News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

RoysCabin

Well-Known Member
Correct. When blind defenders claim “fans don’t want IP in Epcot, and IP is Disney, so tough,” they’re oversimplifying the actual conversation.

Oversimplification is a typical tactic that paints people as “haters” or “lovers” by ignoring context, nuance, and all markers of adult conversation. It’s immature and an unfortunate hallmark of the Internet.

The reality is, anything Disney makes is IP. We know that. We also know that a park with no characters at all is a bad idea—Disney learned that the hard way when EPCOT Center first opened, and Guests couldn’t find Mickey Mouse.

But that doesn’t mean every attraction in every park must be an extension of a recent movie, with cartoon characters slapped on everything. That’s similar to decorating a cake with cheap plastic rings that have character stickers; you can’t compare that to the craft involved in a gorgeous sculpted cake featured on Food Network.

Unfortunately, many fans love the stickers and shout that it’s a matter of opinion and to leave them alone. Okay, but you’re accepting the lowest common denominator instead of getting a work of art.

Very much agreed on "if Disney makes it, it's Disney IP"; Disney had a massive box office hit on their hands for awhile in Pirates of the Caribbean, a success that only happens because it came from a theme park attraction Disney had already created. No, they couldn't get Country Bears or Haunted Mansion to work, but that wasn't the fault of those IPs, necessarily, they were just poor films. There's no reason why, for example, Disney couldn't have done more over the years to leverage and make great use of, say, Imagination as a very strong IP, but the decision has been made in recent years to instead have the theme parks serve to sell the films, rather than allow them to be their own thing, which in turn could create entirely new IP for the company to leverage.

The bigger point, though, is that I think the over-reliance on just movie characters has the potential to, over the long term, do less good for Disney's theme park reputation. A Disney that makes all kinds of different attractions, that isn't afraid to experiment, and that creates experiences you couldn't imagine having anywhere else likely creates more long term fans who'll want to keep coming back. So much of WDW's sterling reputation was built on an era that placed a massive emphasis on guest services, "big vision" and sometimes risky attractions and parks, all while managing to sell things to you without it feeling like they were aggressively shoving it in your face; consider, for example, how the early Magic Kingdom had things like glass and antique shops that operated at a loss, but their stores were maintained because it was good for the overall show, and that attention to detail like that would register subconsciously with people and create return guests.

But a Disney that only seems capable of "slapping on more cartoon movie characters" to everything? Just an opinion of mine, but I think that over time that could possibly backfire, particularly as prices keep rising and guest services keep taking little hits here and there (even if some of the attractions featuring said characters are pretty good on their own). It fundamentally alters what being a "Disney fan" means; it stops being about a whole wide array of things, and instead becomes narrow and makes WDW feel like less of a destination if you're not a fan of meet and greets or of buying merchandise for specific film franchises. And, as you say, when everything's an extension of a recent movie, that feeling of having merchandise hawked right in your face is a lot harder to avoid, and it has an impact on the overall experience.

But I think there's one more big issue: entertainment consumption is only going to continue to fragment, each person picking and choosing from an enormous array of films and shows to suit their own tastes, and at a certain point you can't rely on everybody having seen all of your movies, even if a bunch of them are making a billion in the global box office. We often see people here say things like "(whichever movie) deserves better than a C-level attraction!" or whatever, but think about how many movies Disney is pumping out these days: how do you accommodate them all in the parks, and how do you maintain universal appeal with them when, in a continually fracturing media consumption environment, not everybody is going to particularly care about each of them? Long story short, it limits an attraction's ability to be timeless, it amps up the feeling that they're just constantly trying to sell you something, and it can be a turn off if you're just not all that invested in enough of the movies themselves; the long-term impact becomes, potentially, that you have people's attention when they bring young kids to the parks, but risk losing them as possible long-term loyal customers.

...that ramble went on far longer than I intended and now I'm hungry.
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
Such as? Not intending to start an argument but I am failing to see any story treatment that would tie into the Epcot's original vision. The "Pavilion" idea seems to be officially dead so all we have left is a queue, pre-show and ride to tell the story, yes? Which leads me to believe it will be a very linear story, with a distinct beginning, middle and end, and not lend itself to personal interpretation or further exploration and discovery in a post-show pavilion environment, helping the guest to investigate the phenomena that was just presented to them on the ride. The point being, I'm not sure how such a linear story treatment, without any sort of post-show interactive area exploring the themes just espoused on the ride portion, lends itself to a story treatment that fits in with the original Epcot vision.

It fits with the new Epcot, because "Discovery" is so vague that it can encompass anything and everything a person has never experienced before.

EDIT: I'm aware Horizons was mostly just a ride.......it's an exception.....and I have no problem making an exception for such an exceptional ride. GotG....prove me wrong. ;)
The Guardians essentially have access to stones that can manipulate time and space. I'm not anticipating a tie to traditional Energy ties here, so if that's what you're expecting, that would surprise me.

What I could envision is a love letter to classic Epcot that prays on Peter Quill's familiarity with EPCOT Center. It could be self referential and perhaps even play into the multi verse theory and time travel.

Alternatively, they could keep the "Peter Quill visited Epcot as nothing more than lip service" and have this be an attraction that travels through the cosmos in a Powers of 10 type vibe.

I think there's also a chance they ignore any attempt to fit this into Epcot and we get a solid ride that doesn't fit.
 
Last edited:

Mike S

Well-Known Member
The Guardians essentially have access to a stones that can manipulate time and space. I'm not anticipating a tie to traditional Energy ties here, so if that's what you're expecting, that would surprise me.

What I could envision is a love letter to classic Epcot that prays on Peter Quill's familiarity with EPCOT Center. It could be self referential and perhaps even play into the multi verse theory and time travel.

Alternatively, they could keep the "Peter Quill visited Epcot as nothing more than lip service" and have this be an attraction that travels through the cosmos in a Powers of 10 type vibe.

I think there's also a chance they ignore any attempt to fit this into Epcot and we get a solid ride that doesn't fit.
Peter Quill could always have this gem on his Walkman. Strangely enough it could fit really well with a coaster. The beginning screams “launch tunnel.” It’s completely Quill’s style too :)


A random music track like Mission Breakout would be fun with this as one of the possibilities.
 
Last edited:
I’m actually excited for Poppins and hope we get a proper dark ride based on the original movie, since she’s legitimately an important part of British children’s literature.
I enjoyed reading the books as a kid in California. Iirc, there were multiple copies of all the books in series available at the local public library.

I wonder if Walt would have brought a Poppins dark ride to DL had he lived?
 

tirian

Well-Known Member
Very much agreed on "if Disney makes it, it's Disney IP"; Disney had a massive box office hit on their hands for awhile in Pirates of the Caribbean, a success that only happens because it came from a theme park attraction Disney had already created. No, they couldn't get Country Bears or Haunted Mansion to work, but that wasn't the fault of those IPs, necessarily, they were just poor films. There's no reason why, for example, Disney couldn't have done more over the years to leverage and make great use of, say, Imagination as a very strong IP, but the decision has been made in recent years to instead have the theme parks serve to sell the films, rather than allow them to be their own thing, which in turn could create entirely new IP for the company to leverage.

The bigger point, though, is that I think the over-reliance on just movie characters has the potential to, over the long term, do less good for Disney's theme park reputation. A Disney that makes all kinds of different attractions, that isn't afraid to experiment, and that creates experiences you couldn't imagine having anywhere else likely creates more long term fans who'll want to keep coming back. So much of WDW's sterling reputation was built on an era that placed a massive emphasis on guest services, "big vision" and sometimes risky attractions and parks, all while managing to sell things to you without it feeling like they were aggressively shoving it in your face; consider, for example, how the early Magic Kingdom had things like glass and antique shops that operated at a loss, but their stores were maintained because it was good for the overall show, and that attention to detail like that would register subconsciously with people and create return guests.

But a Disney that only seems capable of "slapping on more cartoon movie characters" to everything? Just an opinion of mine, but I think that over time that could possibly backfire, particularly as prices keep rising and guest services keep taking little hits here and there (even if some of the attractions featuring said characters are pretty good on their own). It fundamentally alters what being a "Disney fan" means; it stops being about a whole wide array of things, and instead becomes narrow and makes WDW feel like less of a destination if you're not a fan of meet and greets or of buying merchandise for specific film franchises. And, as you say, when everything's an extension of a recent movie, that feeling of having merchandise hawked right in your face is a lot harder to avoid, and it has an impact on the overall experience.

But I think there's one more big issue: entertainment consumption is only going to continue to fragment, each person picking and choosing from an enormous array of films and shows to suit their own tastes, and at a certain point you can't rely on everybody having seen all of your movies, even if a bunch of them are making a billion in the global box office. We often see people here say things like "(whichever movie) deserves better than a C-level attraction!" or whatever, but think about how many movies Disney is pumping out these days: how do you accommodate them all in the parks, and how do you maintain universal appeal with them when, in a continually fracturing media consumption environment, not everybody is going to particularly care about each of them? Long story short, it limits an attraction's ability to be timeless, it amps up the feeling that they're just constantly trying to sell you something, and it can be a turn off if you're just not all that invested in enough of the movies themselves; the long-term impact becomes, potentially, that you have people's attention when they bring young kids to the parks, but risk losing them as possible long-term loyal customers.

...that ramble went on far longer than I intended and now I'm hungry.
You made some good points, and now I’m hungry too. :D
 

CalebS

Well-Known Member
I believe that appearance is important, but I’m afraid that they may end up squandering way to much of this massive budget in visual changes rather than substantiative changes such bulking up the WS with attractions or another new attraction to FW
 

griffin ferrari

Well-Known Member
Update from the monorail today pardon the rain on the window.
 

Attachments

  • 8F4D274F-D743-4585-B704-6942DBE04306.jpeg
    8F4D274F-D743-4585-B704-6942DBE04306.jpeg
    99.4 KB · Views: 204
  • C9F6D8DB-BF02-462A-A835-269294DD9593.jpeg
    C9F6D8DB-BF02-462A-A835-269294DD9593.jpeg
    204.8 KB · Views: 194
  • 1A358BFE-E376-4291-91DF-7D2148AF6A6C.jpeg
    1A358BFE-E376-4291-91DF-7D2148AF6A6C.jpeg
    193.8 KB · Views: 191

mikejs78

Well-Known Member
The Guardians essentially have access to a stones that can manipulate time and space. I'm not anticipating a tie to traditional Energy ties here, so if that's what you're expecting, that would surprise me.
The Disney Parks Blog had this to say about Guardians after D23, which gives me hope that there may be some thematic fit to Epcot.

Guardians of the Galaxy: Cosmic Rewind will be the first “other-world” showcase pavilion at Epcot. The adventure starts in the “Galaxarium,” a planetarium-like exhibition that explores the similarities and mysteries of the formation of Earth’s galaxy and Xandar.

Perhaps "cosmic rewind" refers to going back to the origins of our Galaxy, and that it will be a discovery on some of the wonders of space and cosmic history, in an irreverent Guardians way. That's a story treatment that could work and I would be fine with.
 

griffin ferrari

Well-Known Member
Not the best update on the wall situation. I still don't have clear pictures on East but I know the one path is closed and some walls are in place. Having the West path back open makes it look much cleaner. Remember, it's the calm before wallmageddon starts.
View attachment 403848
I am at Epcot tonight I added a Random set of walls near the spaceship Earth and fixed east for you showing that the a pathway by now Mouse Gear is completely closed is completely closed
75A9A13D-4509-430F-A8E4-7F68B4AB5333.jpeg
 

RSoxNo1

Well-Known Member
The Disney Parks Blog had this to say about Guardians after D23, which gives me hope that there may be some thematic fit to Epcot.



Perhaps "cosmic rewind" refers to going back to the origins of our Galaxy, and that it will be a discovery on some of the wonders of space and cosmic history, in an irreverent Guardians way. That's a story treatment that could work and I would be fine with.
Right, that's the type of thing where it can be comedic and educational without being so blatant in it's tie back to EPCOT Center's legacy.
 

DisneyDreamerxyz

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised they have that back area of Innoventions open for Food & Wine when the building is set to close Sept 8th? This is where the Light Lab was last year, I don't know what they are offering in there or maybe it's just for people to cool out with air conditioning. I was assuming a wall would go around the entire building after Sept 8th?
 

trainplane3

Well-Known Member
I'm surprised they have that back area of Innoventions open for Food & Wine when the building is set to close Sept 8th? This is where the Light Lab was last year, I don't know what they are offering in there or maybe it's just for people to cool out with air conditioning. I was assuming a wall would go around the entire building after Sept 8th?
The paths around the back area are (currently) out of the construction area.
Correct on the closing date for the entire building. No Light Lab this year.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom