from 2019… but 50% fewer films were released. To quote Forbes on the matter, “The [box office] problem isn’t with demand, but rather supply.” The fact is that theaters are proving they have the audience but not the content while Wall Street and Hollywood are running around with their hair on fire because streaming isn’t meeting expectations. This has all been widely covered in the industry press. The collapse of the streaming-mania is a huge part of the reason Chapek is on the unemployment line.

No one is saying ticket sales are going to return to the level of Gone With the Wind. But theaters will remain a part of the film viewing experience.

 

[TwilightZone]

video games

Not the same as watching a movie. I am a video game fan, I have friends that are video game fans. Sometimes they want to play games, other times watch a movie. They aren't the same, they aren't even comparable. It's like apples and oranges.

whatever the metaverse turns out to be

Metaverse is making "Meta" lose millions of dollars. Won't be surprised if Zuccerburg gets outsed Chapeak style in the near future cause of it.

 

[celluloid]

Not glory days does not mean death. Caleb's arguments move like the Yeti did on opening day, with as much point as it is now with a burnt out strobe light

 

[Trauma]

Causation without correlation. The movies failed due to many many reasons, and none of that has to do with representation. Eternals was a bore and didn't exactly get stellar reviews, Lightyear was the umpteenth sequel to a long in the tooth franchise that no one asked for, and Strange World was hardly marketed.

Not because they had "A" character that wasn't straight.

It’s always something isn’t it?

I guess if they keep swinging they will eventually get a hit.

 

[_caleb]

Except streaming is not brining in the cash either….every streamer is in debt….you can only add so many subscribers before hitting a wall…even your. Day and date streaming/movie theater did not bring any more subscriber growth they what they were getting….so maybe entertainment is going to die out

You make a very good point, and I agree that no one has figured out how to make money–nevermind c.1999 multiplex money–through streaming the movies they produce. This is why the future is in production methods/tech that lower cost. I think we'll see streaming focus more on small-budget deep-cut content that caters to niche audiences rather than big-budget blockbusters that try for mass appeal and all-or-nothing theater releases.

 

[celluloid]

No, not "people who have means," or "people who enjoy it," but "people who've already paid for access to it and can watch from the comforts of home."

Huh?

Sorry if my opinion made you angry. That wasn't my intention.

Calling anyone dumb for enjoying entertainment in how they chose to spend their means should make no one happy.

Why is it bad? People did it for years. I went to see Toy Story twice in theaters and then when it came.out on home video I watched it a lot since I paid to view it at home.

Mentally unhealthy to call people dumb, so while I am not angry. I have no issue telling someone to stop it.

 

[Trauma]

Calling anyone dumb for enjoying entertainment in how they chose to spend their means should make no one happy.

Why? People didn't for years. I went to see Toy Story twice in theaters and then when it came.out on home video I watched it a lot since I paid to view it.

Mentally unhealthy to call people dumb.

I would gladly pay to see a movie in theaters that I can see for free at home, and I have a heck of a home theater.

It’s a night out for only $100.

Next people will be saying the parks are going to die once people can experience them in VR.

Why go to the parks when I can experience them from my couch!!

 

[Tha Realest]

I believe that Disney's progressivism will ultimately prove a wise choice from a financial perspective also.

If these films keep performing this poorly, there will be no films - woke or otherwise - to complain about. “Go woke, go broke,” is an insipid statement, as it presumes a causality between the latter and the former. Regardless of your stance on the wisdom of putting these relationships and identities/orientations front and center, something is really wrong in the animation division. Is it marketing in general? Is there a problem marketing a film with these aspects to it? Is there a not insignificant portion of the moviegoing public that eschews these films now?l, having been tipped off from WOm or Ben Shapiro or Tucker? Who knows.

There are plenty of films and series that have a LGBTQ storyline or main character that have done well (Peacemaker and Andor are most recent examples). That said, with some of these lesser quality productions there’s a sense that the insertion of these things are inorganic, and they seem to happen with more frequency in films that are generally poorly received. Most of the positive reviews for Strange World celebrated the representation and progressivism of the film, with nary a mention of any other engaging aspects of the film. Okay. Great. How does that entertain the average filmgoer?

 

[celluloid]

I would gladly pay to see a movie in theaters that I can see for free at home, and I have a heck of a home theater.

It’s a night out for only $100.

Next people will be saying the parks are going to die once people can experience them in VR.

Why go to the parks when I can experience them from my couch!!

And it is not like Netflix was half hazard about it. Not a "lark" another thing Caleb stated that is so disingenuous. It won't be on the service until next month. So Netflix becomes the studio and distributer which they used to do for home video. It is the modern version of it. It was a planned event and paid them proof.

They are going back to what works and Iger has to admit it will work as an option as their competitors are adapting and succeeding at it.

 

[DKampy]

Glass Onion should have been given a full theatrical treatment…especially after paying 400 Million for the Knives out rights…it was easily the biggest movie playing in less than 1000 theaters for the year and they did it in less then a week

Glass Onion is an original film for a streaming platform with a streaming platform budget. On a lark, they dumped it into theaters for a week and hangers-on to the good old days were dumb enough to pay $12 to watch it.

Disney's doing the same, they're just spending too much. Iger is going to adjust this, just watch.

BTW, Disney's Stagecraft (developed by ILM) tech was a MAJOR leap forward in reducing production costs and will be a game-changer in making streaming profitable.

Netflix were dumb for not giving it a full release…how many millions did they leave off the table…as a mystery maybe people did not want to be spoiled…some Of us still like to be entertained outside of our home…I would of been one of those, but the closest theater playing it was an hour away