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BAH(on tv)
- Thread starter beyondyou
- Start date
MarkTwain
Well-Known Member
:dazzle:
EpcotServo wins. :sohappy:
I guess what one could take away from this is that although the Earful Tower may have been the original icon, the Chinese Theatre should have been. It absolutely personifies the (ideal) intent of the studios better. Hopefully if/when the BAH is removed, the Theatre will be promoted as the new icon.
DecWDW
Member
I've always thought of the ET as the park icon. I don't mind the hat, but I'd vote to move it somewhere else in the park, don't know where though. Recently, DVC has been sending emails featuring DeeVee Cee videos and it shows her drawn with the park icons and what they use for the Studios is the Earful Tower.
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
You kids can fight about any/everything ad naseum. Just reading tires me to the point where I need a vacation, so I think I'm going to Disney World.
Seriously, though, what's worse is when you fight over factual matters. You may not like it ... or agree with why it was chosen ... or feel it worked ... but the Earful Tower was always designed as the ICON of the park. That's just a fact.
I know some of you believe the ICON must be the centerpiece/weenie and that's also not true.
And the ONLY reason the BAH was created was to allow merchandise to sell more Disney-branded crap, to pretend that the 100 Years of Dead Guy Walt was more than a marketing scam and to allow the Theater/GMR to be gutted for a thrill ride that thankfully did not happen.
Now ... those are the facts. You can go back to arguing which flavor of pxie dust you prefer.
I need to pack my Mickey undies.
Seriously, though, what's worse is when you fight over factual matters. You may not like it ... or agree with why it was chosen ... or feel it worked ... but the Earful Tower was always designed as the ICON of the park. That's just a fact.
I know some of you believe the ICON must be the centerpiece/weenie and that's also not true.
And the ONLY reason the BAH was created was to allow merchandise to sell more Disney-branded crap, to pretend that the 100 Years of Dead Guy Walt was more than a marketing scam and to allow the Theater/GMR to be gutted for a thrill ride that thankfully did not happen.
Now ... those are the facts. You can go back to arguing which flavor of pxie dust you prefer.
I need to pack my Mickey undies.
trr1
Well-Known Member
I never heard of the Theater/GMR to be gutted for a thrill ride do you have any other detail of this? and what was to be there
WDW1974
Well-Known Member
Only that it was to be themed to the Disney villains and used CAVE technology (think next generation of EMVs). And the thought was the BAH provided a perfect portal if you will in front ... since the Theater would no longer have had the same facade. Likely a very basic soundstage type look.
And I do believe this is where some of the many 'Disney villains fifth gate' and 'Bald Mountain for MK' ideas sprouted from ... only this one actually existed in reality.
:xmas:
Wilt Dasney
Well-Known Member
Caramel mocha, but orange-raspberry will work in a pinch.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
Shoulda, coulda, woulda, and I wish. The Theater isn't something that screams "DISNEY", though. I don't think it can take that kind of marketing status.
Have a good trip, and thanks. :wave:
TTA-ATW
Member
Hat Idea's
I like your idea for the hat Scar. Instead of having real projectors in the camera's display things on the hat I think the picture would be much clearer if you could wrap OLED's around the entire hat and use the camera's as places for characters or directors like you suggested to pretend to be projecting and draw a crowd to watch the show with a character at different locations. I like the idea of the film strip wrapped around the hat but have it as one of the types of shows that would be played on the hat intermittently throughout the day. Just think of the possibilities of a cone/hat shaped OLED screen. Now we are talking about Icon worthy BAH's. A night time fireworks show that goes on above the hat synced to music and magical moments of Hollywood could be played on the hat and the finale would be to make the hat almost disappear by playing a picture taken from the spot where the hat sits in 360 so it looks like you are looking directly through the hat no matter where you are standing.
Thanks Scar
BTW: The Earful Tower will always be the icon to me :lookaroun sorry couldn't help myself. lol
I like your idea for the hat Scar. Instead of having real projectors in the camera's display things on the hat I think the picture would be much clearer if you could wrap OLED's around the entire hat and use the camera's as places for characters or directors like you suggested to pretend to be projecting and draw a crowd to watch the show with a character at different locations. I like the idea of the film strip wrapped around the hat but have it as one of the types of shows that would be played on the hat intermittently throughout the day. Just think of the possibilities of a cone/hat shaped OLED screen. Now we are talking about Icon worthy BAH's. A night time fireworks show that goes on above the hat synced to music and magical moments of Hollywood could be played on the hat and the finale would be to make the hat almost disappear by playing a picture taken from the spot where the hat sits in 360 so it looks like you are looking directly through the hat no matter where you are standing.
Thanks Scar
BTW: The Earful Tower will always be the icon to me :lookaroun sorry couldn't help myself. lol
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
Tree of Life, Spaceship Earth, Mt. Prometheus...none of them scream "Disney" by those standards. It's the magic of the building and what it represents.
And I don't buy the "It doesn't count because it's a real building" arguement, I've been to the real Chinese Theater and ours is a world apart. It's about three times bigger and grander and more opulent. An icon is an icon, it's like saying Matterhorn isn't "Disney" because people think of the real Matterhorn when they see a picture of the real Matterhorn instead of Disneyland.
To restate my argument:
Screw Marketing.
sweetpee_1993
Well-Known Member
Servo, this totally meshes with a conversation we had with our host Imagineer during the Lunch w/and Imagineer in May '08. The conversation turned to the sources who did the actual designs for the things we see in the parks. Tim discussed with us how not everything you see comes from WDI. Marketing brings them projects that they are obligated to design & see to it that they get constructed properly. The biggest examples he used was the BAH & the Swan & Dolphin hotels. His sentiments were much like the rest of us with the BAH: it disrupts the story. The old-school WDI guys value story as a major fundamental in what they do. Marketing doesn't care so much about story as their priorities are to serve their own needs. The Swan & Dolphin are sore spots with WDI because of their disruption while guests are in World Showcase. They disrupt the skyline so a lot of what he referred to as "the salty dogs" look at them as an eyesore and major shoulda-never-happened.
Scar, I totally loooove your ideas for a big hat. I think the hat is a great icon or weenie in itself but the things you illustrated would really "plus" it in a fantastic way. The possibilities are endless and the fact that the film strip could change with whatever the latest-n-greatest Disney release is could really add to the marketing appeal. Your hat would be incredible if it were placed maybe out where the Christmas tree is placed or above the ticket windows & turnstyles or something....just so that the story isn't disrupted when you walk in the park with an overwhelming element that completely doesn't fit. You know?to quote a past thread of mineD)...
I've been racking my brain trying to think of where I heard or read something very similar to this recently. It was stated that the BAH was put into place to "celebrate" Walt's 100th birthday and not originally intended to be permanent...much like the dreaded wand of the millenium addition to SSE. I've been pouring over this thought a lot. As I stated above, I was told by an Imagineer WDI does not favor the hat, that it originated from marketing which meshes with what you said above. I'm just curious how a temporary marketing idea turns into something so permanent-ish. :shrug: I've never heard that there was a plan to change the GMR to something else entirely. That's interesting. I wonder how many other attractions or spaces have had such plans or ideas developed for them. Very fascinating stuff, indeed!
Eh, I lean more towards the "old salty dogs" of WDI, that story should be the A#1 biggest consideration when it comes to these things. The attention to detail & story is what primarily sets Disney parks apart from other theme parks. Marketing shouldn't be shooting themselves in the foot and jacking with that.
sweetpee_1993
Well-Known Member
Amen, brother! :wave::lol:
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
You have GOT to be kidding. Seriously. Spaceship Earth, not Disney!? Tree of Life, not Disney!? Prometheus, I'll give you a little credit for, but SSE and the ToL will be recognized within seconds. They are unlike any other structure on Earth. People see those and know of their connections.
Show the pic of the Theater in Hollywood and the one in DHS side by side, and I doubt people will know the difference. That's the problem. People will identify it with Hollywood, but not DISNEY Hollywood. The Earful Tower? Yes. That's easy. A Hollywood Water Tower with Disney Flair. It fits perfectly.
Yeah, screw Marketing, in THIS sense, but don't underestimate it. People know more that you think about Disney, and in that, know what it is, and what it isn't.
To reiterate.... Move the Earful Tower to the front of the park. I'll miss it driving in, but it'll end this argument.
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
No, people only THINK they know more than what I think they know.
That's Marketing's job.
:lol:
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
:lookarounSeriously though, The Theater is identified with REAL Hollywood, out of the park. In the park, yeah, it works great as a sub icon and as a weenie. There's no comparing it to SSE and ToL, though. That's just crazy Studios Talk from StudioServo.
:lookaroun:lol:
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
Seriously though, The Theater is identified with REAL Hollywood, out of the park. In the park, yeah, it works great as a sub icon and as a weenie. There's no comparing it to SSE and ToL, though. That's just crazy Studios Talk from StudioServo.
:lookaroun:lol:
You are right there...Spaceship Earth and tree of life are the best. But the Chinese Theater is better than our Castle...
:lookaroun :zipit:
Sorry, I'm not feeling well, it just slipped out...
:lol:
And it's not attributed to real Hollywood...It's attributed to the Hollywood state of mind. It's like saying people think of the Castle as the one in Germany-Not the one at Disneyland.
It's not like you see the Chinese Theater on an ad for Studios and say "Let's go to Hollywood instead of Disney World". People are smarter than that, barely. :lol:
What matters is that the icon encapsulate and draw you into the spirit and nature of the park. Chinese Theater is the one that does that for Studios, all I'm sayin'.
Go to Hollywood and see what I'm talking about-The Hollywood people actually visit is long gone, had they actually stuck by the theater this conversation would be obsolete...It's authority as Awesome Icon has been undermined by the fact they put a fake Icon in front of it.
:hammer:
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
You did NOT just put down the Castle.:lookaroun:lol:
State of Mind? Maybe. But as you know, a Theme Park with a Castle in the center of it has been attributed to Disney in the public mind for over 50 years now. Especially in this setting. A REPLICA Theater that is based off a very famous one in a REAL place? That's different. It's a carbon copy, where as the Castles are based off real architecture, but unique. I think that would only work if we had gotten a Theater BASED off a original "archetypical" one.
Again, what you describe with "Spirit and Nature" is also done by the weenie. That's just standard WDI Talk.
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
Like I said...Not a carbon copy. I should know, I've been to both...:lol:
I'll give you it's different...(Even though like I mentioned, not too Different. You'll find representations of real places and real buildings at Disney everywhere. I mean, look at World Showcase for the most literal example. Let alone Studios and Animal Kingdom.)
But even so, this goes back to "Different" isn't "bad", you know...
And the phrase "Again, what you describe as "Spirit and Nature" is..." is hilariously out of place when talking about spiritual and thematic matters. With the airquotes and everything... :lol:
And in the heart of Movie Fans, There is no Archetypal theater. All Theaters are unique, but the only one that has ever been iconic, is the Chinese Theater. They could've done an over the top theater with all the bells and whistles, and it would never captivate as much emotion as the facade of that building. It's part of our mythos. Look at the TCM Classic Film Festival Ad, it's the first thing you see.
EPCOT Explorer
New Member
How many people know that it's not a carbon copy. I did, but that's just because I'm here, and I am talking to you. :lol:
Representations work well as weenies, then. You just said it. World Showcase, DAK, and Studios. The only exception, are obviously our Castles, which has been a symbol of a DISNEY THEME PARK for over 50 years, now. 50 years ago, I doubt that would have worked. (Just showing a person a picture of SB Castle, and asking them to identify it) I don't think that works with our Theater. It might illicit the "Hollywood" response, which is good for the theme, but not good for having people know that it's Disney.
...Which is marketing. Which you might find to be negative. Honestly, I do too, here. But, it's true. The ICON of the park needs to be something DISNEY. Something that people can see, and identify with WDW. I don't think that the Theater does that, and the BAH OVERDOES that. You need a happy balance. And that's out friend, the Earful Tower. Poor thing's been pushed to the back of the park for too long. I am honestly starting to think that he needs to be moved ala DSP.
Different isn't bad, I think this diatribe I just posted shows that! :lol:
Don't see how the "airquotes" are out of place there. I was describing a weenie. Not the icon.
EpcotServo
Well-Known Member
No, it was just you kind of fudge getting to argue about emotional connection and inspiration by putting it cold scientific legal terms.
Like say
:lol: