Bloggers and Podcasters need to be controlled

[WDW1974]

Yes. This.
The last thing we need is an unofficial propaganda arm of Disney PR to assist in shouting down or glossing over any of the legitimate issues that are plaguing the resort.

I think I'll wear a polo shirt with a mouse on it, grab a video camera and a mic and go interview guests at the MK.
Wonder how long before I get escorted out...

I don't think you'd look good in a polo. You're not a polo kind of dude. ... But, yeah, I'd love to interview whomever I pleased whenever. ... I remember in another lifetime, how I had to give publicity the slip to talk to guests at the Contemporary pool about unmagical things to help out another journalist when I was vacationing at the World.

Disney controls all on its property (now... wait for it ... 7, 6, 5. ... here it comes 3, 2, 1 ... someone start the Disney is private property, yada, yada, BS).

I'd love to give Spirited tours. Mine wouldn't simply be cobbled together by things that have been on the Internet since the mid-90s. I'd give tours based on personal knowledge and experience ... do you think if I leave out sordid details of Imagineer/fanboi hookups or what princes used to engage in with each other where Cindy's Castle suite is now that Disney would let me make $400-1000 an hour?

Yes, Lee, you would qualify for the Friends and Family 25% off discount.

I'm not looking to control the press, not at all.

I'm just looking to keep the line between "press" and "fan" visible. Podcasters and bloggers can say whatever they want. But it should be well known that they are not "press" nor are they real "media." They are simply fans that have figured out a way to get Disney to give them free stuff in exchange for positive reviews or commentary.

THIS, THIS and THIS!!!

Bloggers and podcasters and lifestylers are NOT media. They may write or talk about WDW, but they are not press. And the idea that because they'll cover a second Dumbo spinner opening when real media won't doesn't change a thing. Real media covers Disney on issues that are important to many people, not something that only fans would have an interest in (and not all fans either!)

 

[WDW1974]

Well hate to name names... But like if I took a whole mess of DHS pics, bundled them in an ebook, and charged 10 bucks a download-not kosher? Got it

It might not be Kosher, but Disney wouldn't go after you.

Anyone and everyone can put out an ebook and many Lifestyle whores are doing so. They aren't asking permission and Disney Legal isn't coming down on them either.

They are picking and choosing ...

 

[Bolna]

I think this new video posted by Lou's site is a clear indication of the concerns with Disney's control over fan sites.

Interestingly I can't view this video here in Germany due to copyright reasons - not Disney's though, the underlying music is the problem...

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think this new video posted by Lou's site is a clear indication of the concerns with Disney's control over fan sites.

That was just bizarre.

 

[Bolna]

Plus real journalists might notice something else while they are there.

Yep - and there we are back at the issue of using podcasters and bloggers to control the message.

 

[WDW1974]

Disney should be very concerned about the unlicensed, positive materials, especially those that try to blur their unofficial nature. The reason Disney gained a reputation for being so hard on people using their intellectual property (such as the infamous daycare incident) is because protecting your intellectual property is part of the law, especially from uses which could be misconstrued as official. Disney allowing, and condoning through omission, the use of their intellectual property could be used as evidence that Disney is not protecting its intellectual property and thus should forfeit its rights to said property.

This is of huge concern to anyone with IP to protect. Disney once controlled its images, characters, attractions etc with an iron fist, but now ... well, it sorta depends on who is stealing it. I have yet to get anyone to explain to me how Jeff Lange gets away with selling DVDs. It's IP theft for profit pure and simple.

But your point is very true and troubling. When you make exceptions you weaken IP laws across the board. That harms anyone in a creative field. ... I do find it amusing when someone will 'borrow' one of these social media lifestylers pics or video how fast they are to jump on people for 'stealing' their property without giving credit. I just find that hysterical and as my friends (Lee too!) would tell you, I have an awful sense of humour.

 

[WDW1974]

Assuming the book is created by the photographer, and assuming no permission from the owner of the subject IP:

With regard to the architecture of the parks, this is a grey area of law. The landmark case of Rock & Roll v. Gentile really muddied the water there; since, different circuit courts have handed down wildly different decisions on this. For further reading on this subject, I recommend this: http://law.wustl.edu/journal/2/p517spence.pdf

Keep in mind that's specific to architecture. Characters are a totally different story.

Not at all grey when Disney doesn't wish there to be, Tom. ... BTW, have I missed it or have you ever taken pics at UNI or SW parks (sorry, that was a small shot at someone I like and respect, but you see the slippery slope of dealing with Disney doncha?)

I have mentioned before that I have a friend (no, I am NOT talking about myself or a family member) who takes amazing pictures and she wanted to use some from DLR on postcards, mugs, magnets etc ... Most of them, you'd never even know were taken at DLR, even as a fan. I told her to just do it, but she's about permission and being stopped at Harbor Blvd and turned away if Disney found out.

So, she professionally (and she is a true pro and not a lifestyler; she has a REAL career) went through the proper channels and was totally shot down and warned of a cease and desist and harming her working relationship with TWDC. Meanwhile, IP theft for profit goes on unchecked.

 

[WDW1974]

Definitely true in theory, but in practice, Disney doesn't have any cognizable trademark "genericide" concerns like Xerox, Thermos, or Q-Tips have had.

I think the daycare incident marked a shift in the approach of Disney Legal on these matters. That, or some house-cleaning occurred after that debacle. With how public the Kimball author has made his 'issues' with Disney, and the negative press they've received over that, it wouldn't surprise me if he soon gets clearance. If the mainstream media picked up that story, it certainly would not paint Disney in a positive light.

I would hope so. I know a little bit more about this story, but since I am aquainted with John and Virginia (Ward Kimball's son and daughter in law) I don't feel comfortable writing about it online.

I do have an inkling that the book will go out untouched by Disney's white-glove treatment.

Oh, and just because it hasn't been reported in mainstream media, doesn't preclude that from happening in the future if things don't get ironed out.

 

[lazyboy97o]

This is of huge concern to anyone with IP to protect. Disney once controlled its images, characters, attractions etc with an iron fist, but now ... well, it sorta depends on who is stealing it. I have yet to get anyone to explain to me how Jeff Lange gets away with selling DVDs. It's IP theft for profit pure and simple.

Wasn't Extinct Attractions shut down for doing something similar, but with well loved attractions and experiences that were no longer "relevant?"

But your point is very true and troubling. When you make exceptions you weaken IP laws across the board. That harms anyone in a creative field. ... I do find it amusing when someone will 'borrow' one of these social media lifestylers pics or video how fast they are to jump on people for 'stealing' their property without giving credit. I just find that hysterical and as my friends (Lee too!) would tell you, I have an awful sense of humour.

Not surprising at all. I saw enough of that self-rightous drama when I made the mistake of peeking in the Twitverse over the Spiltsville event.

 

[the.dreamfinder]

I do have an inkling that the book will go out untouched by Disney's white-glove treatment.

These gloves?

 

[the.dreamfinder]

Wasn't Extinct Attractions shut down for doing something similar, but with well loved attractions and experiences that were no longer "relevant?"

I wanna say that guy was pretty shady and some members have said that he would charge their credit cards and not ship the dvds in a timely manner.

EDIT: It appears he also received the hammer of justice.
http://www.magicmusic.net/topic/322...avid-oneal/page__st__280__p__32070#entry32070

Fun Fact: When Mitch from Imagineering Disney met John Lasseter, he saw a stack of extinct attractions DVDs in his office. I hope he's seen Martin's Vids since then!

 

[WDW1974]

Should be escorted off property and be issued a cease and desist order.
Wonder why that isn't happening...

Why do YOU think that isn't happening?

Why is LOU so special?

How come he gets away with whatever he wants (no matter how boorish) while at WDW or on DCL and no one says BOO?

What do YOU think?

 

[WDW1974]

The bloggers I know do not get free trips.

Surprising. Then you don't know the ones I assumed you did.

Cruises on the new ships, trips out to Aluani, stays at the Animation hotel, free accommodations during press events (even for locals...), etc.
Happens all the time.

Maybe Dave needs new blogger pals? The bigger ones get free trips.

And people who live 10 minutes from WDW have been given free hotel stays.
Even small-timers with visions of being the next Lou ...

On a different subject, but the same large one, do you know when ABC or WFTV (local O-Town ABC affiliate) is at WDW doing reports that they are not ever mistaken for being Disney employees (even though in the real sense, they are). ... Yet, how often do you think people like Lou and others with lanyards and official looking shirts and caps and backpacks and sometimes using the classic Disney fonts ARE mistaken for Disney officials?

 

[WDW1974]

Of course. That's a huge part of the issue here.
I want to see them be honest about it and also earn it. If your site or blog or tweets don't reach more than a few hundred people per day...GTFOff the gravy train.

That also opens the entire metrics by which these people are measured. No matter what Voce Communications might tell the Celebration Place Social Media Cabal (they have a dragon as their mascot with Tink on its nose!), this is anything but an exact science. And no metrics that I am aware of for determining how ANY of these social media sites help Disney's daily per share price have ever been created.

Why don't we all just give up this whole discussion and agree that the entire prupose of Social Media as used by TWDC (whether you love it, hate it or just don't care) as damage control for all the free and open forums that discuss all the legit and measurable problems with the product? Just admit it and move on ...

And, I want to see Disney keep the playing field level. If Lou can interview guests in the MK for his show, let everyone do it. Especially real news outlets. If WESH (for example) can't operate in the parks, then nobody should.

I agree, but as I've stated people will bring up the private property BS line. Malls are private property too, so aren't hotels ... many businesses and guess what? Bad things happen at them. Robberies, fights, child abductions, even rapes and murders ... that doesn't allow the owners to simply push the media off the property. They aren't the same as a private residence. They are places of public accomodation and commerce. They can only be pushed to a barrier created by the police to investigate whatever incident has taken place. ... I do think it has something to do with democracy or something, freedom of the press or something ... but maybe I'm wrong since I've lived in China and know what communism is (see: how Disney treats local media) ... or maybe it's just the sheer magnitude of power wrought by the Reedy Creek Improvement District, right?

 

[Goofyernmost]

I think this new video posted by Lou's site is a clear indication of the concerns with Disney's control over fan sites.

OK, I watched the video and didn't get a clear indication of the concerns about Disney's control of fan sites. Or are you guys expecting that someone that makes his living promoting "the magic" is going to swing the camera around and say, "well, it would be a nice place but look at that paint chip" or maybe "It's OK but not like it used to be". How long do you think they would keep their fan base if they went all microscopic on our butts.

People don't tune into those things to hear what's wrong, they want their particular fascination fortified. Being Debbie Downer is your jobs (you know who you are). I know that you have the best interest of WDW at heart, that's not the point. The point is that a basic rule of business is you give the consumer what they want.

There are many avenues to take if you want the unvarnished truth. These discussion boards for one. I will repeat, no one but you folks gives a rats tail about whether or not he get a free ride. In fact, most assume he is, at the very least, an employee (excuse me..CM). Apparently that's what Disney wants. They let the guy in Comp. him park admission, let him interview because they know that he will act as Disney PR and say what Disney wants to hear. He is, and others like him, Disney's dream, cheap promotional puppet and no one cares. Who do you think they are kidding or for that matter who do you think cares one way or the other. They have a Disney obsession and they want to have someone tell them why that is OK.

Look at it from Disney's viewpoint...no salaries, no Social Security matching fees, no benefits, no retirements just good old positive coverage. And it really costs them nothing to let him in. They have their reasons for doing that for some and not for others. Whether we like what these people are saying, or in this case, not saying, it really doesn't matter and never will.

 

[asianway]

Why do YOU think that isn't happening?

Why is LOU so special?

How come he gets away with whatever he wants (no matter how boorish) while at WDW or on DCL and no one says BOO?

What do YOU think?

Ummm it rhymes with bickkack?

 

[lazyboy97o]

I've been repeatedly confused for a manager just for wearing a shirt and slacks at Walt Disney World. I have a hard time believing similar thoughts are not jumped to with a group of people sporting Disney's logotypes.

 

[asianway]

OK, I watched the video and didn't get a clear indication of the concerns about Disney's control of fan sites. Or are you guys expecting that someone that makes his living promoting "the magic" is going to swing the camera around and say, "well, it would be a nice place but look at that paint chip" or maybe "It's OK but not like it used to be". How long do you think they would keep their fan base if they went all microscopic on our butts.

People don't tune into those things to hear what's wrong, they want their particular fascination fortified. Being Debbie Downer is your jobs (you know who you are). I know that you have the best interest of WDW at heart, that's not the point. The point is that a basic rule of business is you give the consumer what they want.

There are many avenues to take if you want the unvarnished truth. These discussion boards for one. I will repeat, no one but you folks gives a rats tail about whether or not he get a free ride. In fact, most assume he is, at the very least, an employee (excuse me..CM). Apparently that's what Disney wants. They let the guy in Comp. him park admission, let him interview because they know that he will act as Disney PR and say what Disney wants to hear. He is, and others like him, Disney's dream, cheap promotional puppet and no one cares. Who do you think they are kidding or for that matter who do you think cares one way or the other. They have a Disney obsession and they want to have someone tell them why that is OK.

Look at it from Disney's viewpoint...no salaries, no Social Security matching fees, no benefits, no retirements just good old positive coverage. And it really costs them nothing to let him in. They have their reasons for doing that for some and not for others. Whether we like what these people are saying, or in this case, not saying, it really doesn't matter and never will.

Sounds like a DOL case waiting to pop

 

[Goofyernmost]

Sounds like a DOL case waiting to pop

If your referring to Department of Labor (it's hard to keep up here) nothing will ever pop. He is an independent, not paid by Disney with no paper trail. Besides that DOL doesn't get involved with anything unless there is a complaint and even then they almost never take action but tell others whether or not they think they have a case and then stand back and let them finance and instigate the lawsuits. Unless it's something really awful, like slave labor or something, they do not take any action on their own.

 

[asianway]

If your referring to Department of Labor (it's hard to keep up here) nothing will ever pop. He is an independent, not paid by Disney with no paper trail. Besides that DOL doesn't get involved with anything unless there is a complaint and even then they almost never take action but tell others whether or not they think they have a case and then stand back and let them finance and instigate the lawsuits. Unless it's something really awful, like slave labor or something, they do not take any action on their own.

Not true-Ive seen DOL folks talk it up with employees leading to rulings unfavorable to the employer even though no complaint was filed. And if one were filed, well it's not like any of these guys are lawyers or anything