Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[marni1971]

But theres a marvel comic book about the ride

And when was that published?

 

[RSoxNo1]

I would be perfectly fine without IP attractions. I'm not afraid of new experiences. The IP focus of so many arguments is just stupid. Themed entertainment is a storytelling medium and what is most important is a good story. Despite how much some like to prattle on otherwise, a good story has an internal consistency. The story is set at the Land level and a bunch of unrelated attractions is just an amusement park.

I prefer a balance, but Iger and Co prefer anything but.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Clearly you haven't experienced the wonder, the incredible, the awe-inspiring voyage to Arrendelle that is Frozen: Just a Retelling of the Movie In a Largely Empty Showbuilding, but Elsa Belts Out Let It Go, So All The Rubes Are Happy.

It's not a book report ride. It doesn't excuse it's placement, but if you're going to criticize it, hit the points that are actually valid.

 

[RSoxNo1]

I seem to be only person in the world not impressed by empty rooms and lousy animatronics.

They're good animatronics, but mediocre (at best) sets. The animatronics have had a ridiculous amount of issues though.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Please tell me you've been living under a rock and you're just now learning about the world around you. Literally everything around the Disney Parks is IP based attractions. And unless you're talking about something other than attractions then you, my friend, are in the wrong place

Not even close.

I'm doing park by park voting on my podcast's Facebook page, yes there's a fanboi bias in the rankings, but here's the mixture of the top 5 at each park:
Magic Kingdom

1. Splash Mountain (ip, but not one they'll talk about)
2. The Haunted Mansion (non-ip)
3. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad (non-ip)
4. Pirates of the Caribbean (ip, but not always)
5. Space Mountain (non-ip)

Epcot

1. Soarin' (non-ip)
2. Spaceship Earth (non-ip)
3. Test Track (non-ip)
4. Living with the Land (non-ip)
5. Illuminations: Reflections of Earth (non-ip)

(FYI, Frozen was 6th)

Hollywood Studios

1. Tower of Terror (ip based, albeit old ip)
2. Toy Story (ip)
3. Rock 'n' Roller Coaster (ip based, but not movie)
4. Star Tours (ip)
5. Great Movie Ride (several ips)

Animal Kingdom

1. Expedition Everest (non-ip)
2. Kilimanjaro Safaris (non-ip)
3. DINOSAUR (ip... barely)
4. Festival of the Lion King (ip)
5. Finding Nemo the Musical (ip)

 

[RSoxNo1]

How about turning Future World into a Zootopian city?

That would check all the boxes for fans and management.

And now I will take a step back and watch that compute.

@Mom and @wdwmagic, can you create a dedicated forum where we're allowed to call out posts like this? I'm trying so hard not to insult someone and it's becoming increasingly more difficult. When a legit consensus of the forum has to question whether or not he's actually trolling us, there needs to be some flexibility to forum rules...

 

[RSoxNo1]

It's completely inconsistent to argue that a "new IP" would be somehow pure and good while one that gets a movie first must be awful.

Frozen is a new, original IP.

Corporate synergy is the name of the game. This is not art for art's sake. It's not a museum. It's a corporation. If you don't make money, then you don't get to make art.

Why reinvent the teddy bear – what was that bland thing called? - when you have a Winnie the Pooh?

Corporate synergy is a good idea that's often overused. Businesses gravitate towards successful ideas without understanding why they are successful. That can be shortsighted and dangerous to the life of the business. Synergy is a perfect example of this.

Take for example Disney doing a better job than Lucas at protecting the Star Wars brand. One of the first things they did when they owned it was get rid of Hyperspace Hoopla. Even though it was a popular show they felt it was inappropriate to the integrity of the characters that they now own. When they didn't own the characters they didn't really care how they were used.

If only they would take the same discipline in other areas.

 

[RSoxNo1]

So far the only reason I've seen presented for it being "unsuitable" is because they made up the name of a town in Norway instead of just saying it took place in Norway.

I'd have to try really hard to get upset over that.

It's unsuitable because there is nothing culturally significant about the ride or the movie other than the setting. Conversely, Ratatouille and Coco at least have cultural ties to reality.

 

[jakeman]

@Mom and @wdwmagic, can you create a dedicated forum where we're allowed to call out posts like this? I'm trying so hard not to insult someone and it's becoming increasingly more difficult. When a legit consensus of the forum has to question whether or not he's actually trolling us, there needs to be some flexibility to forum rules...

As much as I'd like to agree, that would open a Pandora's (heh) box that would end up with just the last two posters: @wdwmagic and @The Mom arguing with each other.

 

[RSoxNo1]

As much as I'd like to agree, that would open a Pandora's (heh) box that would end up with just the last two posters: @wdwmagic and @The Mom arguing with each other.

I think Steve should change his name to "The Dad"

 

[P_Radden]

I think Steve should change his name to "The Dad"

For some reason I always pictured The Mom as being Steve's mom haha

 

[HauntedMansionFLA]

Not even close.

I'm doing park by park voting on my podcast's Facebook page, yes there's a fanboi bias in the rankings, but here's the mixture of the top 5 at each park:
Magic Kingdom

1. Splash Mountain (ip, but not one they'll talk about)
2. The Haunted Mansion (non-ip)
3. Big Thunder Mountain Railroad (non-ip)
4. Pirates of the Caribbean (ip, but not always)
5. Space Mountain (non-ip)

Epcot

1. Soarin' (non-ip)
2. Spaceship Earth (non-ip)
3. Test Track (non-ip)
4. Living with the Land (non-ip)
5. Illuminations: Reflections of Earth (non-ip)

(FYI, Frozen was 6th)

Hollywood Studios

1. Tower of Terror (ip based, albeit old ip)
2. Toy Story (ip)
3. Rock 'n' Roller Coaster (ip based, but not movie)
4. Star Tours (ip)
5. Great Movie Ride (several ips)

Animal Kingdom

1. Expedition Everest (non-ip)
2. Kilimanjaro Safaris (non-ip)
3. DINOSAUR (ip... barely)
4. Festival of the Lion King (ip)
5. Finding Nemo the Musical (ip)

Are you allowed to promote your facebook page to view the voting? Interesting voting - MK is spot on. Kilimqnjaro Safaris is the best ride at WDW but probably too long for most people.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I prefer a balance, but Iger and Co prefer anything but.

Looking for balance is no better than Iger's criteria as it is still an external criteria not related to the actual experience.

They're good animatronics, but mediocre (at best) sets. The animatronics have had a ridiculous amount of issues though.

What about them is good? That just keeps getting repeated.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

How about turning Future World into a Zootopian city?

That would check all the boxes for fans and management.

And now I will take a step back and watch that compute.

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

It's unsuitable because there is nothing culturally significant about the ride or the movie other than the setting. Conversely, Ratatouille and Coco at least have cultural ties to reality.

And a made-up setting at that. Let's face it. Management wanted to financially capitalize on the movie's success and well, Arendelle can pass as Norway for the most part, so screw thematic integrity, in it goes!

 

[RSoxNo1]

Looking for balance is no better than Iger's criteria as it is still an external criteria not related to the actual experience.

Outside of MGM/Hollywood Studios any successful Disney park has existed with a balance of intellectual properties and original concepts. I discuss this at length in a recent MiceChat article.
http://micechat.com/148461-fixing-epcot/

What about them is good? That just keeps getting repeated.

A few things. First, they need to be working properly. With that caveat I think the motion in the Olaf animatronics is very good as is the Elsa animatronic on the balcony. It's fluid, and impressive.

It doesn't get mentioned much, but I also think the projected faces work exceptionally well on the trolls.

Now, stop making me defend Frozen Ever After.

 

[PorterRedkey]

I've always thought that the biggest thing that hurt Maelstrom was its initial advertising that made it seem like "EPCOT Center's first thrill ride", when it was never meant to be more than a D-ticket...a D-ticket I loved, granted, but still, it created expectations that the ride couldn't meet. I remember going on during extra hours in 2012 with some friends; we had almost all been on the ride before then in years past, but the long wait we had that night left them feeling a bit underwhelmed with the ride. And why not? As Martin says, everybody, even us fans of the ride, would agree that it was dated and needed some love, plus much like with The Living Seas they stopped having the film portion be an integrated part of the attraction, and instead let guests dash right through the room and to the exit without a second thought. That really ate into the overall experience, which was meant to include the ride itself, the quiet nighttime Norwegian village you exit into, and then Spirit of Norway; taken together, it was a really nice experience; never the E-ticket they originally hyped it to be, but a very complete and satisfying one that, as of the '00s and '10s, was really in need of some TLC to make it live again.

Honestly, I think a lot of these arguments keep devolving into strawman territory. I consider myself a mega-EPCOT Center fan, but I'd be among the first to say that if Horizons were still around today and stood unaltered that it'd be in dire, dire need of a refresh to make it relevant in the 2010s. The hang up, however, would be the way that a refresh would be done; I want a relevant Horizons, but I'd still want it to be Horizons deep down at its core, not an attraction that defaults to either corporate synergy or quick-fix band aids that don't have much of a shelf life.

To reiterate a point, I can't help but think that if Disney had taken over Imagination and Horizons along with Spaceship Earth, and kept them decently updated and largely true to their original spirit (e.g. the way they handle the Orlando Haunted Mansion, where people may like or dislike the occasional changes but still can experience the heart of the attraction), then even the most diehard old school EPCOT Center fan would likely be much more forgiving of a lot of the lesser decisions they've made in the park over the years.

Truth! I loved Horizons and Maelstrom, but they need to be updated (not reimagined) just like the other classic attractions. You have stated this very well @RoysCabin.

 

[MisterPenguin]

As far as architecture goes, the queue for FEA and the Sommerhus are as faithfully Norwegian as the mishmash of architectural styles and periods that are on display in Italy are Italian. "But Arendelle isn't a real town in Norway!" OK, what real town is represented in the Italy pavilion? In Germany? In the UK?

What was added architecturally for the Frozen ride and M&G is as perfectly Norwegian as the Stave Church and Akershus. Stop by the Stave Church and see how the animators of Frozen attempted to be as faithful to a general Norwegian style of the period in question as possible for an animated feature. Likewise, the Imagineers for the Norway expansion went to Norway to re-create Norwegian architecture as much as possible. If Maelstrom was 'refreshed' and this is the architecture you got, you'd be standing on your heads and applauding Disney.

So, don't dis the architecture because you think the IP is out of place.

As far as the IP goes, I'll take a Scandinavian Ice Queen and her friendly trolls over Odin and the creepy trolls. I've been on it three times and enjoyed it each time. (All FPs, I wouldn't wait an hour for any ride.)

If you think Maelstrom could have been refreshed without the Frozen IP, then pitch us your ideas that would have made Maelstrom 2.0 as popular as FEA.

 

[The Mom]

For some reason I always pictured The Mom as being Steve's mom haha

I am definitely old enough to be his mom.

My avatar photo is 16 years old!!! Just add a lot more grey.

 

[rudyjr13]

@Mom and @wdwmagic, can you create a dedicated forum where we're allowed to call out posts like this? I'm trying so hard not to insult someone and it's becoming increasingly more difficult. When a legit consensus of the forum has to question whether or not he's actually trolling us, there needs to be some flexibility to forum rules...

It's your own fault for replying to them. If everyone stopped they would go away. That particular user has been on ignore for years...