Bad news from our friends at MiceAge...

[Ignohippo]

As I was reading Parentsof4's post, I thought much the same--Nick Hotel is as much a threat to WDW as Potter is. A Great Wolf Lodge along I-Drive could be a huge game-changer as well.

But as long as guests have a car anyway ... suddenly "the water park with the dolphins" or "that new giant Ferris Wheel" becomes a real option. Very quickly 2 days off-property can be 3, maybe 4. This isn't "Disney v. Universal." This is "WDW Property v. everywhere else around town."

Exactly. Uni is just the biggest threat among many.

That's one of the reasons I think they made such a huge mistake putting Legoland way out in the old Cypress Gardens location. Yes, almost that entire park is actually the old Cypress Gardens, but every penny they saved by the remote location and existing facilities would have been gained 10-fold if it would have been built closer to Uni or WDW.

And, had Merlin and Uni partnered, and Legoland been built where the Cabana Bay Beach Resort is going now on Uni property (and a hotel shoe-horned into the location as well), it would have been the last piece to the puzzle of Uni really striking a deathblow to WDW. Uni has tons of things for kids to do, but it's known as more of an adult park. Legoland would have been the final thing Uni needs to finally capture the family dollar.

 

[PorterRedkey]

The first time I was able to take my wife to WDW, I asked her to keep an eye out for trash on the ground. I told her that WDW is probably the cleanest place you will ever see, especially in terms of a theme park environment. That was 18 years ago. Now, I honestly don't even mention that little exercise. I don't seek out things that are broke or weathered or dirty, but when I used to make a point of TRYING to find the "dirt", but I now instead make a point of trying NOT to notice the "dirt", something is wrong. I'm not saying that the sky is falling (yet?), but Disney created and established these standards, not me. But generations of people have bought into this idea of excellent and unparalleled quality. All I want is for Disney to maintain it. Especially if they expect me to keep "buying" it.

I remember my dad boasting to his friends about how clean WDW was after a recent visit in the 70's. He used to say if you dropped a piece of popcorn at MK there would be someone there to sweep it up before you took 2 steps. My dad was not easily impressed by things. He was a bit of a cynic. So it impressed me that Disney could impress him. I think that started my Disney fascination. The fact that Disney went above and beyond what you thought possible, in order to provide unparalleled service and one-of-a-kind attractions.

 

[Ignohippo]

Lol.. if you are looking at the ceiling the whole time, your missing out on the ride scenery...

The "negative" comments you see are simply due to a complete love for Disney and WDW. We know how good they have been and how good they can be. We spend a lot of money at the WDW Resort and hope to in the future. The competition has now upped its game to the level we used to expect from Disney and we all want to see Disney return to that level.

Personally, I love WDW however my dollar doesn't stretch like it used to and we have to make serious decisions on to where we spend our money. As Annual Passholders for the past 7 years, the parks have become incredibly stale. The parks simply aren't given new additions at the rate other parks are. If things don't change, we won't be renewing our passes and will choose to become passholders at Uni, Busch Gardens and Legoland instead (for nearly the same amount we spend for annual passes at WDW).

Oh, and fyi, it's "you're" as in, "you are". Not "your".

 

[danlb_2000]

It seems like most of the posters are so concerned with finding the negative things that they forget about the good things right in front of them. You guys need to lighten up.

A message board where everyone just universally praises everything Disney does sounds like a boring place to me. People here are critical of Disney because they are fans and they want the parks to be the best that they can be. You may not be seeing these negative things on your visit, but how would you feel if things decline to a point where you do start noticing them?

 

[71jason]

Exactly. Uni is just the biggest threat among many.

That's one of the reasons I think they made such a huge mistake putting Legoland way out in the old Cypress Gardens location. Yes, almost that entire park is actually the old Cypress Gardens, but every penny they saved by the remote location and existing facilities would have been gained 10-fold if it would have been built closer to Uni or WDW.

I totally agree. If LegoLand had gone in the old Splendid China on west 192 as was originally planned--an area experiencing huge growth even without it--this board would be having very different conversations right now.

 

[asianway]

You think Diz officials look through these pages and go..., look at all those upset people!.

No, they look for "influencers" and then try to hire professional social media consultants to get them under control

 

[lazyboy97o]

And, had Merlin and Uni partnered, and Legoland been built where the Cabana Bay Beach Resort is going now on Uni property (and a hotel shoe-horned into the location as well), it would have been the last piece to the puzzle of Uni really striking a deathblow to WDW. Uni has tons of things for kids to do, but it's known as more of an adult park. Legoland would have been the final thing Uni needs to finally capture the family dollar.

That probably would have required continued involvement with The Blackstone Group who likely would not be keen on Comcast's building spree.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Exactly. Uni is just the biggest threat among many.

Walt Disney parks and resorts total attendance 2012:
126,479,000

Universal Studios recreation groups total attendance 2012:
34.515,000


Um, biggest threat?


Jimmy Thick- Has Miceage ever been right about anything btw? Havin' a hard time finding anything factual.

 

[rd805]

Walt Disney parks and resorts total attendance 2012:
126,479,000

Universal Studios recreation groups total attendance 2012:
34.515,000


Um, biggest threat?


Jimmy Thick- Has Miceage ever been right about anything btw? Havin' a hard time finding anything factual.

2012 attendance doesn't mean too much to me.

 

[Ignohippo]

Walt Disney parks and resorts total attendance 2012:
126,479,000

Universal Studios recreation groups total attendance 2012:
34.515,000


Um, biggest threat?


Jimmy Thick- Has Miceage ever been right about anything btw? Havin' a hard time finding anything factual.

You simply don't get it.

It isn't about how many visitors each draws – it's about how many visitors Uni and the surrounding attractions TAKE AWAY.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

2012 attendance doesn't mean too much to me.

Think of it this way, if you had to take one dollar from each person from both companies, but could only keep the money from one, which one would it be?

Jimmy Thick- Yes, its that simple.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

You simply don't get it.

It isn't about how many visitors each draws – it's about how many visitors Uni and the surrounding attractions TAKE AWAY.

Proof Uni is taking massive profits away from anyone?

Jimmy Thick- Bueller?

 

[rd805]

Think of it this way, if you had to take one dollar from each person from both companies, but could only keep the money from one, which one would it be?

Jimmy Thick- Yes, its that simple.

Jimmy, i'm usually a big fan of your posts...but i think i see the Uni growth a much bigger issue for Disney.
I'm probably wrong haha.

 

[Jimmy Thick]

Jimmy, i'm usually a big fan of your posts...but i think i see the Uni growth a much bigger issue for Disney.
I'm probably wrong haha.

Honestly, its good for everyone visiting Orlando. Universal before Potter was never busy and they do have some amazing attractions. Are they better than Disney just because of Potter, in my opinion of course not, but if some people wish to march forward with a Universal banner like some Japanese fiefdom claiming some mythical land has been conquered, so be it.

I will visit both parks and be happy.

Jimmy Thick- No ones opinion is never wrong...Unless its illegal...

 

[danlb_2000]

Walt Disney parks and resorts total attendance 2012:
126,479,000

Universal Studios recreation groups total attendance 2012:
34.515,000


Um, biggest threat?


Jimmy Thick- Has Miceage ever been right about anything btw? Havin' a hard time finding anything factual.

So hypothetically if Uni someone managed to take 10 million people away from Disney your post would look like this:

Walt Disney parks and resorts total attendance 2012:
116,479,000
Universal Studios recreation groups total attendance 2012:
44,515,000

Um, biggest threat?

But don't you think heads would be rolling in Disney management in this scenario? Just trying to demonstrate that the absolute numbers don't tell the whole story.

 

[nor'easter]

A message board where everyone just universally praises everything Disney does sounds like a boring place to me.

Yes, you'd only have the likes of Disney Daddy and Jimminy Thicket fawning over things like new toilets and plastic bracelets.

 

[SirLink]

So hypothetically if Uni someone managed to take 10 million people away from Disney your post would look like this:

Walt Disney parks and resorts total attendance 2012:
116,479,000
Universal Studios recreation groups total attendance 2012:
44,515,000

Um, biggest threat?

But don't you think heads would be rolling in Disney management in this scenario? Just trying to demonstrate that the absolute numbers don't tell the whole story.

I had to check my ignored content, but, if your forecast to be getting $X from average guest spending and you only have a 1% increase, whilst the competition has been seeing double figure percentage increases - you have to wonder what will get them to wake up and smell the coffee - it is burnt after all ... or this that stale musty coffee

 

[Ignohippo]

I had to check my ignored content, but, if your forecast to be getting $X from average guest spending and you only have a 1% increase, whilst the competition has been seeing double figure percentage increases - you have to wonder what will get them to wake up and smell the coffee - it is burnt after all ... or this that stale musty coffee

They'll wake up when they actually see a decrease in actual visitors, spending on the resort level, and spending per guest. They've been teetering on that edge for the last couple of years – it won't take much for those numbers to turn quite negative.

Not only is that day coming (I wouldn't be surprised to see attendance and spending both down in 2015*), but it will be an especially rude awakening when they see NextGen hasn't done anything to stop the erosion.

*in 2015, WDW will be without any kind of new addition, Potter2 and Cabana Bay both will have opened at Uni, and DTD will be in the midst of a complete mess as it transitions to DisneySprings.

 

[SirLink]

They'll wake up when they actually see a decrease in actual visitors, spending on the resort level, and spending per guest. They've been teetering on that edge for the last couple of years – it won't take much for those numbers to turn quite negative.

Not only is that day coming (I wouldn't be surprised to see attendance and spending both down in 2015*), but it will be an especially rude awakening when they see NextGen hasn't done anything to stop the erosion.

*in 2015, WDW will be without any kind of new addition, Potter2 and Cabana Bay both will have opened at Uni, and DTD will be in the midst of a complete mess as it transitions to DisneySprings.

Well they will have new fireworks ... but still I don't think the Board will tolerate Bob Iger and his cronies keep delaying this "windfall" of extra income from MyMagic+ I give it a year before they force him to "retire" as well as some of the other executives over the implementation.

 

[ParentsOf4]

So hypothetically if Uni someone managed to take 10 million people away from Disney your post would look like this:

Walt Disney parks and resorts total attendance 2012:
116,479,000
Universal Studios recreation groups total attendance 2012:
44,515,000

Um, biggest threat?

But don't you think heads would be rolling in Disney management in this scenario? Just trying to demonstrate that the absolute numbers don't tell the whole story.

What everyone has to realize is that theme park attendance is secondary to the much more important hotel occupancy.

The entire NextGen initiative is not about increasing theme park attendance; it's about increasing onsite guest stays. I could write a long dissertation on the topic but, trust me, MyMagic+ is all about the onsite guest. When it comes to MyMagic+, corporate Disney couldn't give one lick about the offsite guest or theme park attendance.

The theme parks are expensive to operate. Theme park guests are whiny and want pricey new attractions. Theme park guests are just a royal pain.

On the other hand, the hotels and timeshares are money-making machines. Hotel patrons sleep quietly in their rooms, eat at Disney restaurants, and shop at Disney stores. Hotel guests are just peachy.

That's why Universal's move to add more hotels really worries Disney management.