News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Starship824]

So there you go.


To round it back to the subject of the thread, I'm not certain this means Coco is totally out of the running for Beyond Big Thunder - I would prefer Disney not split an IP over two parks in this way (especially since it seems like the rides are A-Ticket and E-Ticket versions of the same "ride an Alebrije!" idea, which would be weird to do twice and so differently), but I myself haven't heard that Coco is fully dunzo for MK just because it seems to have presence in AK's plans.

I have heard that WDI has built a model for Villain's Land - now, they build models for millions of things that don't happen, but it's nice to think they take the idea at least somewhat seriously. Sketches are much cheaper than models.

Toy Story Mania and Space Ranger spill is the same IP in different parks with similar ideas...

 

[yensidtlaw1969]

Toy Story Mania and Space Ranger spill is the same IP in different parks with similar ideas...

Right, but those were at least built years apart - imagine how much more ridiculous it would have been if they were developing them both at the same time and chose to go forth with both anyway instead of using their discernment and just building the better one. Or at least choosing to corral the different attractions for the one IP in one area.

I can *almost* excuse not letting existing attractions force your hand if you've got a better idea down the line - most of these things can't reasonably be picked up and moved around like chesspieces after the fact. But if both Coco attractions are in the concept stage and you're not locked into anything physically then it's very easy to move things around, so I'd expect them to exercise some better master planning.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

Right, but those were at least built years apart - imagine how much more ridiculous it would have been if they were developing them both at the same time and chose to go forth with both anyway instead of using their discernment and just building the better one. Or at least choosing to corral the different attractions for the one IP in one area.

I can *almost* excuse not letting existing attractions force your hand if you've got a better idea down the line - most of these things can't reasonably be picked up and moved around like chesspieces after the fact. But if both Coco attractions are in the concept stage and you're not locked into anything physically then it's very easy to move things around, so I'd expect them to exercise some better master planning.

This thinking boggles my mind. If you have valuable and popular IP, why would you think you need to concentrate it in only one park/area? Why would you not say, we have 2 great ideas for rides, lets expand our offering at more than 1 park, so there is a positive gain and hopefully driving more traffic to both parks? If you have great IP, why wouldn't you want to spread it to more than one park, so that if you have families who are true fans of that IP, they now make it a priority to go to both parks on their next trip, or at least pay for park hoppers, as opposed to saying, well they just put the new things we love to see in one park, we can skip another park this year and just go see the stuff.

 

[doctornick]

Sorry, but I have heard of Coco appearing in AK via the carousel, and from a legitimate source.

Can't fully guarantee that's the current state of things, but it's not based on nothing.

Fair enough, though I will admit that it seems like such an odd choice to me. Coco is a fantastic film, but you can make a solid enough land using Encanto and IJ with some general Latin America flourishes. Why waste Coco on something as trivial as a carousel? Especially as it seems that it is still in the running to be used in the Beyond Thunder Mountain aspect - some have mentioned that a Coco version of FoP is still in contention there. and Coco would be a good neighbor thematically to Frontierland for the transition.

IMHO just make the flat ride in Tropical Americas related to Encanto and move on. Don't waste Coco for nothing.

 

[monothingie]

This thinking boggles my mind. If you have valuable and popular IP, why would you think you need to concentrate it in only one park/area? Why would you not say, we have 2 great ideas for rides, lets expand our offering at more than 1 park, so there is a positive gain and hopefully driving more traffic to both parks? If you have great IP, why wouldn't you want to spread it to more than one park, so that if you have families who are true fans of that IP, they now make it a priority to go to both parks on their next trip, or at least pay for park hoppers, as opposed to saying, well they just put the new things we love to see in one park, we can skip another park this year and just go see the stuff.

I see your point, but if not done carefully, it leads to IP sprawl. Disney has always been careful about maintaining thematic lands or areas, a lot of times successfully and sometimes failing miserably. It also depends on which parks could see a net boost by having exclusive access to an IP. The MK is likely good as is, but DAK or EPCOT could benefit. It’s also why you’ve seen sometimes questionable IP being inserted in places that it doesn’t seem appropriate.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Keeping attractions of an IP together in one park is for the non-Orlando parks, since they only have one or two parks to populate with attractions.

WDW has quite intentionally spread IPs over 2 to 3 parks.

This was partly to fill up the other parks with the most popular IPs (Mermaid, Toy Story, Frozen, etc...) so as not to disappoint younglings looking for their favorite characters. That's how the "no Mickey" rule got broken in EPCOT long ago. The expectation of the consumer is that if they go to a Disney park, they see Mickey and the more famous Disney characters even if the park is a World's Fair or a Zoo.

 

[JMcMahonEsq]

I see your point, but if not done carefully, it leads to IP sprawl. Disney has always been careful about maintaining thematic lands or areas, a lot of times successfully and sometimes failing miserably. It also depends on which parks could see a net boost by having exclusive access to an IP. The MK is likely good as is, but DAK or EPCOT could benefit. It’s also why you’ve seen sometimes questionable IP being inserted in places that it doesn’t seem appropriate.

From an overall marketing/business plan, I don't think WDW will ever view MK as good as it is. Or to say it another way, i think even if you could argue that other parks like DAK or EPCOTT could use expansion more than MK, they will still lien into putting more rides/IP into MK.

WDW I believe will always want MK to be the crown jewel of parks. They don't want, nor do i believe should they, want to try to have AK/EPCOTT/HS be brought up to the same level of MK. MK is the anchor park, which they want families to firmly believe they can't miss. Once they get you to MK, then through discounted tickets for longer stays, the Disney bubble, ect., it becomes so much easier to have people then go to the other parks. Now that's not to say they won't expand the other parts as well, just that they will always focus on MK more, even if objectively, a place like DAK might be able to benifit individually more from a certain IP/ride.

 

[monothingie]

That's how the "no Mickey" rule got broken in EPCOT long ago.

Almost immediately.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Personally, I don’t love the single-IP lands. I’d rather have variety—like the existing MK lands already have. It’s smarter from a business perspective since it’s easier to replace 1 ride in 20 years than a whole land.

My bigger issue with Coco is that the carousel includes placemaking. It would be ridiculous to build a town around the carousel at DAK and then do it again at MK.

Of course, if MK quickly transitioned into the land of the dead and then a villain land, it could work. It’s clear to me that the entire south half of the BBT concept will not be built as presented, regardless.

 

[aladdin2007]

So there you go.


To round it back to the subject of the thread, I'm not certain this means Coco is totally out of the running for Beyond Big Thunder - I would prefer Disney not split an IP over two parks in this way (especially since it seems like the rides are A-Ticket and E-Ticket versions of the same "ride an Alebrije!" idea, which would be weird to do twice and so differently), but I myself haven't heard that Coco is fully dunzo for MK just because it seems to have presence in AK's plans.

I have heard that WDI has built a model for Villain's Land - now, they build models for millions of things that don't happen, but it's nice to think they take the idea at least somewhat seriously. Sketches are much cheaper than models.

One rumor, of the many floating, is that MK could get a new mountain range out of this. And that certainly would be welcome since they took one away! Whether that means Moana Mountain or something in Villains don't know, but I think it was pointing to villains.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Almost immediately.
View attachment 777254

I miss the fountain of Nations Now we have that ugly planter

 

[James Alucobond]

Sorry, but I have heard of Coco appearing in AK via the carousel, and from a legitimate source.

Can't fully guarantee that's the current state of things, but it's not based on nothing.

We have a source from earlier this week at a WDI presser....

​

Then came presentations by portfolio executives from Florida who provided new details about the plans for Tropical Americas in Animal Kingdom and Beyond Big Thunder at Magic Kingdom. This was the meatiest portion of the presentation, with new substantive details about the Dino-Rama replacement featuring Indiana Jones, Encanto, and Coco plus brand-new concept art for the area.​

I Went Inside Imagineering

"I wish I could be here every day," said Disney CEO Bob Iger to kick off an Imagineering presentation I attended. He was joined at the front of the small conference room by Parks Chairman

www.disneytouristblog.com

But this is the BBTM thread. I posted that in the DAK Expansion thread...

News - 'Encanto' and 'Indiana Jones'-themed experiences at Animal Kingdom

I believe the Moana boat ride is coming to MK. And that can come sooner than the rest of BBT. It’s a cool ride system. And there goes any interest I had in the future of WDW. LOL

forums.wdwmagic.com

Totally fair! As I said, I was never saying it was impossible, just that, up until this point, it seemed people were speculating from nondescript artwork and a YouTube video or two that mentioned it without sourcing it at all. If there are genuine rumblings about it, I'm actually quite happy to stop feeling the need to say anything to the contrary.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Totally fair! As I said, I was never saying it was impossible, just that, up until this point, it seemed people were speculating from nondescript artwork and a YouTube video or two that mentioned it without sourcing it at all. If there are genuine rumblings about it, I'm actually quite happy to stop feeling the need to say anything to the contrary.

Now you jinxed it!!

Disney will surely now not make it Coco themed because we're now expecting it!!!

 

[monothingie]

WDW I believe will always want MK to be the crown jewel of parks. They don't want, nor do i believe should they, want to try to have AK/EPCOTT/HS be brought up to the same level of MK.

They want parks that will command premiums for G+, ILL, After Hours, and assorted upcharge add ons.

 

[GhostHost1000]

Maybe Coco will be getting themed toilets to compete with Tangled

 

[monothingie]

Maybe Coco will be getting themed toilets to compete with Tangled

"Hot Coco" Desert and Coffee shop?

 

[Animaniac93-98]

I see this come up in other threads as speculation, but I don't see Liberty Square going away anytime soon.

While I'm sure there are some within Disney who view it as problematic, at this point the 1790s theme is mostly just set dressing for restaurants. The land only has two gift shops left, and they're basically the Halloween and Christmas stores. Haunted Mansion is one of the park's most popular rides, the Riverboat isn't really integral to the theme and while Hall of Presidents is an obvious target, I really don't see Disney wanting to start the kind of backlash they'd get for closing it or The American Adventure.

It being sandwiched between three other lands means it's also difficult to expand, and what would really be gained by spending the money to redecorate? Disney went to a lot of trouble to put The Liberty Tree where it is now, they're not going to try and move it again.

 

[Phicinfan]

Question, just to clear up some things. The proposed Moana ride in Adventure land - is that targeted for the expansion pad near Pirates? So this will finally kill the Fire Mountain rumors of possibly going there?

 

[monothingie]

While I'm sure there are some within Disney who view it as problematic, at this point the 1790s theme is mostly just set dressing for restaurants. The land only has two gift shops left, and they're basically the Halloween and Christmas stores. Haunted Mansion is one of the park's most popular rides, the Riverboat isn't really integral to the theme and while Hall of Presidents is an obvious target, I really don't see Disney wanting to start the kind of backlash they'd get for closing it or The American Adventure.

Yup total minefield. Disney can't do anything there without being screwed over. Wall it off and build a DVC lounge so that everyone will be united in hating it.

 

[Captain Barbossa]

Nah. I visited 3 times whilst it was down and it really didn't impact anything. Anything. Whoopdie doo, I didn't get a pic of it at the main Street station.

Actually yah chief. But hey if it didn’t impact your experience at MK, congrats.