Avengers Campus - Reactions / Reviews

[DavidDL]

Watching a couple ride-thrus of Spider-Man, it's clear to me that certain seats are better at selling the illusion of warehouse space between scenes. Unfortunately, some seats make it painfully obvious how thin the transition walls between screens are and really break the illusion of inferred space that some scenes that you just experienced tried to sell, which is a shame.

This attraction also just makes me question how the Collector's "fortress" works, even more. Is the scene on the SLING-R supposed to be his off-site storage inside Avengers Campus a la Public Storage? Or are we meant to believe that we've somehow made our way underground directly up against the fortress itself? In either case, why would the Avengers allow him any sort of storage space considering he's holding the Guardians captive against their will? Or, why/how does the SLING-R track run up against an underground portion of the fortress (which, 1) is not meant to be there to begin with and 2) conveniently has a door that opens up to the outside) without being addressed by W.E.B/the Avengers? I dunno, man. Broken illusions for me everywhere I look, so far.

 

[el_super]

View attachment 562371

Ahhh Good Luck!

Or are we meant to believe that we've somehow made our way underground directly up against the fortress itself?

LOL yes. There is a piece of backstory that explains this: Howard Stark was a genius who built "utilidors" running underground between the various buildings of his Auto Factory. That's what you're traveling through on Web Slingers. Since the Collectors Fortress landed on the campus, it doesn't seem all that outrageous to think that it landed on top one of those tunnels.

And in their defense here, they made the decision to throw out a cohesive timeline, so there's no reason to believe that any of the Avengers know about the Guardians of the Galaxy as it relates to Mission Breakout.

 

[DavidDL]

LOL yes. There is a piece of backstory that explains this: Howard Stark was a genius who built "utilidors" running underground between the various buildings of his Auto Factory. That's what you're traveling through on Web Slingers. Since the Collectors Fortress landed on the campus, it doesn't seem all that outrageous to think that it landed on top one of those tunnels.

And in their defense here, they made the decision to throw out a cohesive timeline, so there's no reason to believe that any of the Avengers know about the Guardians of the Galaxy as it relates to Mission Breakout.

Ahh okay. So we're effectively running through a damaged utilidor that the fortress buried itself into and will likely need to be totally replaced when the Collector decides to warp on outta there. As someone who asks too many questions, I could buy into that. -and upon closer inspection of what little practical sets the ride features, it does look like we're made to infer that the utilidor is damaged because your vehicle is actually entering the a piece of the fortress itself at that time, which has, I guess buried itself underground.

That said, my issues with the illusions of warehouse/fortress depth being broken still bothers me. It depends where you sit, I think, though. In this example, the illusion shatters:

1) We travel through the utilidors and into the side of the fortress, as you have explained to me. I'm buying it and it makes sense. The door opens and we're treated to a view of a vast interior, as we come to expect from inside the fortress itself. However, this segment ends and then..

2) We 'round the corner. This particular vehicles view at this moment shows the transition point between the fortress (in red) and the quinjet launch platform (in blue). At this point, we as Guests see how little space exists between these two scenes and suddenly, the former scene makes much less sense. As a bonus..

3) the moment we "pop up" onto the quinjet runaway just a few feet away from where we were, the Collector's fortress is suddenly wayyyyy off in the distance.

What's clear here, is that Disney intends you to simply buy the "rounding the corner" transition as some sort of massive movement across the entirety of the campus. Which it isn't and which, I don't. I realize I may just be thinking too hard but I think little details such as these matter.

 

[el_super]

What's clear here, is that Disney intends you to simply buy the "rounding the corner" transition as some sort of massive movement across the entirety of the campus. Which it isn't and which, I don't. I realize I may just be thinking too hard but I think little details such as these matter.

A plot hole? Yes. A disasterous one? Probably not. Not anymore disasterous than a Caribbean town keeping their arsenal so far away from the fort defending them.

 

[DavidDL]

A plot hole? Yes. A disasterous one? Probably not. Not anymore disasterous than a Caribbean town keeping their arsenal so far away from the fort defending them.

Hey, one arsenal that we know of.

I don't think the two are totally comparable but I understand the thought process behind, "try not to think too hard about it." or "the broad brush strokes of the story remain the same, regardless." It is just my viewpoint, after all. Other folks probably won't notice or care. But I will and it sadly will affect my ability to enjoy the attraction to it's fullest, unless perhaps, the transitions are better hidden in-person. Perhaps those filming the ride have a perspective that the normal Guest sightline doesn't see with the ride vehicle surrounding them. In any case, I'm keeping my expectations in check after what I've seen. There are certainly seats on other attractions that improve ride experiences (like on Soarin') but it would be a shame if I'd have to ask for them each time in order to properly enjoy myself.

 

[el_super]

Perhaps those filming the ride have a perspective that the normal Guest sightline doesn't see with the ride vehicle surrounding them. In any case, I'm keeping my expectations in check after what I've seen.

I got a chance to ride it, and honestly I was too busy arguing with my friends over highest score during the transitions to notice.

 

[DavidDL]

I got a chance to ride it, and honestly I was too busy arguing with my friends over highest score during the transitions to notice.

Well hey, more power to you! I'm happy you guys had a good time. At the end of the day, that's the mission of any attraction, after all.

 

[MisterPenguin]

A plot hole? Yes. A disasterous one? Probably not. Not anymore disasterous than a Caribbean town keeping their arsenal so far away from the fort defending them.

They're using the same tech that takes us to all the world's major tropical rivers in 15 minutes.

 

[DavidDL]

They're using the same tech that takes us to all the world's major tropical rivers in 15 minutes.

I understand where you are coming from with this statement, really I do. Even I laughed at myself for a bit. But in fairness, the tech and storytelling techniques of Jungle Cruise opened over 60 years ago. Spider-Man was due to open in 2020. I don't feel the comparison is a fair one, especially since Jungle Cruise was built and opened before any of us had any sort of concept of what a theme park could even be, much less what to expect from the stories and details they are capable of conveying.

 

[MisterPenguin]

I understand where you are coming from with this statement, really I do. Even I laughed at myself for a bit. But in fairness, the tech and storytelling techniques of Jungle Cruise opened over 60 years ago. Spider-Man was due to open in 2020. I don't feel the comparison is a fair one, especially since Jungle Cruise was built and opened before any of us had any sort of concept of what a theme park could even be, much less what to expect from the stories and details they are capable of conveying.

For something more recent, consider the ground that Soarin' covers... in a glider... around the world.

 

[DavidDL]

For something more recent, consider the ground that Soarin' covers... in a glider... around the world.

Fair enough, I suppose. Even though I vastly prefer the "over California" version, the sudden cuts to new scenes were something I wish had been better assessed. "Over the World" sort of tried to tackle this with it's transitions but I think popping back up into the clouds and then back down would have made more "sense" as to give the believability of time passage. I dunno, for me, seeing all the details of the Collector's warehouse then 'rounding the corner only to realize that there was no warehouse is a greater intrusion than other park offerings. Your mileage will obviously vary.

 

[UNCgolf]

For something more recent, consider the ground that Soarin' covers... in a glider... around the world.

To be fair, they're different concepts. WEB Slingers is supposed to be taking place in the same physical space as the actual Avengers Campus; Soarin' isn't really going for that.

It doesn't really bother me (the whole ride looks bad to me, but I also think TSMM is terrible so a big part of it is just the overall concept), but I understand where he's coming from.

 

[DanielBB8]

I don't get the need for a better transition. When the warehouse/garage door closes, that's the transition. The tunnel is largely the same with a few physical scenes. The tunnels are sufficient to change the mood. You actually shouldn't know how far the ride vehicles travel. That's part of the illusion in a ride.

 

[DavidDL]

To be fair, they're different concepts. WEB Slingers is supposed to be taking place in the same physical space as the actual Avengers Campus; Soarin' isn't really going for that.

It doesn't really bother me (the whole ride looks bad to me, but I also think TSMM is terrible so a big part of it is just the overall concept), but I understand where he's coming from.

I think it's all about the rules Disney chooses to define their attractions by, in advance. Like you said, Soarin', doesn't really abide by much. It is what it is.

As a detailed oriented individual (most of my jobs have been QA related), I will nitpick little stuff like this when we are supposed to be sold something. For example, when Star Tours 2.0 was opened, the Disney Cast Member Hub interview with those who designed the attraction said that it was supposed to be an "Episode 3.5" attraction and take place between the two. However, if you get certain ride combinations, that claim suddenly falls apart and now, upsets my enjoyment of what this experience is "supposed to be". If Disney had just come out the gate and said something like "yeah this doesn't take place at any particular point in time and it's just supposed to be mindless fun with characters and locales you're familiar with", then suddenly, I no longer care.

However, they then doubled own on the in-universe events of Star Tours by having one of the Starspeeders pass you on Smuggler's Run. You either have no strings attached with your attraction or you go the lore/in-universe detail route. If you choose the latter, you really need to make sure that you get all the little things right or you'll be picked apart by losers like me with too much time on their hands to think about this stuff.

 

[Professortango1]

I don't get the need for a better transition. When the warehouse/garage door closes, that's the transition. The tunnel is largely the same with a few physical scenes. The tunnels are sufficient to change the mood. You actually shouldn't know how far the ride vehicles travel. That's part of the illusion in a ride.

Yeah, the tunnels work for fine. I mean, I could get nitpicking and be like "why does the dropped in museum have tunnel markings and perfectly line up?" but its a quick ride and it doesn't matter. I do wish, however, that the transition hallways differed more. They all seem to be a sparking fuse box. Show me a progression, a spiderbot AA, some swinging wires or falling pipe or something. Same with the ending, I'd love to see some movement.

 

[DavidDL]

The interesting thing is, the ability to trick Guests into buying the illusions of these utilidors is totally possible because the cars are able to spin in whatever direction Disney wants them to, sort of like the omnimover doombuggies. Depending on where you're at when it spins, you may miss the thin wall transition entirely and be facing away from them, towards what little practical set pieces there are, and buy into it more easily.

The issue, is that the vehicles have back to back loading, which means that while one side is facing one way for a better view, the other side will get the short end of the stick for at least a few brief intervals. The only conceivable way I could imagine fixing this would have been one way loading, which would cut ride capacity by 50% and I could see why that would be an absolute non-starter for Imagineering.

Though maybe, if they had more cleverly designed the track or utilized the space a little differently, they would have been able to get two tracks worth of cars running parallel to each other at slightly different dispatch intervals so to keep the same capacity and spin each vehicle to a better transition view when needed. It was likely never considered because most people won't question it, I guess.

But man, imagine if Mansion doombuggies sat back to back and took turns spinning to show the show scenes. One group of Guests would likely get the intended shot of a spooky hand moving over the grandfather clock, while the others would instead get a good look at mechanism that creates the effect.

 

[mickEblu]

The interesting thing is, the ability to trick Guests into buying the illusions of these utilidors is totally possible because the cars are able to spin in whatever direction Disney wants them to, sort of like the omnimover doombuggies. Depending on where you're at when it spins, you may miss the thin wall transition entirely and be facing away from them, towards what little practical set pieces there are, and buy into it more easily.

The issue, is that the vehicles have back to back loading, which means that while one side is facing one way for a better view, the other side will get the short end of the stick for at least a few brief intervals. The only conceivable way I could imagine fixing this would have been one way loading, which would cut ride capacity by 50% and I could see why that would be an absolute non-starter for Imagineering.

Though maybe, if they had more cleverly designed the track or utilized the space a little differently, they would have been able to get two tracks worth of cars running parallel to each other at slightly different dispatch intervals so to keep the same capacity and spin each vehicle to a better transition view when needed. It was likely never considered because most people won't question it, I guess.

But man, imagine if Mansion doombuggies sat back to back and took turns spinning to show the show scenes. One group of Guests would likely get the intended shot of a spooky hand moving over the grandfather clock, while the others would instead get a good look at mechanism that creates the effect.

That’s why I keep saying imagineering peaked in the 60s. Yes the degree of difficulty is higher with some of the stuff they are attempting now (although you can argue the tech available now makes it a wash) but give me a better example of a full on beginning to end experience then POTC or Mansion. Newer attractions may have one or two moments that are more impressive than anything you can find in POTC or some incredible WOW moment but I can’t think of anything that is more impressive from start to finish.

With that said not every ride can be POTC and Mansion. They need to try different stuff and the degree of difficulty in executing ROTR convincingly is much higher than POTC or Mansion. Also we need varied experiences in the parks. The Mad Tea Party has its place just as POTC does. The problem is that it’s just been so long since they built anything on that level. I’d say Splash was really the last one that’s even close.

 

[DavidDL]

Here's a stupid simple mock-up of what I mean:

Above is a blueprint for the Spider-Man attraction. Instead of having one track with back to back seating in one car, instead, have two tracks (pictured here in red and pink) with smaller cars designed to run alongside each other. Then, when these cars come to the crucial transition points, turn them AWAY from the immersion breaking thin area between computer screens (direction pictured in yellow), then spin them back the way they need to be to resume playing the game.

As it stands with the one track with spinning cars, some will get this intended view while others will end up with the short end of the stick. In order to make this new idea work fully, though, there would need to be a dispatch interval difference between the two tracks, otherwise during scene transitions, the back car would simply just have a view of the cars in front of them and not see much at all. It's a lil' bit more work and slightly trickier to design but I think the payoff would have been worth it, even if it's such a small thing to identify and complain about. Disney's always been about the little things.

 

[MisterPenguin]

The interesting thing is, the ability to trick Guests into buying the illusions of these utilidors is totally possible because the cars are able to spin in whatever direction Disney wants them to, sort of like the omnimover doombuggies.

Wasn't there some art showing them flying?

After all, anything Stark makes can also fly.

 

[Nland316]

Reiterating the same sentiment others have shared on this board. Not the best thing, but not the worst. Marvel definitely deserved more ambition.

I remember being against some early rumors (pre 2012?) of Marvel taking over Tomorrowland with a Stark Expo theme. Now I kinda wish that did come to fruition over this.

They also could have easily taken over Hollywoodland instead of Bugs Land too. Maybe switch out the emphasis of the Hollywood aspect and make it more general metropolis LA? It could have given weight to some American Waterfront vibes from TDS.

Definitely some missed opportunities, but it’s such a small space with relatively “simple” rides that can be overlaid if something larger scale comes into play for Marvel’s theme park presence in the far future. So not really too up in arms over it.