Big Thunder Mountain Refurb

[BigThunderMatt]

on my recent trip to the world i talked with an imagineer on a late bus ride. he said they will be replacing a lot of the track beams, just like thy did with the space mountain refurb

Space Mountain at DLR or Space Mountain at WDW? DLR's had its entire track replaced before the 50th and that took nearly two years.

None of WDW's track was replaced AFAIK. The whole reasoning behind that was they were going to because it would have been required for the trains to have on-board audio, but when they scrapped the on-board audio due to the decreased refurbishment length they no longer needed to replace the track so they just spot-welded and replaced small parts where required.

 

[bennyw01]

on my recent trip to the world i talked with an imagineer on a late bus ride. he said they will be replacing a lot of the track beams, just like thy did with the space mountain refurb

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sharpimage/3299348446/

 

[maxairmike]

I'm still inclined to disagree. I'll be in Florida late January/early February and I'll be paying considerably less for my room, my flight and rental car than I would be if I visited only a month earlier. In spite of paying so much less I fully expect my hotel, airline and car rental firm to give me exactly the same product.

I've been on a few cruises and when I've travelled off-peak the experience was exactly the same. There were no decks closed for refurbishment and all the surf machines, climbing walls and whatever extras they entice us with on the commercials were all fully operational. I paid less but still got the same treatment as someone who'd paid two or three times more.

The airlines have fleets of planes, and have a regular cycle for maintenance so that they don't have to cut in on regular, expected routes. Same with a hotel; there are multiples of the same room so they can fix one (or more) at a time without seriously impacting availability. Ever notice the gaps between cruises for individual ships? Those are spent in dry docks or moored for regular maintenance. I have never known a ship to be scheduled 24/7 for an entire year.

Your intended comparison falls apart immediately. There is only one Big Thunder, Small World, Space Mountain, etc. These require routine maintenance just like other large, complex machines, which means they must be closed for an extended amount of time. When would you like them to do that? During their peak seasons? Be real. These are complex machines that require extended, regular maintenance periods. I understand you might feel there should be pricing differences at the park ticket level, but for a resort such as Disney, the real cost of the vacation (and thus, profit for the resort) is in your room cost. Across the industry admission is at best a break even point, but more often a losing point. Lowered hotel prices at a resort such as Disney don't indicate just a lower demand, but also a possible loss of some things you may expect around the resort.

All the other examples you gave have the ability for downtime to be absorbed by other means (or replacements). Disney's attractions do not.

 

[WDW1974]

It's just absurd entitlement mentality to assume every attraction should be open for one's visit.

That's not how you keep parks looking and running their best daily for ALL guests.

WDW is the only resort where they seem afraid (good excuse) to close ANY attractions ever, let alone major attractions at the same time for needed work.

Fix the damn things and do regular upkeep and a majority of people will be happy a majority of the time.

~GFC: You Only Wish!~

 

[lazyboy97o]

No attitude meant, I'm not a fan of using smilies. I apologise.

I understand the hotels having different seasons but the parks to me are a different issue. As I've just posted, if there was an off-peak ticket you can say that you've got less but paid less. But when you're paying the same it tends to stick in the craw when attractions are closed and you're supposed to be ok with it.

I'm still inclined to disagree. I'll be in Florida late January/early February and I'll be paying considerably less for my room, my flight and rental car than I would be if I visited only a month earlier. In spite of paying so much less I fully expect my hotel, airline and car rental firm to give me exactly the same product.

The problem with your premise is that it assumes that one is purchasing admission to a specified set of attractions and/or a specific park. One purchases admission to a Walt Disney World park(s). Disney has never made promises of certain attractions or experiences being included with admission. You purchase admission to a park which has dynamic offerings and that are different from the other parks with which you can use your ticket to gain admission.

 

[janoimagine]

I'm still inclined to disagree. I'll be in Florida late January/early February and I'll be paying considerably less for my room, my flight and rental car than I would be if I visited only a month earlier. In spite of paying so much less I fully expect my hotel, airline and car rental firm to give me exactly the same product.

I've been on a few cruises and when I've travelled off-peak the experience was exactly the same. There were no decks closed for refurbishment and all the surf machines, climbing walls and whatever extras they entice us with on the commercials were all fully operational. I paid less but still got the same treatment as someone who'd paid two or three times more.

I'm pretty sure that although the meals in some of WDW's restaurants are of the same quality in the off season, even though you pay more at peak. So, to the unsuspecting eye, when a layperson decides to spend, let's face it, a large amount of money on park tickets (and "park tickets" are the key words here) and sees that the ticket cost is constant throughout the year, he has a right to feel aggrieved when more rides are closed just because he chose to go off peak. And this isn't about me personally, this will be my fifth trip and I know that there will closures, but it's about what is deemed as an "acceptable" number of closures. To date I'll have BTMR, Fantasmic and Dumbo down for my visit which is just about acceptable, but not too long ago people were posting it would be OK to shut down Splash Mountain and Test Track too at the same time and to me that's too much. WDW is now a year round resort and all the work should be spread year round and not rushed through winter to make everything marvellous for the no-more- important summer guests.

The fine print on the tickets you purchase clearly states:
'Parks, attractions or entertainment may change operating hours; close due to refurbishing, capacity, weather or special events; and may otherwise change or be discontinued without notice and without liability to the owners of the Walt Disney World® Resort.'
It's a disclamer, not sure what else to tell you.

 

[nor'easter]

It's just absurd entitlement mentality to assume every attraction should be open for one's visit.

That's not how you keep parks looking and running their best daily for ALL guests.

WDW is the only resort where they seem afraid (good excuse) to close ANY attractions ever, let alone major attractions at the same time for needed work.

Fix the damn things and do regular upkeep and a majority of people will be happy a majority of the time.

~GFC: You Only Wish!~

Exactly.

Check out the Tokyo Disneyland site. At ANY given time in the year something will be down for refurbishment. The results are beautiful, fully functional attractions. Unfortunately, Disney World management is more concerned with the Jane Doe tourists who will accept inferior products.

 

[janoimagine]

Disney World management is more concerned with the Jane Doe tourists who will accept inferior products.

Sadly I think your right, on our recent trip we did a 3 day cruise on the Dream followed by 7 nights at the Wilderness Lodge, I wish I had done it in reverse, because the level of service and attention to detail on the Cruise is true old school Disney, the parks were a small let down after that. Parks and Resorts could learn a ton from the Cruise line, and this is coming from someone who didn't want to do the cruise, had never been on a cruise, and bleeds for Disney World.

I literally was able to get to do several research polls between the parks and resorts, and one for the cruise line that required me to sign an NDA, but on the P&R Polls, I voiced my opinion.

You know its bad when you see several cast members walk right over trash on the ground in a deluxe resort, in it's lobby none the less, it's simply unacceptable. When I get some free time I will put this all in my trip report.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Exactly.

Check out the Tokyo Disneyland site. At ANY given time in the year something will be down for refurbishment. The results are beautiful, fully functional attractions. Unfortunately, Disney World management is more concerned with the Jane Doe tourists who will accept inferior products.

To it seems as if you are mischaracterizing Jane Joe's position. Her point seems to be that the closure of attractions should be evenly spread throughout the year, versus there being times of year when more attractions are closed.

 

[BigThunderMatt]

To it seems as if you are mischaracterizing Jane Joe's position. Her point seems to be that the closure of attractions should be evenly spread throughout the year, versus there being times of year when more attractions are closed.

Yeah well unfortunately stateside Disney will never close an attraction for refurbishment during a peak period (as in starting and ending within a peak) unless it poses an immediate safety risk. Therefore, non peak periods being used for refurbishment times is about the only other option.

 

[WDW1974]

Exactly.

Check out the Tokyo Disneyland site. At ANY given time in the year something will be down for refurbishment. The results are beautiful, fully functional attractions. Unfortunately, Disney World management is more concerned with the Jane Doe tourists who will accept inferior products.

I don't have to. I went there last November/December so I know firsthand.

That meant I didn't get to see the Mermaid Theater show I had heard such wonderful things about at TDS.

That meant I had my 'once in a lifetime (thus far)' trip ruined :ROFLOL: because I saw the holiday versions of Mansion, CBJ and Small World ... hell, even the holiday version of Dreamlights ... not the original versions.

And I LOVED every single SECOND of it because the parks were amazing. They were clean, everything (and I do mean everything) was working.

I am not at all surprised that people are apologists for the Walmarting of WDW. I live in the USA and have people apologizing all the time for the fact that this old gal ain't what she used to be (or oughta be) either.

Excuses are just that.

And I don't care if a third of WDW's parks are down when I am there, so long as the other 2/3rds are PERFECT and I am getting what I should be for my vacation dollars.

~GFCers are MAGIC!!!~

 

[WDW1974]

Sadly I think your right, on our recent trip we did a 3 day cruise on the Dream followed by 7 nights at the Wilderness Lodge, I wish I had done it in reverse, because the level of service and attention to detail on the Cruise is true old school Disney, the parks were a small let down after that. Parks and Resorts could learn a ton from the Cruise line, and this is coming from someone who didn't want to do the cruise, had never been on a cruise, and bleeds for Disney World.

DCL still puts out an absolutely amazing first class product. I did a two-week Transatlantic on the Magic last year that was one of the best vacations I've ever been on (and I have done many cruises, including Disney, and other crossings with other lines).

WDW can't begin to compare with DCL is the basics. And they're called 'basics' for a reason.

If you enjoyed a three-night cruise, you'd be blown away by a longer one.

I literally was able to get to do several research polls between the parks and resorts, and one for the cruise line that required me to sign an NDA, but on the P&R Polls, I voiced my opinion.

You know its bad when you see several cast members walk right over trash on the ground in a deluxe resort, in it's lobby none the less, it's simply unacceptable. When I get some free time I will put this all in my trip report.

I see that all the time at WDW now. People take it for granted. Of course, there was a time when EVERY CM that saw you was supposed to make eye contact and say 'hello' or ask how you were doing. That doesn't happen. And being welcomed 'home' at a resort's guard gate doesn't mean you can treat me like a nasty relative once I'm there.

CMs are trained (or were) to make eye contact, smile, engage guests, and most definitely pick up trash everywhere (I have watched some high level execs, even people who are employed today, do so).

No excuses for people lowering standards and expectations all the time. ... But fans and social media sites that defend it sure help!

 

[George]

People are being critical of the timing of refurbs, but I wonder if they're being critical of the wrong thing. You could claim that in the case of Splash and BTMRR, WDW has put itself in a bad position because both went for too long without serious maintenance being done. In other words, a maintenance schedule that didn't focus on emergency work could actually bring about a more even handed distribution of timing with respect to refurbs even if attractions went offline more often.

 

[hpyhnt 1000]

People are being critical of the timing of refurbs, but I wonder if they're being critical of the wrong thing. You could claim that in the case of Splash and BTMRR, WDW has put itself in a bad position because both went for too long without serious maintenance being done. In other words, a maintenance schedule that didn't focus on emergency work could actually bring about a more even handed distribution of timing with respect to refurbs even if attractions went offline more often.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[janoimagine]

If you enjoyed a three-night cruise, you'd be blown away by a longer one.

I am pretty sure next year we are going to do the 7 night Western Carribean on the Fantasy, and only 2 or 3 days, if at all in the parks, the only reason being would be to see the opening of the new Fantasyland before park ops ruins it with poor maintenance, as well as F&W and the re-opening of reimagined Test Track which a little bird told me will be the first week of October ... the only issue is the mouse still gets your money either way ...

 

[WDW1974]

I am pretty sure next year we are going to do the 7 night Western Carribean on the Fantasy, and only 2 or 3 days, if at all in the parks, the only reason being would be to see the opening of the new Fantasyland before park ops ruins it with poor maintenance, as well as F&W and the re-opening of reimagined Test Track which a little bird told me will be the first week of October ... the only issue is the mouse still gets your money either way ...

I think you'll have a GREAT time (I prefer Eastern ports, but they're both good).

As to Disney getting your money, it's true ... but you are also rewarding a quality product with your hard-earned $$$, while taking them away from a product that is living off a reputation from decades ago.

I spend more on Disney now than probably ever. But that money is spent all across the globe (now at some parks Disney doesn't even own one percent of, others where it is an equity owner etc). WDW, though, gets a tiny fraction of what it got from me in say 1992 or 1998 or 2006 even. ... Some people will say it all goes into the same pie (and that is true to some extent), but I feel good knowing I am rewarding quality and not Walmarting.

~GFC~

 

[R W B]

Last week, they had to evacuate passengers off a train going up one of the highest lifts. I have a pic somewhere if anyone wants to see it.

ummm...what ever happen to this pic? Thats all I really care about lol.

 

[DisneyNme]

Im Definately bummed that BTMRR is closed for our time there in Jan 2012, it has been since 2007 that ive been on the WDW version of the ride. But i do agree that it does need some TLC, as compared the the DLR version i rode in Oct 2010. Both different rides i know, but it seemed as though everything was right on and worked at DLR.

Its been a while since i posted up here.... So I just want to say Hello to all the Disney Lovers out there. :wave:

 

[COProgressFan]

I spend more on Disney now than probably ever. But that money is spent all across the globe (now at some parks Disney doesn't even own one percent of, others where it is an equity owner etc). WDW, though, gets a tiny fraction of what it got from me in say 1992 or 1998 or 2006 even. ... Some people will say it all goes into the same pie (and that is true to some extent), but I feel good knowing I am rewarding quality and not Walmarting.

~GFC~

What's interesting to me is that as WDW performs more and more poorly in recent years, the answer from management seems only to be making the guest experience worse and worse. They see that revenue is down, room nights are down, per guest spending is down, attendance is down, etc., so their grand answer is not to step back and see the why people aren't visiting and spending like they used to (hint, hint...your product isn't as good as it used to be), but to make the product even crappier. It's a vicious cycle they've created. The less people visit, the more inclined they are to make cuts to the quality of the product while simultaneously raising prices. This is your plan to increase revenue? It's completely ridiculous and defies logic.

 

[ToTBellHop]

What's interesting to me is that as WDW performs more and more poorly in recent years, the answer from management seems only to be making the guest experience worse and worse. They see that revenue is down, room nights are down, per guest spending is down, attendance is down, etc., so their grand answer is not to step back and see the why people aren't visiting and spending like they used to (hint, hint...your product isn't as good as it used to be), but to make the product even crappier. It's a vicious cycle they've created. The less people visit, the more inclined they are to make cuts to the quality of the product while simultaneously raising prices. This is your plan to increase revenue? It's completely ridiculous and defies logic.

I thought per-guest spending was UP???

And forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't WDW currently have about $1 billion in expansions under way? I'm not defending some of the recent shortcomings, but not everything is "Declining by Degrees." Main Street is looking gorgeous of late (until the ancient parade comes out every afternoon).