News Bob Iger is back! Chapek is out!!

[pwnbeaver]

I find the idea that Lightyear is some sort of transgressive diverse film completely insane.

It is a movie about a white masculine male learning to take responsibility for himself by trusting others and sharing the burden. He is incredibly heroic and celebrated throughout. If people's ideas of "obsession with diversity" mean that having black people and a lesbian couple exist in the world of the movie as main characters is too far, I fear for our future.

Iger is not some sort of political agent out here to crush the hegemonic hierarchies of white dominance. He wants to make money. There is a very large amount of people that are not the historically dominantly represented group that now make and consume art (or products, in the case of the stuff people complain about the most). This is a target audience, for those of you so concerned with the cash involved. Please, consider what inside of you is so offended by poorly written girlboss shows that we need to make large corporate shifts purely based on cash some sort of victory over Splash Mountain being rethemed.

 

[CaptainAmerica]

Human beings are more than capable of addressing several priorities at once:

Some of them are capable, and some of them aren't. Some of them are capable but disinterested. Some of them think being an entertainer is crass and beneath them, and they'd rather be agents of social change.

a diverse cast in no way precludes strong storytelling, as a show like Andor proves.

Exactly!

A comparison between House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power is instructive in this regard: both very deliberately introduce diverse casts into a genre traditionally dominated by white actors, yet the former is significantly better than the latter.

I'm a novel purist on both so I hate them equally, but their casts have nothing to do with it.

Good writing and an attentiveness to representation are in no way mutually exclusive.

You're focused exclusively on on-screen representation, I'm talking about behind-the-scenes. If you're hiring writers who only care about representation, then yes, good writing an attentiveness to representation are mutually exclusive.

The problem with Tiana isn't Tiana, the problem is that they fired all of the good Imagineers.

 

[dig311dug]

Sonic movies and detective pikachu did incredible at the box office and they are middling efforts (still fun enough). From the trailers, Mario seems to be leaps and bounds better (no mario pun intended). $1 billion earner for sure or I'll my shoe.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I find this take extremely perplexing and unconvincing. Human beings are more than capable of addressing several priorities at once: a diverse cast in no way precludes strong storytelling, as a show like Andor proves. A comparison between House of the Dragon and The Rings of Power is instructive in this regard: both very deliberately introduce diverse casts into a genre traditionally dominated by white actors, yet the former is significantly better than the latter. Good writing and an attentiveness to representation are in no way mutually exclusive.

The weakness of your argument is laid bare by the fact that those blaming diversity in such cases seem to have no equivalent scapegoat for the countless bad films, shows, rides, etc., that can't simply be accused of being "woke". It used to be the case that people actually articulated and specified what made something poor in quality without unthinkingly gravitating towards some convenient catchall explanation.

I agree with you…

But also acknowledge that Hollywood (and Wall Street) have struggled mightily to find the proper balance…

And it’s likely because they have so many business goals and a lot of skeletons in their own closet

 

[CaptainAmerica]

There is a very large amount of people that are not the historically dominantly represented group that now make and consume art (or products, in the case of the stuff people complain about the most). This is a target audience, for those of you so concerned with the cash involved.

Nobody consumed Bros or She-Hulk or Strange World.

And I'll use Bros as my next example because I can juxtapose two names side by side.

When Billy Eichner made Bros, he set out to make a gay movie, and it flopped. When Dan Levy made Schitt's Creek, he set out to make a freaking hysterical show, that also prominently featured a gay relationship, and it was a home run. Billy Eichner is obnoxious and pretentious. Dan Levy is charming and hilarious.

 

[MrPromey]

... I'm seeing similar back-and -forth play out for Strange World, a film that most likely bombed from the combination of poor marketing, too high production costs and just not being particularly good, rather than the culture wars baggage that some have focused on.

Just wanted to say Strange World was a lot better than Lightyear.

I don't want to talk it up too much because it wasn't anything that amazing or special and I had some quibbles with parts of it but it was a way more competent movie, overall, that was also a lot more fun to look at.

I'm sure the culture wars baggage was a drag on ticket sales as to some degree, it was for Lightyear but if the takeaway from Lightyear was that certain relationships being in the movie and the movie being scifi are specifically why the movie under-preformed, they learned the wrong lesson from Lightyear.

Those things probably did affect ticket sales but that's only a piece of it.

Just the same, if that was enough to erode their confidence and reduce their marketing for Strange World, well, they kind of shot themselves in the foot because it looks like SW has been set up to do worse than Lightyear and that's a tragedy because Lightyear was crap and while ST may not be best picture of the year, it isn't crap.

 

[flynnibus]

I agree with much of this analysis.

What I most dislike about where this friction has got us is that people are much too quick to blame diversity for a film’s shortcomings. The idea that Buzzyear, for example, is a bad film because its creators focused too much on diversity makes zero sense when you stop to think about it. Are we really to believe that so much time was spent designing characters of colour and including a gay kiss that none was left to come up with a good story?

Think of it like this... Imagine if your friend rolled up with their new Mercedes car and said "hey, check out my awesome new car"

You: "ok, but why is it pink?"
Them: "whats wrong with pink?"
You: "Who would want a pink car like that? No thanks"
Them: "but it's an awesome car! don't you want one like it?"
You: "meh... I just can't get over it being a bright pink car"

If you can't get past the bright pink element enough to see the car for what it is... are you wrong? Or is that part just creating enough friction for you that you just can't get over it to invest more into wanting to like the car?

The color is a distraction for a lot of people - one that takes away from the product itself depending on the eye of the beholder. Enough they can't move on from it and it's constantly waving in their face, keeping it in the front of their mind.

Same thing here... the distraction becomes it's own topic. Add in any resentment about patterns or change... and you get rants too.

 

[pdude81]

Rides based on BRIGHT, Stranger Things, and the extended teenage depression universe?

Well, for kids/family areas we have:
Super Monsters, Story Bots, Danger Mouse, Voltron, Inspector Gadget, Back to the Outback, My Little Pony, Battle Kitty, Octonauts, Christmas Chronicles

and more adult focused I'd say:
Stranger Things, Bridgerton, Witcher, Castlevania, Umbrella Academy, Altered Carbon, Spectral, Army of the Dead

More than enough things to focus on rides or experiences.

And sure you could do something basedon Bright if you wanted to

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Well, for kids/family areas we have:
Super Monsters, Story Bots, Danger Mouse, Voltron, Inspector Gadget, Back to the Outback, My Little Pony, Battle Kitty, Octonauts, Christmas Chronicles

and more adult focused I'd say:
Stranger Things, Bridgerton, Witcher, Castlevania, Umbrella Academy, Altered Carbon, Spectral, Army of the Dead

More than enough things to focus on rides or experiences.

And sure you could do something basedon Bright if you wanted to

It’s moot…because nobody is building a $10 bil new theme park complex…and not in Texas.

So there’s that

 

[pdude81]

Is southwest Texas much of a tourist destination, currently?

The big ones have tended to drop their resorts in places relatively close to where people were already going.

I don't know a lot about the tourist scene in that part of Texas.

Would this be Netflix planting their flag and competing with the likes of Disney/Universal/(kinda) Sea World or would it be more like their answer to a Six Flags?

No, but to buy enough land without being cost prohibitive it would have to be a bit out of the way, but close enough to an international airport or other tourist center to make it worthwhile. That's kind of between San Antonio and Mexico, so you can get people from Texas, New Mexico, Mexico, and then anybody else looking for a destination vacation.

I wouldn't expect them to waste time trying to fight it out with Six Flags. This would be a go big or go home situation, which may be why it hasn't happened yet.

 

[MrPromey]

Knowing who Mario is isn't the same as caring about Mario, though -- nearly everyone knows who Mickey Mouse is too but that doesn't mean they care about Disney theme parks (or even Disney at all).

Not to suggest that the Nintendo land won't be a success, because it almost certainly will. I just think people are really overestimating the draw; it seems like some people think it will be the biggest draw of all time.

The movie will definitely be a big hit.

The thing is, it's a different draw.

My ex who hated theme parks (that's just one of dozens of reasons she's an ex) is excited to go to this which for me is mind-boggling.

Teen and pre-teen kids that in this day and age, have to more and more be convinced to step away from their screens are excited for this.

There is an overlapping appeal to this that is different from what either Disney or Universal have done in the past.

Now, that could amount to a LOT of one-and-dones here in the US* - that remains to be seen but it'll be a strong pull for at least the first few years.


*It's hard to appreciate the cultural appeal of Nintendo in Japan from outside of Japan. You see Mario pop up on stuff you'd never see here. We're used to seeing Mario stuff in Happy Meals but over there, you run into him in financial institutions. It's way beyound the youth culture a lot of people like to associate Nintendo stuff with, here. It'll be popular there until the sun flames out but the US could be a different story - only time will tell.

 

[pdude81]

It’s moot…because nobody is building a $10 bil new theme park complex…and not in Texas.

So there’s that

Not unless they have their own power supply. Might need to have a special taxing district

 

[MrPromey]

No, but to buy enough land without being cost prohibitive it would have to be a bit out of the way, but close enough to an international airport or other tourist center to make it worthwhile. That's kind of between San Antonio and Mexico, so you can get people from Texas, New Mexico, Mexico, and then anybody else looking for a destination vacation.

I wouldn't expect them to waste time trying to fight it out with Six Flags. This would be a go big or go home situation, which may be why it hasn't happened yet.

I think that's the problem. They'd have to go pretty big to create their very own tourist destination from scratch.

Even Disney has never tried to do that and I don't think their IP is strong enough to do that just by itself so there would need to be something pretty amazing there unless they're just trying to be a regional park - which is where I was going with the Six Flags comparison.

 

[Touchdown]

You do know Orlando was a backwater swamp and Anaheim a sleepy orange farm town prior to Disney right? I mean it was a running gag on a comedy show that a train went to Anaheim (because no one went there.)

 

[ILoveWDW4ever]

They were dragged kicking and screaming into the 20th century and don’t seem to realize that we’re well into another century of further progress.

Oh. Okay then!

 

[UNCgolf]

*It's hard to appreciate the cultural appeal of Nintendo in Japan from outside of Japan. You see Mario pop up on stuff you'd never see here. We're used to seeing Mario stuff in Happy Meals but over there, you run into him in financial institutions. It's way beyound the youth culture a lot of people like to associate Nintendo stuff with, here. It'll be popular there until the sun flames out but the US could be a different story - only time will tell.

That's not unique to Mario in Japan, though -- there are also anime characters (and Pokemon) all over the place, including banks etc.

Mario is obviously one of the biggest (maybe the biggest), but it's not like he's an outlier being plastered all over things in a way that doesn't happen in the US.

Anyways, I don't want to come across as down on the Nintendo Land or as though I'm arguing it will be a failure. It's absolutely going to be a success. I just think people are overestimating it, even in comparison to other theme park draws like Harry Potter and Star Wars. Both of those IPs have a larger/wider overall fan base than Mario (or any video game IP). That said, it's hard to make a comparison between them because they're so different.

 

[Ayla]

It's very close to mansplaining to women how women can't be a large portion of MCU fans and/or are not really harassed.

It isn't 'close' ~ it IS mansplaining about something he has no clue about.

 

[Casper Gutman]

She-Hulk Season 1, Episode 1

"I'm great at controlling my anger. I do it all the time. When I'm catcalled in the street, when incompetent men explain my own area of expertise to me. I do it pretty much every day. Because if I don't, I will get called emotional, or difficult, or might just literally get murdered. So I'm an expert at controlling my anger, because I do it infinitely more than you. So all of this just feels like projecting a lot of $#!& onto me."

I thought She-Hulk had a lot of problems, but that episode, which aired first, was written and shot to air seventh, right after she completely loses it at the award show. We're not supposed to think she's entirely correct about her ability to control he anger (although she's not incorrect about the challenges she faces either). Disney decided they wanted all the Bruce origin stuff up front, despite the fact that it wasn't representative of the show.

 

[AEfx]

They can but do they want to?

Did anyone think to ask anyone at Apple before jumping to this conclusion?

Exactly. I've yet to see any compelling reason they would have any desire to take on the behemoth of businesses that Disney is in.

Apple buying a movie studio makes zero sense right now. Particularly one attached to the largest themepark business in the world. Both showed during the pandemic how fragile they are. There is no reason for them to take on that risk when the rest of their businesses already proved to be rather pandemic-proof.

Given the climate of the mid-2010's, it would have made more sense for Apple to buy into the movie business back then - particularly in terms of library ownership back when that was thought to be the key to the streaming kingdom.

These days, it just would be hanging an albatross over their heads. Why get into the tenuous big-budget blockbuster game right now, where there are more losers than winners, especially as they already have their own little Apple TV niche cut out which has been an award and critical darling. It doesn't even make sense from a library perspective any more, as Apple really only needs content that lives under its ecosystem, and they certainly couldn't do that at this point given Disney's streaming model.

It just wouldn't make sense from any perspective.

 

[Ayla]

That "/" is doing a lot of work.

Suburban women are a lot more like rural women than they are like urban women.

And married women (slash moms) are not like single women at all.

You sure seem to think you know a lot about women.