Backlash against Kathleen Kennedy and Star Wars in general

["El Gran Magnifico"]

Projections say it will be down 67% this weekend - WOW. They are not sure it will hit $200 Mil domestically during its release and will be under $500 mil globally.

It's sad that this isn't all about Solo. Its directly related to TLJ, Rian Johnson, and Kathleen Kennedy.

Can't wait to see the numbers for Rian Johnson's new trilogy. Disney may be wise to go "direct to video" on those. It will be that bad. Disney should encourage RJ and Kathleen Kennedy to move to Universal and take over the Jurassic franchise.

 

[wdisney9000]

With Solo still flopping in theaters, Scott Medelson of Forbes is now asking, "Are movies about white men the new box office poison"? What a joke. I have seen other movie critics citing Solo's bombing at theaters due to fans demanding more female leads. Smh. I suppose movies such as Infinity Wars, Black Panther, Jumanji, Deadpool, and a majority of others that have topped the box office for 2018 are complete flukes?

 

[FettFan]

3 of the 4 disney movies involved major story and/or directorial changes...

Guess which one didn’t?

I’m guessing Force Awakens....but even then the ending was changed with Daisy Ridley and Mark Hamill not finding out about it until the day of shooting.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

I’m guessing Force Awakens....but even then the ending was changed with Daisy Ridley and Mark Hamill not finding out about it until the day of shooting.

That’s incorrect actually...

Micheal Arndt was the original screenwriter/story architect that was brought on immediately after the Lucasfilm acquisition...

He was relieved in 2013 I believe and abrams has to “take over”. That was also when Kasdan was alledgedly bullied into helping with force awakens (don’t know where...I saw none of Kasdan in that script) to get his father/son movie made - solo. That will be officially declared a flop by Monday unless something major happens In theaters today and tomorrow.

That’s the same basic story as when he was ordered to rewrite empire to get raiders made (obviously it worked out well back then...not so much now)

The one that didn’t have major upheaval was last year’s train wreck...golden boy was given carte Blanche and MORE movies before it ever opened...which goes to show common sense isn’t that common.

Rogue one issues and solo were well documented.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

With Solo still flopping in theaters, Scott Medelson of Forbes is now asking, "Are movies about white men the new box office poison"? What a joke. I have seen other movie critics citing Solo's bombing at theaters due to fans demanding more female leads. Smh. I suppose movies such as Infinity Wars, Black Panther, Jumanji, Deadpool, and a majority of others that have topped the box office for 2018 are complete flukes?

Right...cause the traditional fan base - movies about white males, mostly - hasn’t purchased about 90% of the $100 billion or so license merch from Star Wars...

This article reeks of an inside job...bolstering the Kennedy agenda that is crashing much more than recent box office could indicate.

It’s not that they aren’t right to develop new characters and broaden the appeal...you just never needed to do it by altering the basic stories and crapping on the characters that made it the biggest movie phenomenon in the first place.

If this keeps up...in 10 years there won’t be a fan base.

She needs to go yesterday

 

[c-one]

An "agenda" requires some sort of planning and long-term execution.

This is someone making stuff up on the spot, after the movie was made, because it sounded like a good idea at the time.

In the end, it's a nontroversy (*trademark Red Letter Media*) that has no bearing on the movie or the rest of the franchise.

Were you all this worked up when Dumbledore was "outed" and then that whole idea was never followed up with in any HP book or movie?

That drove me nuts. I’m still hopeful, though, that the Fantasic Beasts series gives us the romance of Dumbledore and Grindelwald.

 

[FettFan]

Projections say it will be down 67% this weekend - WOW. They are not sure it will hit $200 Mil domestically during its release and will be under $500 mil globally.

It's sad that this isn't all about Solo. Its directly related to TLJ, Rian Johnson, and Kathleen Kennedy.

Can't wait to see the numbers for Rian Johnson's new trilogy. Disney may be wise to go "direct to video" on those. It will be that bad. Disney should encourage RJ and Kathleen Kennedy to move to Universal and take over the Jurassic franchise.

Given the backlash against both TLJ and Solo, I don’t think Rian Johnson’s supposed trilogy will ever come to pass.
But then again, Kennedy may be so dunder headed that she’ll just double down and lose more money....at which point Bob Iger will insist she take an “early retirement”.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Given the backlash against both TLJ and Solo, I don’t think Rian Johnson’s supposed trilogy will ever come to pass.
But then again, Kennedy may be so dunder headed that she’ll just double down and lose more money....at which point Bob Iger will insist she take an “early retirement”.

The backlash doomed Johnson - and it should have. You completely altered the character of Luke skywalker...you know? Bit character and all...kill everyone...and maintain the deadend Carrie fisher useless storyline...

You SHOULD be done.

I think the GOT guys were brought in to replace Johnson...timing was oh so “not coincidental”

 

[c-one]

With Solo still flopping in theaters, Scott Medelson of Forbes is now asking, "Are movies about white men the new box office poison"? What a joke. I have seen other movie critics citing Solo's bombing at theaters due to fans demanding more female leads. Smh. I suppose movies such as Infinity Wars, Black Panther, Jumanji, Deadpool, and a majority of others that have topped the box office for 2018 are complete flukes?

Is Black Panther a movie about white men?

I haven’t read the article in question but that question does frame the Solo problem incorrectly. I think the “white man” thing is shorthand for “white man coasting on privilege because he is actually boring and mediocre and not worthy of this story”. Harrison Ford’s Han Solo wasn’t that, but this new guy playing Young Han definitely is.

If we’re mad about changing a character, I’m way more mad about changing Han Solo to some boring dork than I am about a supposed to change to Lando that’s kind of ultimately immaterial.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Given the backlash against both TLJ and Solo, I don’t think Rian Johnson’s supposed trilogy will ever come to pass.
But then again, Kennedy may be so dunder headed that she’ll just double down and lose more money....at which point Bob Iger will insist she take an “early retirement”.

Completely agree...that’s a flop...a Star Wars FLOP.

Unbelievable...the entire Lucasfilm film department should be looked at.

And it’s NOT about solo. It’s a passable film Star Wars fans can watch. But many haven’t watched.

This is EXACLTY what we - the common sense naysayers - said in December and were shouted down. Here...we...are...right where - as Star Wars fans - we never wanted to be.

Awful comparisons to other franchises, patronization, and comparisons to empire at the box office that were just so stupid.

There was always a different set of rules for Star Wars. Phantom movie and attack of the Lucas were two of the truly awful popcorn movies ever made...they neither flopped, nor killed the franchise to this level. The world shouldn’t have changed THAT much.

You have to trust your eyes...or know what they are seeing. That hasn’t happened with these Disney movies...at the studio and by a vocal set of defenders.

I defended the purchase...I thought they’d do a great job. But here we are...they can’t get anyone to watch...and JJ Reboot is in control of a busted serial.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Is Black Panther a movie about white men?

I haven’t read the article in question but that question does frame the Solo problem incorrectly. I think the “white man” thing is shorthand for “white man coasting on privilege because he is actually boring and mediocre and not worthy of this story”. Harrison Ford’s Han Solo wasn’t that, but this new guy playing Young Han definitely is.

If we’re mad about changing a character, I’m way more mad about changing Han Solo to some boring dork than I am about a supposed to change to Lando that’s kind of ultimately immaterial.

No it is not...

But that movie and it’s characters are tied into a franchise very much featuring white men as heroes.

Maybe that’s how you do it? Representative...not telling you what you loved for 40 years is wrong.

Doesn’t have to be an either or

 

[wdisney9000]

Is Black Panther a movie about white men?

I haven’t read the article in question but that question does frame the Solo problem incorrectly. I think the “white man” thing is shorthand for “white man coasting on privilege because he is actually boring and mediocre and not worthy of this story”. Harrison Ford’s Han Solo wasn’t that, but this new guy playing Young Han definitely is.

If we’re mad about changing a character, I’m way more mad about changing Han Solo to some boring dork than I am about a supposed to change to Lando that’s kind of ultimately immaterial.

I was using Black Panther as a reference of certain critics claiming more female lead characters are needed for box office hits, and the others are examples of "white men" lead roles that have smashed the box office as well.

Not sure how you got "white man coasting on privilege" as shorthand for "white men are box office poison"? Unless I misunderstood you.

 

[c-one]

I was using Black Panther as a reference of certain critics claiming more female lead characters are needed for box office hits, and the others are examples of "white men" lead roles that have smashed the box office as well.

Not sure how you got "white man coasting on privilege" as shorthand for "white men are box office poison"? Unless I misunderstood you.

What I meant was that a greater spectrum of representation in our movie leads doesn’t mean the white male ones are poison UNLESS they’re dull and mediocre. Which the new Han Solo is.

 

[LSLS]

3 of the 4 disney movies involved major story and/or directorial changes...

Guess which one didn’t?

Which gets to my question, do they have changes like this in movies a lot? If not, I would say that's a large reason for a change

 

[fractal]

Problems with the "new" trilogy.

1) Instead of the culmination of this incredible saga we've been following since 1977, it has become a "soft" remake of the original trilogy (4,5&6) just with new characters and "updated" to reflect "today's world".

2) Overt underlying use of various themes to push a modern liberal agenda.

3) Destruction of character development arcs that made 4,5 & 6 so compelling. Luke followed the classic hero's path from common man to hero; Han from greedy selfish scoundrel to selfless, caring leader of a cause bigger than him. We like seeing our characters change for the better - we see a bit of ourselves in those characters. The new trilogy crapped on this. We find Han back being a greedy, selfish, scoundrel and Luke is now worse off than the start of New Hope! Then they act (including Leia) in ways that are not in synch with the characters that were fully developed in Episode 6! I found this offensive and lazy.

4) Inconsistent story telling from one Episode to the next - instead of an overall story to be told we have; "JJ you do a remake of New Hope. Rian you have Empire Strike Back and Colin (until he was fired) you do Return of the Jedi." I mean really; ? Episodes 1 through 6 at least made sense going from one to another. It's like Johnson didn't even watch TFA!

5) Nothing really new and exciting. At least the prequels introduced us to stimulating new worlds and themes. Again - just a soft remake. If they were going to remake 4,5 & 6 then just call it that and do it.

6) Really bad story-telling overall. So much stupidity and non-sensical stuff in TLJ.

oh I could go on but I'm just going to get more upset and frustrated.

 

[spacemt354]

Which gets to my question, do they have changes like this in movies a lot? If not, I would say that's a large reason for a change

It's pretty uncommon because of the amount of prep work that goes in to a film before even the cameras start to roll. A person in Kennedy's shoes should be on top of things and be able to realize early on in the storyboard phase if a film is going in the direction she wants or thinks is best. Many times that's before even the directors are hired.

For Lord and Miller to be fired over creative differences after they shot most of the film, Colin Trevorrow to be fired almost 2 years after being signed on for 'creative differences', and Rogue One almost being a disaster before re-shoots over 'creative differences'... whether you like the movies or not, this is not a good track record, and a sign she isn't good at her #1 job, which is picking the right directors and making sure everyone is on the same page.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

What I meant was that a greater spectrum of representation in our movie leads doesn’t mean the white male ones are poison UNLESS they’re dull and mediocre. Which the new Han Solo is.

You are making an awfully big leap
There...so it has to be Shawshank if it was white hetero males in the lead now??

...or maybe we are talking about Star Wars...which grew in legend in 16 years between movies...when we were told no more...as new technology/distractions boomed.

All these movies have to be is “C” average...prequels and Disney movies...you got a couple of above average like rogue one or the reboot (not my thing...I get it) and the rest just a half smile on people coming out of the theater. From
1999-2018...they haven’t pulled the minimum off...simple as that.

I get why Lone Ranger bombed...no explanation needed. This goes much deeper.

And not all diversity interests are equal. If you’re saying women - you got a point...51% of the population...but the other demos are 5/10% if you’re lucky. That isn’t enough to keep them all away.

Nobody really wanted solo...to be honest...it was unnecessary. But how is this not making $750???

...my theory is the core fanbase is ALOT more mad than Disney is admitting...and we got a problem, Houston

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

It's pretty uncommon because of the amount of prep work that goes in to a film before even the cameras start to roll. A person in Kennedy's shoes should be on top of things and be able to realize early on in the storyboard phase if a film is going in the direction she wants or thinks is best. Many times that's before even the directors are hired.

For Lord and Miller to be fired over creative differences after they shot most of the film, Colin Trevorrow to be fired almost 2 years after being signed on for 'creative differences', and Rogue One almost being a disaster before re-shoots over 'creative differences'... whether you like the movies or not, this is not a good track record, and a sign she isn't good at her #1 job, which is picking the right directors and making sure everyone is on the same page.

...if you believe treverrow was fired...I really don’t.

 

[Sirwalterraleigh]

Problems with the "new" trilogy.

1) Instead of the culmination of this incredible saga we've been following since 1977, it has become a "soft" remake of the original trilogy (4,5&6) just with new characters and "updated" to reflect "today's world".

2) Overt underlying use of various themes to push a modern liberal agenda.

3) Destruction of character development arcs that made 4,5 & 6 so compelling. Luke followed the classic hero's path from common man to hero; Han from greedy selfish scoundrel to selfless, caring leader of a cause bigger than him. We like seeing our characters change for the better - we see a bit of ourselves in those characters. The new trilogy crapped on this. We find Han back being a greedy, selfish, scoundrel and Luke is now worse off than the start of New Hope! Then they act (including Leia) in ways that are not in synch with the characters that were fully developed in Episode 6! I found this offensive and lazy.

4) Inconsistent story telling from one Episode to the next - instead of an overall story to be told we have; "JJ you do a remake of New Hope. Rian you have Empire Strike Back and Colin (until he was fired) you do Return of the Jedi." I mean really; ***? Episodes 1 through 6 at least made sense going from one to another. It's like Johnson didn't even watch TFA!

5) Nothing really new and exciting. At least the prequels introduced us to stimulating new worlds and themes. Again - just a soft remake. If they were going to remake 4,5 & 6 then just call it that and do it.

6) Really bad story-telling overall. So much stupidity and non-sensical stuff in TLJ.

oh I could go on but I'm just going to get more upset and frustrated.

I agree with everything except your Fox News Esque blip...

I don’t think this is about American media/politics...I think it’s more trying to do a “global appeal”...which never was gonna happen they way it has for marvel.

Disney doesn’t understand who liked Star Wars and why it endured...it made it through Mad, greedy George for chrissakes!!!

It was an”nato” audience...and that’s ok. It slays in the nato countries...North America, Western Europe, and the US friendly Far East...so you limit your audience to only 3 billion or so? Oh darn...

Disney doesn’t get it...and Kennedy must go because of it. That’s the breaks.

 

[spacemt354]

I was someone who defended The Last Jedi when it came out -- I still think it's a good film, but it's pretty clear that it has divided the fanbase. And to be honest, similar to The Force Awakens, it really doesn't hold up as well to me on repeat viewings, and I think I've discovered why (to me at least)

Poor character development.

This started with TFA - you advertised the original trio of Luke, Han, and Leia are returning and a passing of the torch so to speak to the new generation, and...you kill Han, have Han and Leia meet for 5 mins, have Leia and Luke never actually meet, have Han and Luke never actually meet, and now Han and Luke are dead, and Carrie Fisher is gone. That reunion can never happen.

Instead too much was crammed into TFA - if Rey, Finn, and Poe are the new 'Luke Han and Leia' -- then why have they never been together until the final moments of TLJ? The trilogy is 2/3 over and the main characters barely even know each other...and we barely even know them because the films have to bounce around to Hux, to Rose, to Snoke, etc.

The only character who has been well developed, imo, is Kylo Ren...and perhaps that is why he's well-received. It's hard for Rey to have a character arc when she's instantly good instead of the hero's journey of learning.

While I liked the open -endedness of TLJ's ending, really that could have just been a coincidence of executives having no clue where they are going with this franchise, which is frightening because you are pumping out films every year...with no overarching goal.

Solo was boring to me...and I've never been bored in a Star Wars movie before. It wasn't as bad as I thought it would be...it was just meh...so if the future films are just going to be pumped out like Solo has been, and the episodic films have not been developed, then perhaps Disney should slow it down...and regroup before they turn the greatest film franchise ever into the DCEU.