News Big changes coming to EPCOT's Future World?

[DisneyDreamerxyz]

IMO, it'd be better than the whimsical look with garish conflicting colors and disorienting, chaotic layout.

dang. well I hope it's not World of Disney esque D: I guess I should be happy they're not tearing down the building altogether.
The layout challenge is due to it's strange U shape that always confuses guests.

 

[trainplane3]

Flat ride spinners will make them lose their food and beverages.

*Mission: Space joke goes here*

 

[MisterPenguin]

*Mission: Space joke goes here*

psst.. look two posts up

 

[trainplane3]

psst.. look two posts up

F

 

[lazyboy97o]

Was hoping to see you in here saying just this. Disney Imagineering used to create IP. Wonderful inspiring IP. Now, we are about a rabbits turd away from a Puppy Dog Pals Pavilion.

Puppy Dog Pals is a perfect fit! Bingo and Rolly and their friends are animals, so they’d go great in World Nature! Or, we could celebrate their love of helping others in World Ceebrate! A.R.F. and Bob’s other inventions would fit right into the technology sort of connection of World Discovery! The Pals’ missions take them all of the World, so they can also go be in every World Showcase pavilion! See how focused this new Epcot is?

 

[flynnibus]

food/beverage sales are placed on a pedestal, because both merch and alcohol are good for profit margins

Here's an interesting thought about EPCOT I had not really pulled together before. The contrast of how lands are assembled since the 90s vs EPCOT's original Future world.

Sitting on a bench in Super Hero Island.. I was contemplating that from my seat across from spiderman.. I could see 7 food&merch locations.. and 1 ride. Now... none of this is 'news'.. but it helped me step back and realize that when laying out these lands.. it really is a significant ratio of 'opportunities to take your money' vs the attractions which we associate with the anchors.

The design is really about using attractions to pull you in.. and work you over (jokingly) while you are there for the attractions. The layout isn't "hey, its going to be a long day, so we probably need some food so people can survive.. where should it go?" -- but more about funneling, exposure, number of opportunities, proximity, etc.

Why I mention it here is... when you go back and look at Future World as it was built.. It is in very stark contrast to this. Yes communicore's buildings housed the main dining and shopping.. but outside of that.. there was very little! Before the invasion of outdoor vending.. the structures are very focused and streamlined to the main pavilions. There are actually very few food locations.. and merchandising is tucked away.

Now look at lands build in recent times and look at they are so different.

 

[DanielBB8]

Disney's flat ride spinners are hardly intense enough to cause nausea. There's still no reason for visiting World Celebration unless they fix Imagination and make this ride the feature in the south side with Spaceship Earth on the north side. EPIC Universal is 4 or 5 short years away. Disney has a few more years before feeling the pain it probably already feels from Star Wars Galaxy's Edge sequel trilogy apathy. How to ruin IP attractions that's should have been a homerun. Disney will also base Mary Poppins attraction and Cherry Tree Lane on it's less successful Returns movie. If they are smart, they should just throw all IP into it rather than focus on the new stuff.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Disney's flat ride spinners are hardly intense enough to cause nausea.

Do you think they're intense enough for someone to lose their sense of humor?

 

[xdan0920]

Puppy Dog Pals is a perfect fit! Bingo and Rolly and their friends are animals, so they’d go great in World Nature! Or, we could celebrate their love of helping others in World Ceebrate! A.R.F. and Bob’s other inventions would fit right into the technology sort of connection of World Discovery! The Pals’ missions take them all of the World, so they can also go be in every World Showcase pavilion! See how focused this new Epcot is?

Oh man. As someone with small children who’s been subjected to this show far too often, this post is PERFECT.

 

[tirian]

I don't agree. Tech was always heavily represented in any forwarding looking outlook the shows presented. Tech was also heavily represented in the shows in terms of tracking progress.. in fact it was presented as almost synonymous with progress.

WoM showed the evolution of our technology in transportation.. and had outlooks to the future that were very focused on hi-tech
Horizons was sci-fi and showed how we would use technology to harness and populate new exotic places
UoE was about the science and the evolving front of how we were expanding that science of energy to find better ways to capture that energy
SSE tracked the evolution and significance of communications and put technology breakthroughs up on pedestals as key inflection points in our history.. capping off with space and future cities.. all which are very heavy sci-fi/tech
Seas showed us using future tech to live in and harness environments that are inhabitable without future tech
The Land showed how we were using science and emerging ideas to further our abilities
Imagination is the only one that I would say was not tech heavy mainly since it was so abstract and emotion focused.. and lacked that kind of 'look to the future..' sendoff that most other pavilions had
And Communicore was heavy on tech... even if you just look at the delivery format. Touch screens with video on demand... real-time electronic polling.. simulators... robots... computers..

Now, I agree 'tech' wasn't the message the pavilions preached... but they all almost uniformly show tech as the fuel of progress.. and knowledge or society inflections are tied to the use of tech to achieve new things. Many provided future outlooks that were very sci-fi/tech heavy.. and nearly all presentation tools in Communicore, post-shows, etc.. all relied heavily on what were 'leading edge' tech to convey ideas or drive interactions.

FutureWorld tried to celebrate human achievement and give people optimism about the future... but it also very much tied science and technology achievement as the means to move us forward. I think The Land was the only one that got more philosophical with its preaching around conservation and smart use, etc.

You weren't finding philosophical changes in thinking being celebrated as progress.. or emotion... or collaboration. It was what science and technology were enabling and how our world was changing with it.

We agree more than you might realize.

Tech was certainly an aspect of the early pavilions, and for that matter, it’ll be part of the new ones too.

I was responding to the Internet myth that Future World had to be changed specifically because it had the same problem as Tomorrowland — the idea that the future was always catching up to TL and making it “Today-Land.” Some Future World exhibits in pavilions and Innoventions definitely relied on technology and required constant updates, but the overarching ideas were much bigger than “Look! Shiny tech!”

 

[flynnibus]

I was responding to the Internet myth that Future World had to be changed specifically because it had the same problem as Tomorrowland — the idea that the future was always catching up to TL and making it “Today-Land.” Some Future World exhibits in pavilions and Innoventions definitely relied on technology and required constant updates, but the overarching ideas were much bigger than “Look! Shiny tech!”

The ideas were bigger than 'look at what is new' - but the presentation was always flawed in that they told a story that always had a leap-off point of the present. They laid out narratives that were based on perspectives at the time. I'd argue they are worse off than a Tomorrowland (sans the original DL TL) because TL has been more about sci-fi and extreme future(or might even call it fantasy). The majority of the FW attractions had this common story telling element of review, show how it shaped the present as you know it, inspire, and try to set you off with optimism about what the future can be.

But for many...
WoM, UoE, SSE, Seas, Land, Communicore - this all meant a leap point or climax with 'the present'. Much like the problem with CoP. All of those beyond the Seas (because it was so forward looking) struggled in keeping current in that their narratives would fall behind current evolving thoughts on the subject matter.

FutureWorld while it wasn't just about 'look shiny tech' - It was doomed by the accelerating society around it that was moving faster and faster because of 'shiny tech'. It's references, tone, and presentation dated extremely fast because the subject matter was about the present and near future... and those two things raced forward at paces unseen in the decades prior.

I'd say most of FW was already stale by 1992. Only the attractions that didn't focus on the 'now' as much.. like Seas, Horizons, Imagination were more immune.. yet even they had needs for refresh as just show technology advanced.

 

[Anders Limpar]

My opinion? People don't want that conversation anymore. They just want to walk through the gates/tapstiles, and be mindlessly entertained by some app on their device and some 60-second thrills, and in-between they can go drink and thus think they are having a good time. Thinking and having intelligence is now looked down upon - "Why can't you just be in the moment???" is a gist of many arguments now. Disney no longer aims for nuance and subtlety and context or to make you think (and hasn't for over a decade), they aim for that lowest common denominator, because that makes more money.

"Don't kill my vibe b." Which is one of the dumbest phrases ever uttered by a human being.

 

[DanielBB8]

I think it's a bit much to assume people don't want to debate on the merits of having something more unique in the theme parks, but Disney isn't there to do anything it isn't competent. Just like Disney is doing movie sequels by repackaging their existing IP, they're bringing over their heavy hitter IP to their theme parks in equal measure.

Do people "think they are having a good time"? How to ruin having a good time is lecturing them on what they should be enjoying.

Makes me wonder what highly intelligent people do with their off time?

Bill Gates enjoy (1) bridge, (2) Settlers of Catan, (3) tennis, (4) reading books, (5) travel.
Albert Einstein played violin.
Marie Curie was long distance cyclist.

If everyone is smart, don't go to EPCOT.

 

[Mike730]

Do you think they're intense enough for someone to lose their sense of humor?

 

[Missing20K]

Oh man. As someone with small children who’s been subjected to this show far too often, this post is PERFECT.

Yep, it hits wayyyy too close to home.

 

[tirian]

The ideas were bigger than 'look at what is new' - but the presentation was always flawed in that they told a story that always had a leap-off point of the present. They laid out narratives that were based on perspectives at the time. I'd argue they are worse off than a Tomorrowland (sans the original DL TL) because TL has been more about sci-fi and extreme future(or might even call it fantasy). The majority of the FW attractions had this common story telling element of review, show how it shaped the present as you know it, inspire, and try to set you off with optimism about what the future can be.

But for many...
WoM, UoE, SSE, Seas, Land, Communicore - this all meant a leap point or climax with 'the present'. Much like the problem with CoP. All of those beyond the Seas (because it was so forward looking) struggled in that their narratives were not current with evolving thoughts on the subject matter either.

FutureWorld while it wasn't just about 'look shiny tech' - It was doomed by the accelerating society around it that was moving faster and faster because of 'shiny tech'. It's references, tone, and presentation dated extremely fast because the subject matter was about the present and near future... and those two things raced forward at paces unseen in the decades prior.

I'd say most of FW was already stale by 1992. Only the attractions that didn't focus on the 'now' as much.. like Seas, Horizons, Imagination were more immune.. yet even they had needs for refresh as just show technology advanced.

Yeah, I’m one of the rare fans who loves Walt’s legacy, who wants a new version of Horizons, who wants the Tiki Room and CBJ to remain forever because they’re classics—and who thinks COP needs to be put out of its misery. Either place the “future” family back in the 60s and insert a film montage in the exit scene, or put a brand-new attraction in there.

The reason is exactly what you said about the tech—when it’s used as a point to jump forward, it gets stale and irrelevant.

But I still think those old Epcot pavilions simply needed easy script changes, especially Horizons. We’re still aspiring to that lifestyle today, and the Omnimax film montages could’ve simply been updated. For that matter, the same goes for the films in UOE.

 

[flynnibus]

Yeah, I’m one of the rare fans who loves Walt’s legacy, who wants a new version of Horizons, who wants the Tiki Room and CBJ to remain forever because they’re classics—and who thinks COP needs to be put out of its misery. Either place the “future” family back in the 60s and insert a film montage in the exit scene, or put a brand-new attraction in there.

I would gave been first to give CoP up on the alter if if meant refreshing Horizons. That show epitimizes so much of the idea of Disney attraction magic. It had story, it had tech, it had 'how did they do that', it had great music, memorable scenes, and that optimism that Futureworld tried to instill.

To hell with those stupid 'no sponsor, no dollars' kind of mindsets that ruined the future of it.

 

[tirian]

I would gave been first to give CoP up on the alter if if meant refreshing Horizons. That show epitimizes so much of the idea of Disney attraction magic. It had story, it had tech, it had 'how did they do that', it had great music, memorable scenes, and that optimism that Futureworld tried to instill.

To hell with those stupid 'no sponsor, no dollars' kind of mindsets that ruined the future of it.

So now that Epcot is changing again, and now that the company has announced a bold vision that’s even more “Disney,” we’re getting a water garden and updated landscaping.

Those are going to be lovely. I’m not complaining.

But with today’s tech, Epcot 2021 should be just as mind-blowing as the park was by ‘89, and instead we’re getting “Fantasyland Expansion #3: Now in a New Park! Still the Magic Kingdom’s biggest expansion of all time!”

Funny to see the hydrolator concept return via Space 220.

 

[ChrisFL]

Funny to see the hydrolator concept return via Space 220.

and the concept art is reminiscent of Mission to Mars, just a much smaller scale

 

[October82]

FutureWorld while it wasn't just about 'look shiny tech' - It was doomed by the accelerating society around it that was moving faster and faster because of 'shiny tech'. It's references, tone, and presentation dated extremely fast because the subject matter was about the present and near future... and those two things raced forward at paces unseen in the decades prior.

I don't think it's really true that things have moved much faster since 1982 than they had prior to 1982. The nature of technological growth and social progress is that the present always looks like it is moving faster than the past did, regardless of whether that is really true. People today don't live fundamentally different lives than they did in the 80s, and Epcot's pavilions were about asking us to imagine what a fundamentally different world could look like.

What really has changed rapidly is computing power and the quality of telecommunications technologies - both of which came up a lot in EPCOT Center. So that message did become obsolete. The solution to keeping Epcot's pavilions relevant was always going to be updates to the questions and possibilities posed in contemporary life. The equivalent technologies today are found in all of the original (and semi-original) pavilions. Sustainability (the land pavilion, world of motion/test track, the seas, universe of energy), materials science and nanotechnology (universe of energy, horizons), the commercialization of space (horizons/mission:space), medicine (wonders of life) etc.

There's nothing fundamentally dated about the concept of Future World. The decision to move away from it is 100% a choice to have a different message. The fracturing of Future World seems to be an acknowledgement that there isn't a single replacement message, which makes me doubt Epcot will feel anymore coherent than it does today. In 20-30 years, people will be asking the same questions - what relevance does Guardians of the Galaxy have to "discovery" in the year 2039? How does Moana say something about "nature" in a world experiencing climate change?