Bob Chapek Confirms Disney Will Overhaul Epcot

[lazyboy97o]

Outside of MGM/Hollywood Studios any successful Disney park has existed with a balance of intellectual properties and original concepts. I discuss this at length in a recent MiceChat article.
http://micechat.com/148461-fixing-epcot/

You're seeing a pattern in outcome and trying to turn it into a process. It shouldn't matter if the best stories tend to be more of this or more of that, they should just be the best stories.

A few things. First, they need to be working properly. With that caveat I think the motion in the Olaf animatronics is very good as is the Elsa animatronic on the balcony. It's fluid, and impressive.

It doesn't get mentioned much, but I also think the projected faces work exceptionally well on the trolls.

Now, stop making me defend Frozen Ever After.

Olaf's movement has no real life equivalent that it is imitating. Elsa is anything but fluid. Watch her hands, they move as if they are being pulled around and not moved by her.

The troll faces are by far the best use of the projected faces, but a good effect does not an attraction make.

 

[Goofyernmost]

I am definitely old enough to be his mom.

My avatar photo is 16 years old!!! Just add a lot more grey.

I'm sure you are still as fetching as ever. Grey probably becomes you! The rest of us just get old, you more then likely age like fine wine. Better every day.

Spoiler

Did I lay that on thick enough, cause I could throw more compliments out if it helps.

 

[Cesar R M]

not being a charity

They did fine before, and they werent a charity either..

 

[Cesar R M]

Frozen is a new, original IP.

Except it isnt?

Why reinvent the teddy bear – what was that bland thing called? - when you have a Winnie the Pooh?

Why reinvent the original tale of "The snow queen" then?
Isnt what Disney did for a century? (little mermaid, snow white, etc..)

 

[Cesar R M]

I am definitely old enough to be his mom.

My avatar photo is 16 years old!!! Just add a lot more grey.

Age doesnt means as much as long you keep kicking and living!

 

[Jamesdusoleil]

I'd like to see Future World done up a little like Shanghai's Tomorrowland. There are some really cool parts to it. It's got that future feel without being too "NASA". And they really should overload the technology for the area. Do updates to "the sidewalk". And I personally wouldn't like GOTG in Epcot. I can't see it being benificial.

Nemo brings you to a huge area full of exhibits. Frozen is inside a facade that represents authentic Norwegian architecture. As well as the food and the story itself is Norwegian. With it came the museum out in the church talking about the cultural references in the movie. So yes, it fits. Mexico has the grand fiesta tour. It's inside the pavilion and it features many landmarks of Mexico and showcases much of the culture ala small world style. But you literally pass displays of Mexican culture to get to the ride.

So they all fit the Epcot theme. Guardians....ummmm....I got nothing. Space maybe? Even though we have mission space.

 

[Goofyernmost]

They did fine before, and they werent a charity either..

You see, Cesar, this is why we sometimes clash. You focused on four words taking them completely out of context. The entire post (below) explains what I was saying and why it did fine before. The world was completely different then and they were selling a new product. Untested and unproven over time. That is no longer the case. I don't think for a second that it is a good thing. In fact, the opposite. However, it is the world today and we all live in the world today.

That is a very noble desire, however, not being a charity they without a doubt will go the direction that will assure their survival, not just hope for it. Unlike the Disney of old that didn't have a lot to lose, todays Disney does indeed have that plus a lot of investors to answer too. That lowest common denominator is exactly who their main source of income comes from. If nothing else has been proven this year, todays wealth has a very large number of low denominator members.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I'd like to see Future World done up a little like Shanghai's Tomorrowland. There are some really cool parts to it. It's got that future feel without being too "NASA". And they really should overload the technology for the area. Do updates to "the sidewalk". And I personally wouldn't like GOTG in Epcot. I can't see it being benificial.

Tomorrowland at Shanghai Disneyland is an organizational mess and not much more than a plaza with a giant roof structure that cost way too much.

Nemo brings you to a huge area full of exhibits. Frozen is inside a facade that represents authentic Norwegian architecture. As well as the food and the story itself is Norwegian. With it came the museum out in the church talking about the cultural references in the movie. So yes, it fits. Mexico has the grand fiesta tour. It's inside the pavilion and it features many landmarks of Mexico and showcases much of the culture ala small world style. But you literally pass displays of Mexican culture to get to the ride.

A wrapping or stuff along the way is not the heart of an experience.

 

[Otterhead]

Olaf's movement has no real life equivalent that it is imitating.

Given that he's a cartoon living snowman with no feet, I think his AA does a great job of capturing the movement of a cartoon living snowman. I know that when he skated up to the boat, I heard people gasp. He moves the way he did in the movie, which is impressive.

 

[lazyboy97o]

View attachment 182756

2015

And 2015 comes before or after 1979?

 

[wdisney9000]

With it came the museum out in the church talking about the cultural references in the movie. So yes, it fits

It fits like a round peg into a square hole. Using cultural references as definitive logic does not make it accurate or even respectful to the history of the culture being referenced.

 

[wdisney9000]

And 2015 comes before or after 1979?

You can get a good look at a t-bone by sticking your head up a butchers........No, wait. Its gotta be your bull.

 

[wdisney9000]

The Haunted Mansion is an IP Because of the god awful Eddie Murphy movie and that semi okay Marvel comic book. Big Thunder Mountain because it's in the works right now of being turned into a television show, and which is also a Marvel comic book. Pirates of the Carribean is an IP, so i have no idea why you're saying "it's not always"

Haunted Mansion, POTC, and BTMRR were already Intellectual Properties before there was a movie/tv show/comic book based off them. They did not "become" one after the fact. The difference is that these attractions were so wonderfully and carefully created that their unique stories were inspirational enough to become more. Those are the type of attractions the company once sought to produce.

Even using Splash Mountain as an example of an existing story turned into a ride blows away the latest endeavours by the company, i.e FEA.

 

[DDLand]

So far the only reason I've seen presented for it being "unsuitable" is because they made up the name of a town in Norway instead of just saying it took place in Norway.

I'd have to try really hard to get upset over that.

Aside from the many content/placement complaints, another casualty of this poor thinking is the Norway Pavilion itself. The original design was something you travelled into. A plaza. You could enjoy the shops, dining, and exhibits all surrounding a celebration of a Norwegian Town. There was even some kinetics up above with waterfall and boats; easily making this one of the most exciting pavilions. There was one other part of the pavilion, an additional seating area that was accessed through the bakery. All the same, the core Norway Pavilion was one square.

Then Frozen happened.

I like to think with this change they essentially opened a whole new country. The two halfs of Norway don't flow. It's a strange situation that forces guests onto the promenade if, for example, they finish riding FEA and they want to look at a shop with more than Frozen gear. While the hill country/rural area is very pretty, it doesn't fit into the bigger picture all that well. Then there's the situation of the actual Town Square. Half of it has become a Frozen Queue that easily has waits of 90-120 Minutes. Part of actually making it convincing was the depth of the area. How many Norwegian towns have Queues to a Frozen Ride spilling out into important town areas (not many)? In addition, we also lost part of the kinetics with the boats.

Between queues for the restaurant and ride, the main Pavilion that did something besides providing very nice restrooms and meet and greets is damaged or even gone. At the very least it pales in comparison to what it once was.

All because of poor planning and poor use of IP. If this sort of thing is the new normal, that's disappointing.

(how many rural Norwegian Villages have royalty doing meet and greets daily- sorry, I couldn't help myself )

 

[lazyboy97o]

Obviously after. What kind of dumb question is that?

You're the one who seems to be having trouble with chronology, saying things are based on what came after.

They became one after the movies and other properties based on them were released with the exception of Splash Mountain. For example, Jack Sparrow wasn't even in the original Pirates of the Carribean ride. But after the movie, they added him, Davey Jones and Black Beard and changed the story. So now it's not the original Pirates of the Carribean, it's the Pirates of the Carribean from the movies

Being intellectual property does not happen only after certain mediums are used. Pirates of the Caribbean became an intellectual property in the 1960s when it was created.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think you need glasses. Either that, or just read carefully as to what i said. I said, "there is a Marvel comic book about the ride". Never said it came before or after Big Thunder Mountain opened.

The comic book is not what made Big Thunder Mountain Railroad an intellectual property, that occurred in the 1970s.

 

[marni1971]

Forum T&Cs:

"4. Posts should always be constructive and on topic."

 

[Earl Sweatpants]

I think you need glasses. Either that, or just read carefully as to what i said. I said, "there is a Marvel comic book about the ride". Never said it came before or after Big Thunder Mountain opened.

Come on man. You were clearly trying to point out that Haunted Mansion and BTMRR were IPs because they have movies and comics made about them. But that's not how it works. Some can argue that HM was loosely inspired by the haunted house movies of Vincent Price, but on the whole, both attractions were original thought creations of Walt Disney Imagineering.

 

[CJR]

The animatronic motion is superb. The sets however are adequate at best. The "story" laughable.

Wait for Tokyo. Eventually.

Although, isn't SoCal supposed to get something like Tokyo? Of course, no doubt, OLC will do it right while even Anaheim will find ways to make cuts. But, having the ride in English will probably be best for many of us here in America (not to mention, that's a heck of a flight from the east coast).

I know our ride's where it is, but I'd love for them to eventually go in and plus it at least. I won't hold my breath on it, but i'd be nice. Then again, they should probably spend money improving Fantasyland's ancient dark rides first.

 

[RSoxNo1]

You're seeing a pattern in outcome and trying to turn it into a process. It shouldn't matter if the best stories tend to be more of this or more of that, they should just be the best stories.

You're right in that it's not impossible for Disney to do a park without characters. However, there is an unwillingness to do so. Any cohesive theme now and in the future needs to allow for both. Guest demand typically fuels this and Walt understood this. There is a story that you may have heard about guests walking across a particular area and Imagineers getting upset by this. Walt told them not to be upset and had them put a path in that area.

Conversely, Disney has long succeeded by creating things people didn't know they wanted. That's where I see a need for a healthy mixture of both.

Olaf's movement has no real life equivalent that it is imitating. Elsa is anything but fluid. Watch her hands, they move as if they are being pulled around and not moved by her.

Yes, there are no walking snowmen in real life, but they have created a physical animatronic that accurately mimics what the character does in CGI. That's a good thing and can't be dismissed. Admittedly I've only see the Elsa animatronic working correctly 1 of the 3 times I've ridden the attraction but I was impressed. I'll look for the "pulled around" feel that you stated.

The troll faces are by far the best use of the projected faces, but a good effect does not an attraction make.

Agreed.

Here's how I approach things though. I try not to let my predisposition dictate my opinions. It's nearly an impossible task, but it's one that happens so much now. I was amongst the loudest voices against Frozen Ever After from it's inception and I stand by everything I said. However, if you take the attraction as it is, in a vacuum it's a solid C/mediocre D-ticket with poor capacity. It's far from perfect, but the scale is appropriate for that level of attraction. It never promised to be an E-ticket, nor should it be judged accordingly.

Beyond it's placement and capacity, the issue I have with the ride itself is that the scenes aren't particularly developed. That adds to sense of scale and it's largely what separates a C ticket from a D ticket or an E ticket.