Bad news from our friends at MiceAge...

[ABQ]

That's why Universal's move to add more hotels really worries Disney management.

Would that imply then...thinking well into the future, that eventually a tipping point will be reached at Universal as well where they'll be cashing in on their on site guests and then say, "Meh, no need to build this or that attraction, let's build another hotel instead." Essentially, following the same cash printing model that WDW designed. In that case, everyone gets hosed who is not on the board of director's at either TWDC or Comcast.

 

[willtravel]

They'll wake up when they actually see a decrease in actual visitors, spending on the resort level, and spending per guest. They've been teetering on that edge for the last couple of years – it won't take much for those numbers to turn quite negative.

Not only is that day coming (I wouldn't be surprised to see attendance and spending both down in 2015*), but it will be an especially rude awakening when they see NextGen hasn't done anything to stop the erosion.

*in 2015, WDW will be without any kind of new addition, Potter2 and Cabana Bay both will have opened at Uni, and DTD will be in the midst of a complete mess as it transitions to DisneySprings.

They'll just have more dance parties at the parks. That'll fix it...

 

[flynnibus]

Would that imply then...thinking well into the future, that eventually a tipping point will be reached at Universal as well where they'll be cashing in on their on site guests and then say, "Meh, no need to build this or that attraction, let's build another hotel instead." Essentially, following the same cash printing model that WDW designed. In that case, everyone gets hosed who is not on the board of director's at either TWDC or Comcast.

More like the think that says 'how do we get more money from each person?' Building another attraction does not collect its own dollars ... But converting someone to stay in your hotel or eat in your restaurant does...

When you are way under utilized getting bodies in the door is your quick path... But once your gate growth slows you have to turn to converting more dollars per head.

It's right where Disney was when after adding two more gates... Saturation and stagnation in terms of attendance growth

 

[tirian]

Would that imply then...thinking well into the future, that eventually a tipping point will be reached at Universal as well where they'll be cashing in on their on site guests and then say, "Meh, no need to build this or that attraction, let's build another hotel instead." Essentially, following the same cash printing model that WDW designed. In that case, everyone gets hosed who is not on the board of director's at either TWDC or Comcast.

No, because the Comcast CEO likes theme parks. Iger likes to purchase other people's creative content and milk it to death.

 

[SirLink]

What everyone has to realize is that theme park attendance is secondary to the much more important hotel occupancy.

The entire NextGen initiative is not about increasing theme park attendance; it's about increasing onsite guest stays. I could right a long dissertation on the topic but, trust me, MyMagic+ is all about the onsite guest. When it comes to MyMagic+, corporate Disney couldn't give one lick about the offsite guest or theme park attendance.

The theme parks are expensive to operate. Theme park guests are whiny and want pricey new attractions. Theme park guests are just a royal pain.

On the other hand, the hotels and timeshares are money-making machines. Hotel patrons sleep quietly in their rooms, eat at Disney restaurants, and shop at Disney stores. Hotel guests are just peachy.

That's why Universal's move to add more hotels really worries Disney management.

Its not so much the move to add more... its the fact that it a family suites, at a better rack rate than all of Disneys Value resorts, about £700 cheaper for Cabana Bay as compared to a family suite at Art of Animation. The value proposition is something they can't compete with.

I also disagree with the notion of wanting guests to stay on property ... hence why WDTC at least the international version always offers Villas that aren't on Disney property. They just care for the first "shake of the wallet" ... they don't care if your offsite,onsite,underground or overground. They want you do drop about $300 per day. They care so much for the offsite international guest ... hence why they are talking with attraction brokers to reassure all the same benefits for onsite guests are still yours to have even offsite.

 

[SirLink]

No, because the Comcast CEO likes theme parks. Iger likes to purchase other people's creative content and milk it to death.

So he is just like Walt Disney then?

 

[ParentsOf4]

Would that imply then...thinking well into the future, that eventually a tipping point will be reached at Universal as well where they'll be cashing in on their on site guests and then say, "Meh, no need to build this or that attraction, let's build another hotel instead." Essentially, following the same cash printing model that WDW designed. In that case, everyone gets hosed who is not on the board of director's at either TWDC or Comcast.

WDW has been a one-stop vacation destination for decades. Pushed by Sid Bass, Disney CEO Michael Eisner started investing heavily in hotels and timeshares at WDW. The theme parks built under Eisner were needed in order to fill WDW's current 34,000 rooms (including the Swan, Dolphin, and Downtown Disney hotels).

There's a reason WDW has added almost 11,000 rooms since DAK opened in 1998 without a major theme park expansion; hotels and timeshares are where the big profits are.

Universal had to have theme park successes just to be able to ante into the bigger hotel game that WDW has been playing for decades, that Disney tried to up the stakes on when it launched the NextGen initiative. WWOHP, Minion Mayhem, Transformers, and Diagon Alley finally have people thinking about Universal as an actual vacation destination. Now's the time for Universal to start adding hotels and cash in.

Long term, what happens at Universal and WDW will most likely be cyclical.

At some point, WDW will realize it needs to add at its theme parks in order to justify more hotels while Universal will start to coast and cash in on its investments in its theme parks. However, we are years away from that point.

To fans, attractions and attendance are sexy.

To business people, profits are sexy.

And the profits are in vacation hotels and timeshares.

 

[SirLink]

I honestly don't think it is an industry wide cyclical model. More like imaginative business people who like to keep a steady stream of income will invest in the "new hotness" to get people into the parks ... then when they are leaving say to themselves, "I'm staying on property next year". When Uni has the 10,000-15,000 rooms - will they still invest? Yes, of course they will just on not as quick a pace. Still quicker than it will take Disney to finish Disney Springs though.

The cyclical model can only be applied to WDW, and it was the goons at TDO that caused this problem with a little mad cap mayhem from WDI.

 

[Soarin' Over Pgh]

.... Can I be the oddball who would love it if disney lowered their hotel prices because then they would get more money from me?

As it stands I'm itching to get back to WDW (yep, despite its issues, I need that "happy glow" I got from being there, these past few months have been hell for me) and really, I can't afford what I want for what I can spend on room and tickets.

I want the Polynesian, I want a week, and I want park hoppers. What I can afford is three days, no park hoppers, and if I play my cards right, Polynesian.

If I could get a week for a lower price they would get my money in stuff that matters more than park tickets- food and merchandise, not to mention head-on-pillow at their hotel.

As it stands, I can afford a week at Universals hotels with park tickets.

Disney needs to be paying attention to this.

And Universal needs to get a bus system running from Orlando International to its hotels ASAP.

I honestly don't think it is an industry wide cyclical model. More like imaginative business people who like to keep a steady stream of income will invest in the "new hotness" to get people into the parks ... then when they are leaving say to themselves, "I'm staying on property next year". When Uni has the 10,000-15,000 rooms - will they still invest? Yes, of course they will just on not as quick a pace. Still quicker than it will take Disney to finish Disney Springs though.

The cyclical model can only be applied to WDW, and it was the goons at TDO that caused this problem with a little mad cap mayhem from WDI.

Speaking strictly in my own opinion, but seeing one company building like crazy and the other not is just amazing. I understand they're behind in the game but at what point does the hare not see the tortoise going past it?

 

[drew81]

No, they look for "influencers" and then try to hire professional social media consultants to get them under control

#truth #correct #theydon'twantthatoutthere #youjustbrokesocialmedia'sheart

 

[Ignohippo]

.... Can I be the oddball who would love it if disney lowered their hotel prices because then they would get more money from me?

As it stands I'm itching to get back to WDW (yep, despite its issues, I need that "happy glow" I got from being there, these past few months have been hell for me) and really, I can't afford what I want for what I can spend on room and tickets.

I want the Polynesian, I want a week, and I want park hoppers. What I can afford is three days, no park hoppers, and if I play my cards right, Polynesian.

If I could get a week for a lower price they would get my money in stuff that matters more than park tickets- food and merchandise, not to mention head-on-pillow at their hotel.

As it stands, I can afford a week at Universals hotels with park tickets.

Disney needs to be paying attention to this.

And Universal needs to get a bus system running from Orlando International to its hotels ASAP.



Speaking strictly in my own opinion, but seeing one company building like crazy and the other not is just amazing. I understand they're behind in the game but at what point does the hare not see the tortoise going past it?

Unfortunately, you'll never see a drop in prices unless the economy goes in the toilet again. Disney would rather see you at their hotels for 3 days at a higher rate than 5 at a lower rate.

That 30% more per night at the hotel is pure profit for them (same as a park ticket). Merchandise and food sales, while certainly profit makers, also take a product that has to be purchased and employees that have to sell it to you, stock it, prepare it, etc. It costs them absolutely nothing if they can get an additional 30% out of you for a hotel stay or park ticket.

The more they can charge you for rooms and tickets, the happier they are.

 

[Ignohippo]

I understand they're behind in the game but at what point does the hare not see the tortoise going past it?

They know. Unfortunately, my personal opinion is that MM+ has them strapped to the point where there's nothing they can do about it. They have no choice but to watch the tortoise inch by and just hope they're still in the race when the dust settles.

When you look at their expansion plans for the next few years, they should be coming out of MM+ hell right around the time Avatar is finished. They know they can then take Star Wars out of their back pocket and announce it then. They'll get their 2-3 years of attendance boost from Avatar and then will have SW ready to open right around the time when the Avatar hype dies down.

Honestly, I don't know if they really would have done things much differently even with the MM+ debacle.

 

[Ignohippo]

Would that imply then...thinking well into the future, that eventually a tipping point will be reached at Universal as well where they'll be cashing in on their on site guests and then say, "Meh, no need to build this or that attraction, let's build another hotel instead." Essentially, following the same cash printing model that WDW designed. In that case, everyone gets hosed who is not on the board of director's at either TWDC or Comcast.

More than likely, it will be because Universal simply doesn't have any more room to expand (even though they're close to buying a ton more land) and they simply don't have the properties to continue this kind of growth. I see them building one more gate (behind the convention center) and a few more hotels before that happens though - there's probably 10 more years of expansion left before Uni sits back and enjoys the spoils of their work.

At some point, any business needs to sit back and simply reap profit. No one could hold it against Uni or Disney for doing so.

The problem is though, that Disney has been doing it now for 25 years. They've dug such a hole that even a decent size expansion every 3-5 years sadly isn't enough.

 

[Magenta Panther]

No, because the Comcast CEO likes theme parks. Iger likes to purchase other people's creative content and milk it to death.

Well, after all, it's so much less risky than developing your OWN content. God I can't stand Iger. He is the absolute flip side to Walt. The dark side of the moon. An anti-creative. He's not so much a mogul as a merchandiser. I can't wait for him to leave!

 

[Magenta Panther]

So he is just like Walt Disney then?

Oh, please, not that again. Sigh. Okay, here's the difference: Iger buys stuff that's already been developed and marketed to the freaking hilt, because such stuff already has a track record and an assumed built-in audience, which eliminates risk and demands little creativity. Walt Disney bought raw content and created his own version of it, often enhancing the original and creating new audiences for it and in addition inspiring innovation and invention. The former involves big bucks. The latter involves artistry and risk. There! Class dismissed!

 

[Sped2424]

Well, after all, it's so much less risky than developing your OWN content. God I can't stand Iger. He is the absolute flip side to Walt. The dark side of the moon. An anti-creative. He's not so much a mogul as a merchandiser. I can't wait for him to leave!

when is he leaving btw? I heard his stay was extended, and does anyone know who is up for taking his place? (Sorry if these answers are obvious)

 

[MerlinTheGoat]

June 30th, 2016 is when Iger's reign is set to end apparently. I'd be relieved too if not for the likely chance that the board of directors is just going to appoint a successor just like Iger (Iger may have already chosen someone to replace him). With what we know from insiders here, Iger apparently has a somewhat disturbing amount of control over the board. As this is the case, Iger's leave of the company will unlikely yield any improvement unless his leadership starts to cause huge and obvious losses for them that they can't help but see. Otherwise the board will simply hold him in esteem and appoint a successor they think is just like him (assuming most of the board members even intend to stay with the company that long instead of bail before their poor decisions really start to become apparent). If Iger can continue to hobble along for his remaining years however, keeping them happy and ignorant with their short term bonus checks until he's gone in a few years, then we're just going to get stuck with yet another incompetent like Iger to continue things. I would hope they begin to see Iger for the incompetent fool that he is DURING his reign so they take the initiative next time they appoint a new leader (as opposed to having a long road ahead before anything is done).

I'm glad to hear Universal is getting the war drums ready. Perhaps that coupled with the mess of nextgen will ignite a fire under Disney's leaders and cause them to turn on Iger and rediscover how to conduct an entertainment business the proper way again.

 

[Captain Neo]

No, because the Comcast CEO likes theme parks. Iger likes to purchase other people's creative content and milk it to death.

Your statement doesn't really make sense. Comcast CEO loves theme parks ok...and bobby iger likes to purchase other peoples creative content...ok...what does one have to do with the other? Does Iger not like theme parks? If so, why has he been spending substantial amounts of money investing in DCA, Disneyland, announcing Avatar Land and teasing more growth for the domestic parks including Star Wars land? and what makes you think Comcast's CEO is not above purchasing other peoples creative content and milking it to death? You think Harry Potter, Marvel Comics, Jurassic Park, Dr.Seuss, Dudley Doo, Popeye, transformers, etc. are all original IPs created by Universal Studios????

Do you also think Walt Disney invented Bambi, Mary Poppins, Snow White, Cinderella, Alice in Wonderland, 20k under the sea, etc???

 

[biggy H]

They have no choice but to watch the tortoise inch by and just hope they're still in the race when the dust settles.

And as we all know, the tortoise won in the end.....

 

[WDWDad13]

And as we all know, the tortoise won in the end.....

....but this isn't a race....and both win as they both build more things bringing people to the Orlando area