News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[Brer Panther]

If Ice Age meant Dinoland would be safe from getting the axe, I'm all for it.

I fully agree.

Oh, and say what you want about the sequels, but the first Ice Age is in my opinion a genuinely good movie.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Not at all. Fantasyland works best when the majority of each ride is dominated by the darkness of the villain in the hero’s story, followed by a triumphant ending where good wins over evil. Fantasyland isn’t all sugar. It has all the ingredients: hero, mentor, sidekick, villain.

Saying “we need a villain land” makes as much sense as saying “we need a sidekicks land” or “we need a mentors land”.

Nighttime spectaculars are silly clip shows, I do not consider them very artistically deep. Even Fantasmic. And yes, I do cringe whenever I hear the villains say to each other “Let’s do it!” as if it’s possible for them to actually collaborate. It’s stupid fluff, but I tolerate it because it’s not set in stone, it’s just a temporary thing over the loudspeakers that will be gone within 30 minutes.

This is where I am mixed on the idea of a Villains land. As a series of meet-and-greets and stores, it works. I'm less sure what the attractions would be, other than more or less traditional Fantasyland attractions.

This is Disney, so they can't have the villains win. All I can imagine is, for example, a Sleeping Beauty or some such attraction that heavily features the villain and in which they are ultimately defeated by the hero. I certainly can't imagine some sort of buddy movie where Cruella, Maleficient, and Hades team up to defeat the Dalmatians, Sleeping Beauty, and Hercules.

 

[Bocabear]

I still can't believe Cinderella 3 was ever greenlit....lol

 

[Bocabear]

This is where I am mixed on the idea of a Villains land. As a series of meet-and-greets and stores, it works. I'm less sure what the attractions would be, other than more or less traditional Fantasyland attractions.

This is Disney, so they can't have the villains win. All I can imagine is, for example, a Sleeping Beauty or some such attraction that heavily features the villain and in which they are ultimately defeated by the hero. I certainly can't imagine some sort of buddy movie where Cruella, Maleficient, and Hades team up to defeat the Dalmatians, Sleeping Beauty, and Hercules.

Long ago when they were talking about a Villain Mountain, the attraction was a ride where you come upon a meeting of all the villains plotting something....then....they notice you, and the ride at that point becomes a chase out of the mountain to escape... That type scenario would have the guest as the winner getting away....

 

[JD80]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.

Their stories have nothing to do with each other, their “homes” should be nowhere near each other.

They are sociopaths that don’t get along, much less form an alliance with one another, and live in the same neighborhood with one another.

They are an important ingredient in a satisfying story. That’s why they are important parts of the “heroes” attractions. But you wouldn’t make a stew out of nothing but salt, and you shouldn’t make attractions out of nothing but villains.

Descendants was very popular.

 

[britain]

Descendants was very popular.

Oh I know. I had to be a very proactive father to keep my kids from watching that stuff.

And the fan community keeps the “A villain land would be so great” dream alive. And if built, it may even be popular.

But it would be a further deterioration of what makes the parks good.

 

[Snow Queen 83]

I'll take what I can get, but Coco seems more appropriate at Epcot. Not Magic or Animal!

 

[SamusAranX]

Oh I know. I had to be a very proactive father to keep my kids from watching that stuff.

And the fan community keeps the “A villain land would be so great” dream alive. And if built, it may even be popular.

But it would be a further deterioration of what makes the parks good.

Be that as it may, we’re just not getting any original ground up attractions like Everest, Space Mountain, BTMR, etc anymore. It’s been abundantly clear; I have kind of moved into the acceptance phase with the IP or bust mandate. So it think a dark kingdom with its own castle would be the lesser of evils, no pun intended.

 

[Disstevefan1]

Disney will do what it will do regardless of what anyone thinks. I will be happy the total number of attractions will go up.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Universal are literally in the process of creating a villains land of their own at Epic Universe with Classic Monsters. I think an important key to making a villains land work well is variety. Universal isn't centering their land on a singular monster from what I gather, but a variety of different ones.

And mind you, Universal already did dabble in a villains area with Knockturn Alley. Albeit as a sub section of a larger land. And I think there are plenty of people who would like more of that.

But again regarding variety. Voldemort is just one single villain from a single story. To make matters worse, there's not really a singular iconic "lair" setting that i'd associate him with. The Malfoy Manor is the closest thing that might come to mind, but it's a temporary base that isn't really his own. Not only are there a ton of Disney villains to draw from, most of their lairs are also varied and interesting. Same goes for Classic Monsters.

Given their trends in recent attractions and animated films, I just don't think Disney is interested in the classic "evil and loving it" villains anymore. Tiana's Bayou Adventure won't have a villain. Tokyo's BATB ride relegated Gaston and the mob to shadow projections shoved into a background wall (and it was a movie that already diverged somewhat from a traditional villain). And they heavily reduced the scares and witch appearances (and removed all the skeletons) from Snow White at DL.

The Universal monsters are just that, monsters who generally come from a larger context that isn’t unique to any one situation. Even Universal’s version of Frankenstein’s monster is one who was changed to keep reappearing in different stories. The monsters are the focus of their various [movie] stories and the important part is their menacing. That’s different than a villain tied to a specific narrative context where a specific resolution is known.

 

[Bocabear]

I actually think the dark counterpoint would make the MK stronger... With the location beyond Big Thunder, it would be very easy to not venture through for families with young children that would be scared... And it would add an extra layer of thrill and fun for families with older children and adults...while still feeling very "Disney" and promoting the IP mandate.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Apparently, and I heard this from someone who worked on the TRON import to MK, cloning a ride from overseas saves a negligible amount of money. They told me that for the money they spent on TRON here in the USA they could have built an entirely new track layout for the coaster.

So I don't understand why they're always trying to copy if it doesn't actually save them money.

The majority of the cost savings are in the approximately first 20% or so of the design phase, the phase when you would be coming up with something different. Imagine TRON or Ratatouille with 10% less than what was built.

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

There are still other cost savings associated with cloning aside from just the initial phases. At least for certain types of attractions. Particularly ones that are heavily video screen based (which is a large majority in the modern era). The video itself is already made, so they just need to copy the files into the new projector. No new animation needs to be created by the animation studio. This goes for a large portion of the software running an attraction too if it's mostly identical.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Descendants was very popular.

I, for one, look forward to a Descendants Restaurant in which college kids in goth make-up dance on my table kicking food everywhere while singing how "good it is to be bad"... but not that song... that's too memorable for Descendants.

 

[JD80]

Oh I know. I had to be a very proactive father to keep my kids from watching that stuff.

And the fan community keeps the “A villain land would be so great” dream alive. And if built, it may even be popular.

But it would be a further deterioration of what makes the parks good.

I mean you do you, but the show was pretty fun and my kids loved it. I'm just impressed with your level of disdain with the idea.

 

[JD80]

I, for one, look forward to a Descendants Restaurant in which college kids in goth make-up dance on my table kicking food everywhere while singing how "good it is to be bad"... but not that song... that's too memorable for Descendants.

I think you can get that experience at some less kid friendly establishments.

 

[J4546]

i for one am glad tron was copied in MK, i cant wait to ride it next year

 

[Robbiem]

This is where I am mixed on the idea of a Villains land. As a series of meet-and-greets and stores, it works. I'm less sure what the attractions would be, other than more or less traditional Fantasyland attractions.

This is Disney, so they can't have the villains win. All I can imagine is, for example, a Sleeping Beauty or some such attraction that heavily features the villain and in which they are ultimately defeated by the hero. I certainly can't imagine some sort of buddy movie where Cruella, Maleficient, and Hades team up to defeat the Dalmatians, Sleeping Beauty, and Hercules

I think villains land appeals more to adults.

A lot of little people could be scared by villain land so you run the risk of little johnny or jane being terrified. Remember that Disney toned down the original snow white ride and the Alien scene in the great movie ride.

Any attractions will presumably have to have good triumphing so you’re basically making fantasmic the ride.

There is also the question of how you make it coherent, fantasyland works because its fairytale land but I think it would hard to add in non fairytale IPs to a villain’s land - how could you fit scar, shere khan and Hades fit with malefecent, the evil queen and ursula, you would either need some sort of meta house of mouse set up or make it more carnival like

 

[MR.Dis]

I think villains land appeals more to adults.

A lot of little people could be scared by villain land so you run the risk of little johnny or jane being terrified. Remember that Disney toned down the original snow white ride and the Alien scene in the great movie ride.

Any attractions will presumably have to have good triumphing so you’re basically making fantasmic the ride.

There is also the question of how you make it coherent, fantasyland works because its fairytale land but I think it would hard to add in non fairytale IPs to a villain’s land - how could you fit scar, shere khan and Hades fit with malefecent, the evil queen and ursula, you would either need some sort of meta house of mouse set up or make it more carnival like

Yes. Let us not forget the original Alien encounter was so scary for little ones they changed it to Stitch Great Escape.

 

[Andrew C]

I think villains land appeals more to adults.

A lot of little people could be scared by villain land so you run the risk of little johnny or jane being terrified. Remember that Disney toned down the original snow white ride and the Alien scene in the great movie ride.

Any attractions will presumably have to have good triumphing so you’re basically making fantasmic the ride.

There is also the question of how you make it coherent, fantasyland works because its fairytale land but I think it would hard to add in non fairytale IPs to a villain’s land - how could you fit scar, shere khan and Hades fit with malefecent, the evil queen and ursula, you would either need some sort of meta house of mouse set up or make it more carnival like

Villains land doesn't need to be super scary. It can still be on par with MNSSHP as far as scares.