News Bob Iger is back! Chapek is out!!

[MrPromey]

Well, Disney certainly did that in Orlando, which is what we'd be talking about here. It just costs a lot more money these days. I agree it's not a lock. But they'd have to create something on the order of Epic Universe, though in a different location they could get away with one park instead of 2-3. Now if they were thinking more Dollywood than Six Flags I could see a lesser build working out.

Pipe dream I know

Port Canaveral and the Florida beaches preceded Disney as national tourist destinations.

If you've traveled half way across the country, an hour or so drive for an all-day or longer attraction wasn't that much of an ask, especially when people had longer attention spans.

Looking at things now, it may be hard to believe people orignally came here to go to the beaches and then went to Disney while they were here since over the years, Disney inverted that model but no, Disney did not put Florida on the map the way some Disney fans would have you believe - they just put CENTRAL Florida (which prior to Disney, wasn't really called Central Florida) on the map.

And Pigeon Forge was already a regional tourist destination before Dollywood. I know, because growing up in Florida, we vacationed in the mountains of southern North Carolina annually (for 2-3 weeks at a time) and Pigeon Forge over in Tenseness was always an overnight excursion from where we stayed.

Again, like Disney and Florida (as a whole - not central) looking at it now, it may seem like all that tourist trap stuff sprung up around Dollywood but a lot of the tourist trap stuff (along, of course, with the historical stuff) came first.

 

[Casper Gutman]

I'm curious why you think this. I haven't seen anything that would support it being a bigger draw than Harry Potter from a theme park perspective.

I don't think it will top HP, which is completely unique - the franchise is largely a fantasy of consumerism. I think Mario will get darn close - its merch with big, bold colors and huge nostalgic value. I'm not the biggest video game fan, but I look at the merch rolling out in Japan and I know I'm gonna buy a ton of it - probably more then I buy HP stuff.

 

[Trauma]

Outside of comparing sentient beings to a car...

If you don't want to drive a car because you don't like the colour, you are making a personal choice based on likes and interests. If you don't like a film because of its diverse elements, you are also making a personal choice based on likes and interests. One of those things could make that person a bigot based on their reasoning. There is a large difference between "this thing isn't for me and that's fine" and "this thing isn't for me and that makes me angry" or "they should stop making this thing because I don't want to see it."

Either way, I doubt old Bob or new Bob or same old Bob won't stop trying to break into new markets and do new things. I doubt an increasingly diverse cast of creatives will stop trying to make content that they wish they had when they were kids. Disney should be applauded for giving a black director a real Hollywood budget to make an incredibly black movie. They get applauded because it was a financial success, which is what they were going for when they did that. I appreciate that they took that swing, but the wishy-washy half commitment in things like Lightyear and Strange Worlds is why these works are bad, not because the authors are working from a place of personal experience and knowledge (something most great artists have done historically). The elements of the works that feel shoehorned in are quite often due to executive meddling and fear or trying something truly different. The Matrix is an almost explicitly trans film that was a revolution in culture, it can work.

So I’m a bigot if I don’t want to see a movie with a gay lead character?

I don’t know if that’s what you’re saying here, but Im a little slow.

 

[pwnbeaver]

Lmao did you just say "mansplain" unironically?

I hate to break it to you, but men are aggressive and hostile to one another. They argue. You don't get to cry "mansplain!" when men treat you like they treat other men. Either you want to be handled with kid gloves, or you don't.

I should really stop, because this is driving me insane, but "mansplaining" doesn't refer simply to aggressive arguing (which every gender can easily do, by the way). It primarily is about completely ignoring the perspectives of non-male voices while making an argument, or shutting the door to non-dominant voices without truly listening or considering them.

 

[UNCgolf]

I just mean as a theme park property.

People are suggesting that they are excited for the movie but not the land (and other people have said the exact opposite, so )

I'm just conceding that the popularty of the land may not prove to be evergreen but I agree with you - I think it will be.

The only potential issue I see with the land is that it seems heavily rooted in SNES era Mario. Not that Mario doesn't have relatively similar design in general, but some of the newer Mario games have definitely gone in other directions and that aesthetic may be less interesting to kids going forward.

I think that's a minor problem overall, though.

 

[fgmnt]

You do know that Disneyland was not originally opened to be a major tourist destination, right?

And you do know that Orlando has always been an hour and a half (or less) away from the beaches of Florida which were a national tourist destination long before the "backwater swamps" had draw.

But sure, anyone can plunk down a theme park and make it work wherever they want. Maybe they could put it in South Dakota and give Mt. Rushmore a run for its money.

Someone made this point in these forums recently (might even have been you) that the company as currently constructed has zero fundamental drive to build a castle park like the first 2 they built. If they built something like Shanghai Disneyland in North America, it would be a colossal failure, and that is probably the high end of what the company would be willing to commit to in the medium term. If they built anything less, it would be a self inflicted and pricey wound to the parks brand domestically (they already self inflict wounds in a much more fiscally responsible way).

I'm curious why you think this. I haven't seen anything that would support it being a bigger draw than Harry Potter from a theme park perspective.

I think it's a foot in the door for families with kids under 10 in the way that the Seuess license and the now-EOL kidzone never could.

 

[pwnbeaver]

So I’m a bigot if I don’t want to see a movie with a gay lead character?

I don’t know if that’s what you’re saying here, but Im a little slow.

No, you missed the part that leaves room for "this isn't for me and that's fine," which is a completely reasonable and understandable response for anything.

 

[UNCgolf]

I don't think it will top HP, which is completely unique - the franchise is largely a fantasy of consumerism. I think Mario will get darn close - its merch with big, bold colors and huge nostalgic value. I'm not the biggest video game fan, but I look at the merch rolling out in Japan and I know I'm gonna buy a ton of it - probably more then I buy HP stuff.

It'll move a ton of merch -- I could potentially see it outselling HP in merch, although HP has the advantage of selling really expensive stuff like the wands that people go crazy for.

I don't know that it will draw customers to the parks the way HP does. It'll be a draw for sure, but I just don't see the evidence to suggest more people will go to Universal specifically for the Mario land than went (and still go) specifically for HP.

 

[The Mom]

Port Canaveral and the beaches preceded Disney as national tourist destinations.

If you've traveled half way across the country, an hour or so drive for an all-day or longer attraction wasn't that much of an ask, especially when people had longer attention spans.

Don't forget Cypress Gardens, Silver Springs, and lots of smaller tourist destinations.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

The returns universal is going to get on the Nintendo/Mario licensing is going to blow every other licensing deal made in the last 20 years by Universal out of the water.

If Iger does not commit to major capital projects and Universal keeps pace through the rest of this decade (expecting smaller capital projects at IOA, big things at USO, and maybe by 2030 an announcement of EU Phase 2) they might actually shrink Disney market share.

I don’t know about that…

The WWOHP is quite a huge winner. It’s put Disneys new lands to shame since 2010 by the appearances of it

 

[UNCgolf]

I think it's a foot in the door for families with kids under 10 in the way that the Seuess license and the now-EOL kidzone never could.

That makes sense. I guess I personally just don't see Mario as an overwhelming kid IP in that way -- there are absolutely kids who love it, and it's certainly a bigger draw than Suess or anything else Universal has, but I don't think it's a massive kid draw the way Disney film IPs are for Disney.

I think the overall Mario audience skews older than 10; Pokemon might be a bigger draw for the under 10 crowd than Mario among Nintendo IPs (not that Pokemon doesn't also have a ton of older fans).

From my experience having nieces and nephews in that age frame, Minecraft is also far bigger than Mario for kids. Like not even comparable. I don't think Minecraft would really work well as a theme park land (or even attraction), though.

 

[MrPromey]

Don't forget Cypress Gardens, Silver Springs, and lots of smaller tourist destinations.

That's right! and we can't forget the Weeki Wachee mermaids!

These were all things people tended to do more of when they drove here rather than just flying into MCO and then flying back out.

Sadly, the ones we're mentioning are only the ones who survived (well Cypress Gardens only sort of).

As great as Disney's been for Central Florida, there are a lot of places outside that area that did not make it through the change in tourism patterns Disney created as they grew in this state.

I know you know this but I think a lot of our friends who think Disney put Florida on the map may not.

 

[Trauma]

It’s going to be a whole new park though. Nintendo Land doesn’t have to be the biggest draw of all time.

It just has to be a piece of the puzzle.

 

[Disney Analyst]

Which is probably why they shouldn't have built a Mario Kart ride at all and gone with something else -- bizarre to have a Mario Kart ride that goes like 5 MPH and is more of an AR shooting gallery than a race. A Mario Kart attraction should involve speed to some extent.

They could have just done a regular Mario dark ride, or Yoshi, or even Legend of Zelda. Plenty of other options rather than building something that doesn't represent the IP whatsoever.

Just need to wade in. I fully agree with you on this.

Mario Kart was a dumb choice of ride if you are not going to include the VITAL component of the game, racing. Yes hitting each other with items is also a fun aspect, but it's a racing game.

They had so many other options and routes they could take. Mario has so many great games, Super Mario Odyssey, Mario 64, Paper Mario, Super Mario Galaxy, etc.

They could have easily built a dark ride mashing up all those worlds, it didn't even need to have an interactive component, just let us enjoy a real life Mario adventure.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

MCU's audience at this point is everyone. Their fandom is essentially "people who go to movies." It's the quintessential, fabled four quadrant franchise. Within that huge potential audience, they're increasingly seeking to differentiate product and in the process targeting more specific segments with things like Werewold by Night. She-Hulk was their attempt at a female-oriented sitcom.

Oh I understand what they're trying to do, I just think they're bad at it.

They conditioned us that we need to watch everything in order to understand anything. If they had set things up like "feel free to skip Moon Knight if you don't love Moon Knight, and you'll be just fine jumping into the next project," then that would have been one thing. But they completely nuked this approach with Dr. Strange, which was an incoherent mess for anyone who didn't watch WandaVision. Now everyone feels like they have to watch everything the MCU puts out if they want to understand future projects, even things that they don't enjoy.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I'm curious why you think this. I haven't seen anything that would support it being a bigger draw than Harry Potter from a theme park perspective.

Harry Potter is a mint.

Walk through that park and count the near “universal” $200 Robes and $60 wands

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Outside of comparing sentient beings to a car...

If you don't want to drive a car because you don't like the colour, you are making a personal choice based on likes and interests. If you don't like a film because of its diverse elements, you are also making a personal choice based on likes and interests. One of those things could make that person a bigot based on their reasoning. There is a large difference between "this thing isn't for me and that's fine" and "this thing isn't for me and that makes me angry" or "they should stop making this thing because I don't want to see it."

Either way, I doubt old Bob or new Bob or same old Bob won't stop trying to break into new markets and do new things. I doubt an increasingly diverse cast of creatives will stop trying to make content that they wish they had when they were kids. Disney should be applauded for giving a black director a real Hollywood budget to make an incredibly black movie. They get applauded because it was a financial success, which is what they were going for when they did that. I appreciate that they took that swing, but the wishy-washy half commitment in things like Lightyear and Strange Worlds is why these works are bad, not because the authors are working from a place of personal experience and knowledge (something most great artists have done historically). The elements of the works that feel shoehorned in are quite often due to executive meddling and fear or trying something truly different. The Matrix is an almost explicitly trans film that was a revolution in culture, it can work.

It's very weird that you insist on lumping race, sex, gender identity, and sexuality under one umbrella as if one has anything to do with the other in this context.

The number of parents who wouldn't take their kids to a Black movie is pretty close to zero. The number of parents who wouldn't take their kids to a trans movie is very likely a majority. Maybe you see those as equal from a moral perspective, but they're certainly not equal from a financial perspective.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Walk through that park and count the near “universal” $200 Robes and $60 wands

I don't wear polyester.

God gave us sheep, cows, worms, cotton, and flax for a reason.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I don't wear polyester.

God gave us sheep, cows, worms, cotton, and flax for a reason.

You’d be about the only one there not…

It’s actually quite impressive/amazing…and lead directly to Disney building its upsell boutique stores in Flubtoo

 

[flynnibus]

Outside of comparing sentient beings to a car...

If you don't want to drive a car because you don't like the colour, you are making a personal choice based on likes and interests. If you don't like a film because of its diverse elements, you are also making a personal choice based on likes and interests. One of those things could make that person a bigot based on their reasoning. There is a large difference between "this thing isn't for me and that's fine" and "this thing isn't for me and that makes me angry" or "they should stop making this thing because I don't want to see it."

The point of the analogy was to show the principals WITHOUT getting into the debates over the subject matter. The principles hold true still. To the question posed about how people can get sidetracked by these topics and not just look at the movie. For same kinds of reasons I pointed out... the distractions and not getting past that.. no matter how good the material is beyond it.

The point of an analogy is to show a parallel - not an equality.