News 'Beyond Big Thunder Mountain' Blue Sky concept revealed for Magic Kingdom

[MagicHappens1971]

Playing with an AI tool, but wanted to share as part of the Villains discussion.

"Ursula" themed bar

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Great points. The opportunity to botch a villains land is high but it can be great if executed well. It shouldn’t be a home for ALL the villains. I’m picturing Maleficent’s castle as the centerpiece surrounded by a dark forest. Included would be villains like Maleficent, Chernabog, the Wicked Witch, the Headless Horseman and the Horned King. In other words, the villains that would feel right in that setting and (by looking at this list) also happen to be the darkest of all the villains. Gaston or Scar wouldn’t fit in. Neither would Jafar but he should be saved for a proper Aladdin attraction dark ride anyway. Ursula is in the sea and has enough representation. The Queen of Hearts, Mad Madam Mim, Cruella or Captain Hook wouldn’t fit the tone of what I’m picturing either.

This would work very much how Fantasyland at Disneyland works. All the IP fits with the setting of the land. With all of that said I could see room for some of the villains I excluded in a well thought out E ticket. Just not out and about or having their own attractions.

Zootopia on the other hand just doesn’t work at MK. Especially anywhere near the ROA. Not matter how well it’s executed.

I am curious to know what a villains land would look like in practice. I think most of us are imagining mostly a dark or more gothic version of Fantasyland, which certainly could work for the location if it links up with Haunted Mansion/Liberty Square (not sure it's possible to link to Fantasyland from the other side of RoA).

In reality, I have a feeling as many villains as they want would show up with the logic that all the villains 'visit' the land. That doesn't bother me too much for a more fantasy-based land. It would also be kind of cool if this meant less common villains like Claude Frollo and Governor Ratcliffe made appearances alongside the usual suspects.

 

[Bocabear]

Agreed. Anyone who likes villains land isn’t thinking about it deeply enough. It would NOT be a satisfying immersive experience to see Captain Hook pal around with Ursula, and Cruella DeVille. That would EMPHASIZE the fact that they are not actually villains but they are copyrighted characters that just happened to be owned by the same company.

Their stories have nothing to do with each other, their “homes” should be nowhere near each other.

They are sociopaths that don’t get along, much less form an alliance with one another, and live in the same neighborhood with one another.

They are an important ingredient in a satisfying story. That’s why they are important parts of the “heroes” attractions. But you wouldn’t make a stew out of nothing but salt, and you shouldn’t make attractions out of nothing but villains.

by that thinking though, Fantasyland is cake made of nothing but sugar... I think you express the characters through the architecture of their individual areas...Not sharing a duplex...but an overall darkly themed "village" setting punctuated by the "lairs" of the notorious. The area itself would be a draw...add a big ROTR scale attraction with a couple C attractions and some amazing Harry Potter style shopping and dining.... That, if done right, could be an answer to Epic Universe....

 

[britain]

by that thinking though, Fantasyland is cake made of nothing but sugar...

Not at all. Fantasyland works best when the majority of each ride is dominated by the darkness of the villain in the hero’s story, followed by a triumphant ending where good wins over evil. Fantasyland isn’t all sugar. It has all the ingredients: hero, mentor, sidekick, villain.

Saying “we need a villain land” makes as much sense as saying “we need a sidekicks land” or “we need a mentors land”.

Nighttime spectaculars are silly clip shows, I do not consider them very artistically deep. Even Fantasmic. And yes, I do cringe whenever I hear the villains say to each other “Let’s do it!” as if it’s possible for them to actually collaborate. It’s stupid fluff, but I tolerate it because it’s not set in stone, it’s just a temporary thing over the loudspeakers that will be gone within 30 minutes.

 

[britain]

“Hey why doesn’t Universal build a land dedicated to Voldemort and the death eaters?”

If you answered: “Because the Harry Potter lands are already pretty dark” then I think you’re starting to get it.

Maybe what all this support for a villains land is indicative of is that we actually wish Fantasyland had a little more grit and shadow to it. Like if there were more “Snow White’s Scary Adventures” not “Enchanted Wishes.”

 

[mickEblu]

“Hey why doesn’t Universal build a land dedicated to Voldemort and the death eaters?”

If you answered: “Because the Harry Potter lands are already pretty dark” then I think you’re starting to get it.

Maybe what all this support for a villains land is indicative of is that we actually wish Fantasyland had a little more grit and shadow to it. Like if there were more “Snow White’s Scary Adventures” not “Enchanted Wishes.”

I see what you’re saying but if you think about it Wizarding World is more or less like what a Villains Land and E ticket ride would strive to be. Meaning old village/ dark forest/ dark castle/ E ticket where good vs evil clash. There still has to be some element of good vs evil. I don’t think some help the villain mission would work as well. Maybe for one of the smaller attractions. I think a darker Wizarding World with some more forest is a good template for Villains land.

I do think you are right that many people are probably thinking about a Villains land superficially and not really thinking about how Disney will pull it off - which I guess isn’t really our job. I think the thesis attraction for a Villains Land is a modern E ticket darker version of an old school Fantasyland dark ride on steroids. Which if you think about it really doesn’t exist. The new Frozen (a light E) and BatB rides lack any drama/ conflict.

It really comes down to the execution. The land itself can only be so “dark” unless it’s in a show building. For example it’s easy to say “dark forest.” But in reality you’d have to have a plethora of well grown mature trees with a dense canopy to achieve that feel properly. It would probably end up looking more like an old European village with a dark castle and less like a dark forest which works great at MK especially since it doesn’t have DL’s Fantasyland.

Magic Kingdom needs capacity and Villains Land sounds better than any of the single IP lands. 2023 Disney is not building a Non IP land so if not Villains Land, what? Coco and Encanto are fine (even though I don’t like single IP lands in castle parks) but Villains land is perfect for MK. Considering how Frozen Ever After and the BatB ride turned out it may be the only chance to get a Disney IP (not Star Wars or Marvel) ride with good ol fashioned WED drama/ conflict/ darkness/ macabre.

All this to say bring on Fantasmic - The Ride. Hahah

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

Universal are literally in the process of creating a villains land of their own at Epic Universe with Classic Monsters. I think an important key to making a villains land work well is variety. Universal isn't centering their land on a singular monster from what I gather, but a variety of different ones.

And mind you, Universal already did dabble in a villains area with Knockturn Alley. Albeit as a sub section of a larger land. And I think there are plenty of people who would like more of that.

But again regarding variety. Voldemort is just one single villain from a single story. To make matters worse, there's not really a singular iconic "lair" setting that i'd associate him with. The Malfoy Manor is the closest thing that might come to mind, but it's a temporary base that isn't really his own. Not only are there a ton of Disney villains to draw from, most of their lairs are also varied and interesting. Same goes for Classic Monsters.

Given their trends in recent attractions and animated films, I just don't think Disney is interested in the classic "evil and loving it" villains anymore. Tiana's Bayou Adventure won't have a villain. Tokyo's BATB ride relegated Gaston and the mob to shadow projections shoved into a background wall (and it was a movie that already diverged somewhat from a traditional villain). And they heavily reduced the scares and witch appearances (and removed all the skeletons) from Snow White at DL.

 

[BrerFoxesBayouAdventure]

We have so many other better properties that could use rides/lands then Ice Age…

If Ice Age meant Dinoland would be safe from getting the axe, I'm all for it.

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

I just wish this would actually happen. The D23 event was all “we have thought about this” but it does not seem set in stone. I know we heard rumors Dis was moving forward on this but is that still true?

According to what a friend of mine in the know told me, the answer on Villains Land is, for right now, "No." There is something in development that is almost financially greenlit that is not one of the three already mentioned options. My friend personally thinks this idea is a terrible fit for MK and was encouraging their source to try to stop it from happening. They would not tell me what IP it is based on, but it is based on an IP. They told me the following direct quote: "I have seriously no idea how anyone at Disney could think it's a good idea to do this."

 

[mickEblu]

According to what a friend of mine in the know told me, the answer on Villains Land is, for right now, "No." There is something in development that is almost financially greenlit that is not one of the three already mentioned options. My friend personally thinks this idea is a terrible fit for MK and was encouraging their source to try to stop it from happening. They would not tell me what IP it is based on, but it is based on an IP. They told me the following direct quote: "I have seriously no idea how anyone at Disney could think it's a good idea to do this."

Sounds like Zootopia to me. Just to save a few bucks on the R&D. Shame

 

[Disgruntled Walt]

Sounds like Zootopia to me. Just to save a few bucks on the R&D. Shame

Apparently, and I heard this from someone who worked on the TRON import to MK, cloning a ride from overseas saves a negligible amount of money. They told me that for the money they spent on TRON here in the USA they could have built an entirely new track layout for the coaster.

So I don't understand why they're always trying to copy if it doesn't actually save them money.

 

[mickEblu]

Apparently, and I heard this from someone who worked on the TRON import to MK, cloning a ride from overseas saves a negligible amount of money. They told me that for the money they spent on TRON here in the USA they could have built an entirely new track layout for the coaster.

So I don't understand why they're always trying to copy if it doesn't actually save them money.

SMH. Doesn’t make any sense. Hope they get boo’d at D23. And I know a lot of those people will cheer for anything but now you already teased people with something they really wanted.

 

[britain]

Apparently, and I heard this from someone who worked on the TRON import to MK, cloning a ride from overseas saves a negligible amount of money. They told me that for the money they spent on TRON here in the USA they could have built an entirely new track layout for the coaster.

So I don't understand why they're always trying to copy if it doesn't actually save them money.

A big lesson taught in business school is to eliminate variation wherever you can. Less variation, more efficiencies up and down the supply chain - even if it’s more expensive at first. The future profitability of a product line will be less bumpy if there’s less customization offered.

I don’t think they see unique versions of attractions as a plus. They see them as a minus. (Foolish, I know.)

I wonder if Disney thinks things like…

Did the Haunted Mansion movie fail because more people in the world are familiar with the WDW mansion? Did the movie suffer in Europe / China because it has nothing to do with Phantom Manor or Mystic Manor?

Can we sell 1 pirates play set rather than 5? Oh wait, is Redd not in each version of PotC yet?

Disney Parks at their finest, ladies and gentlemen.

 

[EricsBiscuit]

I can’t imagine how much internal politics at WDI and up and down the parks’ hierarchy has a hand in delaying and deflating these projects. Josh doesn’t have the principles or vision to cut through that Gordian Knot and build efficiently.

 

[Mike S]

A big lesson taught in business school is to eliminate variation wherever you can. Less variation, more efficiencies up and down the supply chain - even if it’s more expensive at first. The future profitability of a product line will be less bumpy if there’s less customization offered.

I don’t think they see unique versions of attractions as a plus. They see them as a minus. (Foolish, I know.)

I wonder if Disney thinks things like…

Did the Haunted Mansion movie fail because more people in the world are familiar with the WDW mansion? Did the movie suffer in Europe / China because it has nothing to do with Phantom Manor or Mystic Manor?

Can we sell 1 pirates play set rather than 5? Oh wait, is Redd not in each version of PotC yet?

Disney Parks at their finest, ladies and gentlemen.

I’ve had a ride-to-movie idea for a long while now: Found footage style Expedition Everest. Todays Disney (or really any Disney) would never make it even though it could be released under FOX.

Then again, they’re continuing on with Alien and Predator post purchase so who knows? My idea wouldn’t even touch those on the gore factor lol.

 

[MisterPenguin]

Apparently, and I heard this from someone who worked on the TRON import to MK, cloning a ride from overseas saves a negligible amount of money. They told me that for the money they spent on TRON here in the USA they could have built an entirely new track layout for the coaster.

So I don't understand why they're always trying to copy if it doesn't actually save them money.

With respect to TRON:

1. They know it's well received.​

2. It's one of the few somewhat famous IPs that fit in Tomorrowland.​

3. They have plans for new TRON content.​

4. They needed, at one time, to have a 'gift' to the MK for the 50th.​

5. While they spend nearly the same amount of money as a 'new' coaster, it's a known entity that's not going to have major issues when it opens (cf. Hagrid's Motorbike).​

Any one of these by itself isn't a strong rationale for TRON, but all together, it works.

 

[Rosso11]

For the majority of decisions at this level it’s actually WDW president Jeff Vahle who’s making them. It’s not as much Josh, Bob or the imagineers as you would think. The Imagineers present their ideas to Jeff then he makes the decisions on what to green light for WDW and at what budget he wants them delivered at in order to fit his internal budgets. Unless it’s a project like Galaxy’s Edge that is being mandated in both coasts from the top the WDW president makes most of the calls.

 

[Brer Panther]

If Ice Age meant Dinoland would be safe from getting the axe, I'm all for it.

I fully agree.

Oh, and say what you want about the sequels, but the first Ice Age is in my opinion a genuinely good movie.

 

[Sir_Cliff]

Not at all. Fantasyland works best when the majority of each ride is dominated by the darkness of the villain in the hero’s story, followed by a triumphant ending where good wins over evil. Fantasyland isn’t all sugar. It has all the ingredients: hero, mentor, sidekick, villain.

Saying “we need a villain land” makes as much sense as saying “we need a sidekicks land” or “we need a mentors land”.

Nighttime spectaculars are silly clip shows, I do not consider them very artistically deep. Even Fantasmic. And yes, I do cringe whenever I hear the villains say to each other “Let’s do it!” as if it’s possible for them to actually collaborate. It’s stupid fluff, but I tolerate it because it’s not set in stone, it’s just a temporary thing over the loudspeakers that will be gone within 30 minutes.

This is where I am mixed on the idea of a Villains land. As a series of meet-and-greets and stores, it works. I'm less sure what the attractions would be, other than more or less traditional Fantasyland attractions.

This is Disney, so they can't have the villains win. All I can imagine is, for example, a Sleeping Beauty or some such attraction that heavily features the villain and in which they are ultimately defeated by the hero. I certainly can't imagine some sort of buddy movie where Cruella, Maleficient, and Hades team up to defeat the Dalmatians, Sleeping Beauty, and Hercules.

 

[Bocabear]

I still can't believe Cinderella 3 was ever greenlit....lol