News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

AndyMagic

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
SCOTLORR said:
If height test balloons are being spotted, wouldn't that mean the entire energy pavilion will be demolished and a whole new building will take shape? or is that not necessarily true?
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As someone who's been on this forum since 2002, I've learned not to take height test balloons seriously. Anyone remember all the height test balloons in Adventureland that were supposed to be an indication that Fire Mountain was finally getting built? Ahhh those were the days. All they mean is Disney is THINKING of doing something and they want to test the sight lines. The ratio of attractions that Disney THINKS about building to the number of attractions that gets built is probably 10,000 / 1
 
R

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
I fear the desire to "do it right" somehow gets things bogged down in bureaucracy. Rightly or wrongly, the parks are no longer a fast-changing entity when "Ready, fire, aim" was the mantra. Now it's "Ready (not quite), do another study, ready some more, aim, wait, aim again, fire slowly, fire some more, putz around, bring in the heavy equipment, and slowly make progress . . . . okay, we'll be ready for soft opening in a year, . . . maybe."

Honestly, unless it's adding to an existing footprint ala Soarin', Test Track, and Maelstrom, most true additions seem to take forever. Fantasyland moved pretty quickly, but how long has it been since Avatarland was announced? Will it ever open? We're planning a trip for next summer to Disneyland and hope to see something with StarWarsLand, but understand that basically nothing will be up and running by then.

For comparison, here's the timeline for Disneyland:

August, 1953. 160 acres in Anaheim is purchased.
July 1954. Construction begins.
July 1955. Disneyland opens.

MK, including infrastructure, the monorail, parking lots, boat docks, The Contemporary, and The Polynesian only took about 2 years to build once they got started in 1969.

By comparison, Avatarland was announced in 2013 with concepts, videos, and detailed artwork. By the way, a new nighttime AK show was also announced at the same time. It is now 3 years later, more than a year longer than it took to build all of Disneyland and the entire Magic Kingdom area, and we're still sitting.

Is it any wonder that Epcot hasn't had anything truly monumental and new in so long? Soarin' opened in 2005, and was a redo of the attraction from California. Mission Space opened in 2003. I think bureaucracy has taken hold, and the day of relatively quick monumental achievements has long passed. For some reason, quick response is essentially gone, and plodding over-study has become the norm. By comparison, the first phase of Harry Potter land took 3 years from rights acquisition to phase 1 opening, not exactly a rubber-burning timeline, but at least it got moving while some semblance of excitement was till there.

The big question: Does anybody know why it now takes Disney so long to open anything? Actual answers would be appreciated.
 
ToTBellHop

ToTBellHop

Well-Known Member
AndyMagic said:
Those were fun times though. Monorail expansion rumors every other day, Fire Mountain, Bald Mountain, Beastly Kingdom, Time Racers! MEMORIES....
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Indeed. Those projects for MK were particularly crazy because usually when they start developing a project, they know a park has a need, so even if they abandon the project, they still build something for the park. Not at MK. They abandoned those new mountain projects and just let the park be. At least a number of abandoned projects at DAK eventually led to Everest and now AVATAR.
 
montyz81

montyz81

Well-Known Member
Ralphlaw said:
for comparison, here's the timeline for Disneyland:

August, 1953. 160 acres in Anaheim is purchased.
July 1954. Construction begins.
July 1955. Disneyland opens.

MK, including infrastructure, the monorail, parking lots, boat docks, The Contemporary, and The Polynesian only took about 2 years to build once they got started in 1969.
Click to expand...
FYI, I think it took from 1973 -1982 for EpcotCenter . Concept -to opening day
 
AndyMagic

AndyMagic

Well-Known Member
MansionButler84 said:
Indeed. Those projects for MK were particularly crazy because usually when they start developing a project, they know a park has a need, so even if they abandon the project, they still build something for the park. Not at MK. They abandoned those new mountain projects and just let the park be. At least a number of abandoned projects at DAK eventually led to Everest and now AVATAR.
Click to expand...

Management changes caused a complete change in how rides got the greenlight. They basically mothballed all those planned Magic Kingdom headliner attractions because attendance kept going up regardless of investment and now it's been 24 years and counting since Magic Kingdom's last E-ticket. They built New Fantasyland RELUCTANTLY after pressure from Burbank and it was justified as a way to help capacity and sell merchandise.
 
DisneyFans4Life

DisneyFans4Life

Well-Known Member
Ralphlaw said:
I fear the desire to "do it right" somehow gets things bogged down in bureaucracy. Rightly or wrongly, the parks are no longer a fast-changing entity when "Ready, fire, aim" was the mantra. Now it's "Ready (not quite), do another study, ready some more, aim, wait, aim again, fire slowly, fire some more, putz around, bring in the heavy equipment, and slowly make progress . . . . okay, we'll be ready for soft opening in a year, . . . maybe."

Honestly, unless it's adding to an existing footprint ala Soarin', Test Track, and Maelstrom, most true additions seem to take forever. Fantasyland moved pretty quickly, but how long has it been since Avatarland was announced? Will it ever open? We're planning a trip for next summer to Disneyland and hope to see something with StarWarsLand, but understand that basically nothing will be up and running by then.

For comparison, here's the timeline for Disneyland:

August, 1953. 160 acres in Anaheim is purchased.
July 1954. Construction begins.
July 1955. Disneyland opens.

MK, including infrastructure, the monorail, parking lots, boat docks, The Contemporary, and The Polynesian only took about 2 years to build once they got started in 1969.

By comparison, Avatarland was announced in 2013 with concepts, videos, and detailed artwork. By the way, a new nighttime AK show was also announced at the same time. It is now 3 years later, more than a year longer than it took to build all of Disneyland and the entire Magic Kingdom area, and we're still sitting.

Is it any wonder that Epcot hasn't had anything truly monumental and new in so long? Soarin' opened in 2005, and was a redo of the attraction from California. Mission Space opened in 2003. I think bureaucracy has taken hold, and the day of relatively quick monumental achievements has long passed. For some reason, quick response is essentially gone, and plodding over-study has become the norm. By comparison, the first phase of Harry Potter land took 3 years from rights acquisition to phase 1 opening, not exactly a rubber-burning timeline, but at least it got moving while some semblance of excitement was till there.

The big question: Does anybody know why it now takes Disney so long to open anything? Actual answers would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
I agree with you on this to an extent...but don't forget that it's much easier to build new construction on empty land when nothing else is around.

Today they are trying to build or add new things to parks that are open 365 days a year and have people in them from early morning to late at night. A longer construction schedule should be expected.

What we also don't know is when plans for Disneyland were actually developed. It opened in 1955...two years after the land was purchased...but I guarantee you that it was well before 1953 that plans were actually being drawn up. You have to have some sort of idea of what you want to do before you go and purchase 160 acres of land.
 
WildcatDen

WildcatDen

Well-Known Member
EPICOT said:
Look up Son Of Beast at Kings Island. The tallest coaster at the park at the time left shuttered in plain sight for many years before being torn down.
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That thing made your head hurt. Still the only looping wooden coaster was pretty innovative for what it was. Banshee is a good use of some of that SOB space.
 
R

Ralphlaw

Well-Known Member
DisneyFans4Life said:
I agree with you on this to an extent...but don't forget that it's much easier to build new construction on empty land when nothing else is around.

Today they are trying to build or add new things to parks that are open 365 days a year and have people in them from early morning to late at night. A longer construction schedule should be expected.

What we also don't know is when plans for Disneyland were actually developed. It opened in 1955...two years after the land was purchased...but I guarantee you that it was well before 1953 that plans were actually being drawn up. You have to have some sort of idea of what you want to do before you go and purchase 160 acres of land.
Click to expand...

I agree also to an extent, but so much infrastructure had to be put in place from scratch for each of these. Just thinking of the shear amount that was built to get DL and MK off the ground, it's mind-boggling. Yeah, both parks were much smaller then, and building into an existing and functioning park has it complexities. But you have to tip your hat to the military leaders and others who jumped in and got it done.

Disneyland was a totally new concept that had been thought about since the late 30's, but a tremendous amount of work was done in that 2 years.

Similarly, building such a complex in Florida swampland with two major and unique hotel complexes, parking, boats, monorail, utilidors, and a few dozen attractions was a monumental building project that took only two years. I would have to think that those who built DL and MK would be shaking their heads at the pace of later projects. I wonder how long it took to add later additions, like certain World Showcase pavilions, or Space Mountain, or Tower of Terror, Expedition Everest, and the dozens of other additions to existing parks over the years. Even Fantasyland seemed to take less time than Avatarland. I can't help but think that a bureaucracy has grown where quick innovation and decision-making once ruled.
 
rle4lunch

rle4lunch

Well-Known Member
Ralphlaw said:
I fear the desire to "do it right" somehow gets things bogged down in bureaucracy. Rightly or wrongly, the parks are no longer a fast-changing entity when "Ready, fire, aim" was the mantra. Now it's "Ready (not quite), do another study, ready some more, aim, wait, aim again, fire slowly, fire some more, putz around, bring in the heavy equipment, and slowly make progress . . . . okay, we'll be ready for soft opening in a year, . . . maybe."

Honestly, unless it's adding to an existing footprint ala Soarin', Test Track, and Maelstrom, most true additions seem to take forever. Fantasyland moved pretty quickly, but how long has it been since Avatarland was announced? Will it ever open? We're planning a trip for next summer to Disneyland and hope to see something with StarWarsLand, but understand that basically nothing will be up and running by then.

For comparison, here's the timeline for Disneyland:

August, 1953. 160 acres in Anaheim is purchased.
July 1954. Construction begins.
July 1955. Disneyland opens.

MK, including infrastructure, the monorail, parking lots, boat docks, The Contemporary, and The Polynesian only took about 2 years to build once they got started in 1969.

By comparison, Avatarland was announced in 2013 with concepts, videos, and detailed artwork. By the way, a new nighttime AK show was also announced at the same time. It is now 3 years later, more than a year longer than it took to build all of Disneyland and the entire Magic Kingdom area, and we're still sitting.

Is it any wonder that Epcot hasn't had anything truly monumental and new in so long? Soarin' opened in 2005, and was a redo of the attraction from California. Mission Space opened in 2003. I think bureaucracy has taken hold, and the day of relatively quick monumental achievements has long passed. For some reason, quick response is essentially gone, and plodding over-study has become the norm. By comparison, the first phase of Harry Potter land took 3 years from rights acquisition to phase 1 opening, not exactly a rubber-burning timeline, but at least it got moving while some semblance of excitement was till there.

The big question: Does anybody know why it now takes Disney so long to open anything? Actual answers would be appreciated.
Click to expand...

Unfortunately, this is the contractor/union/lawsuit laden world that we live in. Contractors are put on fixed firm price contracts with no bonuses of finishing early, unions keep jacking rates up to pay for their workers and insurance before the next strike happens, all as lawyers sit back and wait for the next lawsuit for someone getting heat stroke or slips and breaks an ankle, forcing the contractors/unions to raise rates/bids for future contracts.

Gone are the days of construction engineers working their butts off to build something quick because they knew they'd be in for a big bonus check. Now it's all about contract longevity and how long they can hold a job down.
 
Mike S

Mike S

Well-Known Member
Ralphlaw said:
Similarly, building such a complex in Florida swampland with two major and unique hotel complexes, parking, boats, monorail, utilidors, and a few dozen attractions was a monumental building project that took only two years. I would have to think that those who built DL and MK would be shaking their heads at the pace of later projects. I wonder how long it took to add later additions, like certain World Showcase pavilions, or Space Mountain, or Tower of Terror, Expedition Everest, and the dozens of other additions to existing parks over the years. Even Fantasyland seemed to take less time than Avatarland. I can't help but think that a bureaucracy has grown where quick innovation and decision-making once ruled.
Click to expand...
@marni1971 has said that MK's Splash Mountain took about 22 months.
 

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