News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[britain]

I still don't really like the idea of a Villains Land, for a couple reasons... it's too gimmicky, and you'd be kind of limited with which villains you could use since most of them are already represented elsewhere in the parks (Captain Hook in Peter Pan's Flight, Ursula in the Little Mermaid ride, Gaston in... well, Gaston's Tavern) or don't really lend themselves well to solo attractions (Hans, Bellwether, Frollo). It'd be like doing a "Superhero Land" or a "Princess Land"... I dunno, just feels like a weak premise for a land to me.

Not a fan of having a Zootopia Land in Magic Kingdom either.

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.

Their stories have nothing to do with each other, their “homes” should be nowhere near each other.

They are sociopaths that don’t get along, much less form an alliance with one another, and live in the same neighborhood with one another.

They are an important ingredient in a satisfying story. That’s why they are important parts of the “heroes” attractions. But you wouldn’t make a stew out of nothing but salt, and you shouldn’t make attractions out of nothing but villains.

 

[Animaniac93-98]

The Cinderella Castle Mystery Tour is proof that you can do a successful villain attraction if you create a cohesive experience first [scary castle tour] and punctuate it with properties that fit the aesthetic.

Cruella de Vil, Scar and Hades in the same land doesn't work, but maybe a scary woods and the Forbidden Mountain that reference Snow White, Sleeping Beauty etc would.

 

[LittleBuford]

Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough.

I just thought about it some more and still love the idea.

 

[Touchdown]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.
.

I agree I mean can you imagine if they tried to pull this off as a nighttime spectacular, it would never work…

Fantasyland is the home to all the good characters, Villain land can be its dark reflection, and the villains wouldn’t be palling around, they would be teaming up to conquer the Magic Kingdom.

 

[TheIceBaron]

I’d rather they just do a villains 5th park instead of a land. A galaxy’s edge or Toy Story land sized area would only have maybe 3 rides and maybe a sit down restaurant. To me it makes more sense to have a villains 5th park as you could have an entire park dedicated to all the villains Disney owns like Darth Vader, thanos, etc. so they could have more cohesive lands and areas instead of just a Disney villain version of fantasyland.

 

[Sorcerer Mickey]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.

Their stories have nothing to do with each other, their “homes” should be nowhere near each other.

They are sociopaths that don’t get along, much less form an alliance with one another, and live in the same neighborhood with one another.

They are an important ingredient in a satisfying story. That’s why they are important parts of the “heroes” attractions. But you wouldn’t make a stew out of nothing but salt, and you shouldn’t make attractions out of nothing but villains.

Fantasmic! music intensifies.

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille.

I disagree.

A well executed Villains land could be incredible. Set it in a dark, mysterious, cavern and that one of the Villains has invited all of the others to set up "shop" there. I don't think the villains would interact together as much as you think, outside of a character dining experience. Build one E-ticket centered around one of the "big" villains, and then 1-3 B,C,D tickets around other villains, build a few shops, a bar (ala Oga's), and a restaurant. Perfect.

 

[ToTBellHop]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.

Their stories have nothing to do with each other, their “homes” should be nowhere near each other.

They are sociopaths that don’t get along, much less form an alliance with one another, and live in the same neighborhood with one another.

They are an important ingredient in a satisfying story. That’s why they are important parts of the “heroes” attractions. But you wouldn’t make a stew out of nothing but salt, and you shouldn’t make attractions out of nothing but villains.

Have you seen Fantasmic? Did you play Sorcerers of the Magic Kingdom? Seen Villains Spelltacular? Any number of MK fireworks spectaculars?

Somehow the villains have worked together elsewhere in the parks. That doesn’t have to mean they share an apartment though.

 

[mickEblu]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.

Their stories have nothing to do with each other, their “homes” should be nowhere near each other.

They are sociopaths that don’t get along, much less form an alliance with one another, and live in the same neighborhood with one another.

They are an important ingredient in a satisfying story. That’s why they are important parts of the “heroes” attractions. But you wouldn’t make a stew out of nothing but salt, and you shouldn’t make attractions out of nothing but villains.

Great points. The opportunity to botch a villains land is high but it can be great if executed well. It shouldn’t be a home for ALL the villains. I’m picturing Maleficent’s castle as the centerpiece surrounded by a dark forest. Included would be villains like Maleficent, Chernabog, the Wicked Witch, the Headless Horseman and the Horned King. In other words, the villains that would feel right in that setting and (by looking at this list) also happen to be the darkest of all the villains. Gaston or Scar wouldn’t fit in. Neither would Jafar but he should be saved for a proper Aladdin attraction dark ride anyway. Ursula is in the sea and has enough representation. The Queen of Hearts, Mad Madam Mim, Cruella or Captain Hook wouldn’t fit the tone of what I’m picturing either.

This would work very much how Fantasyland at Disneyland works. All the IP fits with the setting of the land. With all of that said I could see room for some of the villains I excluded in a well thought out E ticket. Just not out and about or having their own attractions.

Zootopia on the other hand just doesn’t work at MK. Especially anywhere near the ROA. Not matter how well it’s executed.

 

[EPCOTCenterLover]

I disagree.

A well executed Villains land could be incredible. Set it in a dark, mysterious, cavern and that one of the Villains has invited all of the others to set up "shop" there. I don't think the villains would interact together as much as you think, outside of a character dining experience. Build one E-ticket centered around one of the "big" villains, and then 1-3 B,C,D tickets around other villains, build a few shops, a bar (ala Oga's), and a restaurant. Perfect.

I’m picturing an Avengers Campus for Villains.

 

[Fox&Hound]

I just wish this would actually happen. The D23 event was all “we have thought about this” but it does not seem set in stone. I know we heard rumors Dis was moving forward on this but is that still true?

 

[MagicHappens1971]

Playing with an AI tool, but wanted to share as part of the Villains discussion.

"Ursula" themed bar

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Great points. The opportunity to botch a villains land is high but it can be great if executed well. It shouldn’t be a home for ALL the villains. I’m picturing Maleficent’s castle as the centerpiece surrounded by a dark forest. Included would be villains like Maleficent, Chernabog, the Wicked Witch, the Headless Horseman and the Horned King. In other words, the villains that would feel right in that setting and (by looking at this list) also happen to be the darkest of all the villains. Gaston or Scar wouldn’t fit in. Neither would Jafar but he should be saved for a proper Aladdin attraction dark ride anyway. Ursula is in the sea and has enough representation. The Queen of Hearts, Mad Madam Mim, Cruella or Captain Hook wouldn’t fit the tone of what I’m picturing either.

This would work very much how Fantasyland at Disneyland works. All the IP fits with the setting of the land. With all of that said I could see room for some of the villains I excluded in a well thought out E ticket. Just not out and about or having their own attractions.

Zootopia on the other hand just doesn’t work at MK. Especially anywhere near the ROA. Not matter how well it’s executed.

I am curious to know what a villains land would look like in practice. I think most of us are imagining mostly a dark or more gothic version of Fantasyland, which certainly could work for the location if it links up with Haunted Mansion/Liberty Square (not sure it's possible to link to Fantasyland from the other side of RoA).

In reality, I have a feeling as many villains as they want would show up with the logic that all the villains 'visit' the land. That doesn't bother me too much for a more fantasy-based land. It would also be kind of cool if this meant less common villains like Claude Frollo and Governor Ratcliffe made appearances alongside the usual suspects.

 

[Bocabear]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.

Their stories have nothing to do with each other, their “homes” should be nowhere near each other.

They are sociopaths that don’t get along, much less form an alliance with one another, and live in the same neighborhood with one another.

They are an important ingredient in a satisfying story. That’s why they are important parts of the “heroes” attractions. But you wouldn’t make a stew out of nothing but salt, and you shouldn’t make attractions out of nothing but villains.

by that thinking though, Fantasyland is cake made of nothing but sugar... I think you express the characters through the architecture of their individual areas...Not sharing a duplex...but an overall darkly themed "village" setting punctuated by the "lairs" of the notorious. The area itself would be a draw...add a big ROTR scale attraction with a couple C attractions and some amazing Harry Potter style shopping and dining.... That, if done right, could be an answer to Epic Universe....

 

[britain]

by that thinking though, Fantasyland is cake made of nothing but sugar...

Not at all. Fantasyland works best when the majority of each ride is dominated by the darkness of the villain in the hero’s story, followed by a triumphant ending where good wins over evil. Fantasyland isn’t all sugar. It has all the ingredients: hero, mentor, sidekick, villain.

Saying “we need a villain land” makes as much sense as saying “we need a sidekicks land” or “we need a mentors land”.

Nighttime spectaculars are silly clip shows, I do not consider them very artistically deep. Even Fantasmic. And yes, I do cringe whenever I hear the villains say to each other “Let’s do it!” as if it’s possible for them to actually collaborate. It’s stupid fluff, but I tolerate it because it’s not set in stone, it’s just a temporary thing over the loudspeakers that will be gone within 30 minutes.

 

[britain]

“Hey why doesn’t Universal build a land dedicated to Voldemort and the death eaters?”

If you answered: “Because the Harry Potter lands are already pretty dark” then I think you’re starting to get it.

Maybe what all this support for a villains land is indicative of is that we actually wish Fantasyland had a little more grit and shadow to it. Like if there were more “Snow White’s Scary Adventures” not “Enchanted Wishes.”

 

[mickEblu]

“Hey why doesn’t Universal build a land dedicated to Voldemort and the death eaters?”

If you answered: “Because the Harry Potter lands are already pretty dark” then I think you’re starting to get it.

Maybe what all this support for a villains land is indicative of is that we actually wish Fantasyland had a little more grit and shadow to it. Like if there were more “Snow White’s Scary Adventures” not “Enchanted Wishes.”

I see what you’re saying but if you think about it Wizarding World is more or less like what a Villains Land and E ticket ride would strive to be. Meaning old village/ dark forest/ dark castle/ E ticket where good vs evil clash. There still has to be some element of good vs evil. I don’t think some help the villain mission would work as well. Maybe for one of the smaller attractions. I think a darker Wizarding World with some more forest is a good template for Villains land.

I do think you are right that many people are probably thinking about a Villains land superficially and not really thinking about how Disney will pull it off - which I guess isn’t really our job. I think the thesis attraction for a Villains Land is a modern E ticket darker version of an old school Fantasyland dark ride on steroids. Which if you think about it really doesn’t exist. The new Frozen (a light E) and BatB rides lack any drama/ conflict.

It really comes down to the execution. The land itself can only be so “dark” unless it’s in a show building. For example it’s easy to say “dark forest.” But in reality you’d have to have a plethora of well grown mature trees with a dense canopy to achieve that feel properly. It would probably end up looking more like an old European village with a dark castle and less like a dark forest which works great at MK especially since it doesn’t have DL’s Fantasyland.

Magic Kingdom needs capacity and Villains Land sounds better than any of the single IP lands. 2023 Disney is not building a Non IP land so if not Villains Land, what? Coco and Encanto are fine (even though I don’t like single IP lands in castle parks) but Villains land is perfect for MK. Considering how Frozen Ever After and the BatB ride turned out it may be the only chance to get a Disney IP (not Star Wars or Marvel) ride with good ol fashioned WED drama/ conflict/ darkness/ macabre.

All this to say bring on Fantasmic - The Ride. Hahah

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Universal are literally in the process of creating a villains land of their own at Epic Universe with Classic Monsters. I think an important key to making a villains land work well is variety. Universal isn't centering their land on a singular monster from what I gather, but a variety of different ones.

And mind you, Universal already did dabble in a villains area with Knockturn Alley. Albeit as a sub section of a larger land. And I think there are plenty of people who would like more of that.

But again regarding variety. Voldemort is just one single villain from a single story. To make matters worse, there's not really a singular iconic "lair" setting that i'd associate him with. The Malfoy Manor is the closest thing that might come to mind, but it's a temporary base that isn't really his own. Not only are there a ton of Disney villains to draw from, most of their lairs are also varied and interesting. Same goes for Classic Monsters.

Given their trends in recent attractions and animated films, I just don't think Disney is interested in the classic "evil and loving it" villains anymore. Tiana's Bayou Adventure won't have a villain. Tokyo's BATB ride relegated Gaston and the mob to shadow projections shoved into a background wall (and it was a movie that already diverged somewhat from a traditional villain). And they heavily reduced the scares and witch appearances (and removed all the skeletons) from Snow White at DL.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

We have so many other better properties that could use rides/lands then Ice Age…

If Ice Age meant Dinoland would be safe from getting the axe, I'm all for it.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

I just wish this would actually happen. The D23 event was all “we have thought about this” but it does not seem set in stone. I know we heard rumors Dis was moving forward on this but is that still true?

According to what a friend of mine in the know told me, the answer on Villains Land is, for right now, "No." There is something in development that is almost financially greenlit that is not one of the three already mentioned options. My friend personally thinks this idea is a terrible fit for MK and was encouraging their source to try to stop it from happening. They would not tell me what IP it is based on, but it is based on an IP. They told me the following direct quote: "I have seriously no idea how anyone at Disney could think it's a good idea to do this."