Bad news from our friends at MiceAge...

ABQ

Well-Known Member
A fair and honest viewpoint. Thank you. Comments like this greatly contribute to the discussion at hand. I agree Disney is under no obligation and never has been to disclose anything at all until they see fit. I would have to speculate though, that the kibosh on most current projects is directly related over spending from MM+. They are gonna do and spend everything to make this work so I would rather have them get it over with now rather than later. Time will tell how if it works the way they hope it will. Seems we have a long way to go though. Lets hope this coming "third time full roll out" is the final one.
Frankly I'd be excited to here that someone with a brain just stepped up and said. "OK, for the time being everything is on hold till we stop all the hair brained madness, come up with a good plan to move forward with MM+, get that over with then move on to bigger and better things." Better to do that then try and bring in new things without a legitimate budget to support them. Finish dealing with the MM+ fallout, then allocate realistic funds that can support new endeavors.
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Universal's Potterland 2.0 opens in six months. And there's not a bulldozer in sight at DHS, or really anywhere at WDW. (Avatarland? When does that start construction again?)

They are currently all making parking stuctures at DTD. And Pandora is starting. Wasn't the last day of Camp Minnie Mickey/FotLK just a few days ago? Not a lot could be started until guests were not walking through it's intended areas!

Construction is happening. Just not where folks would like it to be happening, which is a valid point of discussion, but to say nothing is going on is where the argument falls down.
 

xdan0920

Think for yourselfer
They are currently all making parking stuctures at DTD. And Pandora is starting. Wasn't the last day of Camp Minnie Mickey/FotLK just a few days ago? Not a lot could be started until guests were not walking through it's intended areas!

Construction is happening. Just not where folks would like it to be happening, which is a valid point of discussion, but to say nothing is going on is where the argument falls down.

I think it IS happening where we want it. Just not at the speed we'd all prefer.
 

JWG

Well-Known Member
Yeah, Disney was playing off the success of the paver brick sales around the Magic Kingdom. They came up with this because it was less expensive for them to engrave and install. A flop and eyesore. I believe it can be legally condemned in 2019. I believe. Not moment too soon.

https://disneyworld.disney.go.com/attractions/epcot/leave-a-legacy/

It can be moved anytime, it only has to be visible "on property" somewhere per the individual user agreements. And is it 2019 or 2017? I thought it was a 10 year (not 20) guarantee, which would be 10 years from the last tile purchase in 2007. But, obvioulsy they won't pay to do something to it twice, so I'm sure it will be there until the end and beyond.
 

TP2000

Well-Known Member
They are currently all making parking stuctures at DTD. And Pandora is starting. Wasn't the last day of Camp Minnie Mickey/FotLK just a few days ago? Not a lot could be started until guests were not walking through it's intended areas!

Construction is happening. Just not where folks would like it to be happening, which is a valid point of discussion, but to say nothing is going on is where the argument falls down.

Got it. The remodeled mall of Downtown Disney doesn't really count as a theme park though. Neither does the next DVC shoebox building tacked on to a Deluxe Resort.

I think we're all more interested in theme parks. And at the four WDW theme parks, we still haven't seen a bulldozer. And for DHS specifically, not only are there no bulldozers, but there hasn't been a shred of concept art from WDI. Nothing but online rumors from "insiders" about what's been cancelled for DHS. In no particular order, that is: Pixar Place/Monsters Inc. Coaster, Cars Land, Star Wars Land, and my personal favorite - Removing The Hat.

So Camp Minnie Mickey/FOTLK just closed at DAK. If the bulldozers arrive next Monday (anyone wanna place a bet on that?), the new whatever it is will not open until the Spring of 2017. That's best case scenario now. Spring, 2017. Potterland 2.0 opens this June.

That tells me either TDO is unconcerned about Universal's impact on their business, or they are simply clueless at managing a property that relies on theme park rides to keep it going. As I tend to think we allow our ride envy to overestimate Uni's impact on WDW, I bet it's a subtle combination of those two things.
 
Last edited:

Disneyhead'71

Well-Known Member
Got it. The remodeled mall of Downtown Disney doesn't really count as a theme park though. Neither does the next DVC shoebox building tacked on to a Deluxe Resort.

I think we're all more interested in theme parks. And at the four WDW theme parks, we still haven't seen a bulldozer. And for DHS specifically, not only are there no bulldozers, but there hasn't been a shred of concept art from WDI. Nothing but online rumors from "insiders" about what's been cancelled for DHS. In no particular order, that is: Pixar Place/Monsters Inc. Coaster, Cars Land, Star Wars Land, and my personal favorite - Removing The Hat.

So Camp Minnie Mickey/FOTLK just closed at DAK. If the bulldozers arrive next Monday (anyone wanna place a bet on that?), the new whatever it is will not open until the Spring of 2017. That's best case scenario now. Spring, 2017. Potterland 2.0 opens this June.

That tells me either TDO is unconcerned about Universal's impact on their business, or they are simply clueless at managing a property that relies on theme park rides to keep it going.
Potter will sell more hotel rooms at WDW than Magic Bands will.
 

tissandtully

Well-Known Member
People just need to look at the disgusting situation River Country is in right now to see where TDO's priorities are, does it matter if it's a pond full of maggots? If they can't sell tickets to it, they don't care about maintaining, replacing, removing, building anything.
 

Sue_Vongello

Well-Known Member
Actually, to be fair, without speculation and insider info, we would have no idea about MM+ until it's roll-out went public, and we would have no idea on it's budget, or that it went "over". And varying groups of insiders have always had different numbers on how much and how long that acutally was. We rely solely on insiders and speculation for all of these things, as Disney isn't going to be coming out to the public and showing their initial budget and implementation timelines. We have no idea outside of insider info and speculation that MM+ is affecting future projects at all!
Since we've had such good info from our insiders (and I am not being sarcastic here), we know about things that make it to varying degrees of drawing boards well before they are in any way greenlit. Maybe Disney is doing nothing (aside from finishing an expansion of Fantasyland, fixing what they broke at DTD with a massive project, and building an entire new land at DAK), or maybe they are deciding to be a little tighter with their information, spreading false information, or a combination of all of it.
We know nothing for a fact until ground is broken. It's fun to speculate. It's fun to get insider info. But Disney is under no obligation to ensure that insiders get information out to the public before they are ready for it to be there for the most part.

This is a balanced response but I must make one semi-contrary point ... that there are enough facts and circumstantial evidence to support the assertion that A) MM+ is behind schedule, B) MM+ is overbudget, and C) spending has been reduced from other areas subsequently.

Here's the facts:

A) Staggs, Iger, and official Parks Blog indicated in January of 2013 that it will be rolled out in the next couple of months, at one point Iger said in an interview that Summer of 2013 was the plan ... it's now 2014 it's not rolled out completely. THE RESULT: Behind schedule

B) Due to the project being behind schedule (in addition to the technical issues it's faced) it's a cause and effect thing ... the project HAS to be over budget if it's this far behind schedule. We don't need an insider to tell us it's over budget, we can see it is.

C) Spending has been reduced from other areas? Perhaps this takes the biggest leap of faith but not really ... we know MM+ is behind schedule therefore we know it's over budget and we KNOW nothing major has been announced since Avatar in 2011 (outside of Disney Springs). I'm not saying anything about construction or rumors, let's just deal with real facts ... so for roughly three years they have announced NOTHING.

What can we logically infer from that? That money is tight, that money is being spent elsewhere and since we know MM+ is behind schedule thus over budget we can assume that's where it is.

So to me, you don't need any insider information. Just based on what we can see and what is real you can state fairly definitively that MM+ is behind schedule, over budget, and has affected improvements/additions in the theme parks. And until something major is announced (that isn't a shopping/dining district/hotel that turns a profit relative to it's construction costs) then it'll be hard to make a counter argument.

That being said I appreciate your balanced response, I just wanted to make this point not directed at you personally or as a contrary response but ... I guess just to make it. ;)
 

sshindel

The Epcot Manifesto
Got it. The remodeled mall of Downtown Disney doesn't really count as a theme park though. Neither does the next DVC shoebox building tacked on to a Deluxe Resort.

I think we're all more interested in theme parks. And at the four WDW theme parks, we still haven't seen a bulldozer. And for DHS specifically, not only are there no bulldozers, but there hasn't been a shred of concept art from WDI. Nothing but online rumors from "insiders" about what's been cancelled for DHS. In no particular order, that is: Pixar Place/Monsters Inc. Coaster, Cars Land, Star Wars Land, and my personal favorite - Removing The Hat.

So Camp Minnie Mickey/FOTLK just closed at DAK. If the bulldozers arrive next Monday (anyone wanna place a bet on that?), the new whatever it is will not open until the Spring of 2017. That's best case scenario now. Spring, 2017. Potterland 2.0 opens this June.

That tells me either TDO is unconcerned about Universal's impact on their business, or they are simply clueless at managing a property that relies on theme park rides to keep it going. As I tend to think we allow our ride envy to overestimate Uni's impact on WDW, I bet it's a subtle combination of those two things.
But why don't improvements to the WDW resort as a whole count? Improving DTD will have a positive impact on the guest experience for those that visit DTD. Additional DVC buildings will add capacity (and dollars) to support the parks well into any future expansions they may or may not choose. And let's not forget they are still finishing construction on a brand new ride in a brand new section of the park (ok, a mostly reclaimed section), and about to start construction on a new land.
The concern here is not new additions, but pace and taste. They are not building "fast enough for me" or "what I want them to build".
Disney is playing a long term game here. Uni could build 2 new parks in the next 5 years and still not come close to taking the throne from Disney. Uni needs to rush to try and capitalize on momentum. Disney does not. They can continue additions at their own pace because they are playing for the next 50+ years.
 

WDWDad13

Well-Known Member
But why don't improvements to the WDW resort as a whole count? Improving DTD will have a positive impact on the guest experience for those that visit DTD. Additional DVC buildings will add capacity (and dollars) to support the parks well into any future expansions they may or may not choose. And let's not forget they are still finishing construction on a brand new ride in a brand new section of the park (ok, a mostly reclaimed section), and about to start construction on a new land.
The concern here is not new additions, but pace and taste. They are not building "fast enough for me" or "what I want them to build".
Disney is playing a long term game here. Uni could build 2 new parks in the next 5 years and still not come close to taking the throne from Disney. Uni needs to rush to try and capitalize on momentum. Disney does not. They can continue additions at their own pace because they are playing for the next 50+ years.

VERY well said
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom