AVATAR land - the specifics

danlb_2000

Premium Member
Keep in mind that a higher framerate makes for a better 3D viewing experience.

Many people complain about headaches, eye fatique, and a dim picture when viewing 3D movies. (Frankly, most 3D films make me feel like I'm watching a movie while suffering from a concussion.) A higher framerate helps to resolve those problems (as does jacking up the lamp level on the projector) and makes for a crisper overall picture.

Trust me, if you saw "Avatar" as projected in the theater and separately at 60fps (and properly lit) the difference would be stark.

That said, I agree that the masses won't be thronging to the theater shouting "60 FRAMES PER SECOND, MY LIFE WILL BE COMPLETE, I HAVE ACHIEVED TOTAL CONCIOUSNESS!" But odds are pretty good enough folks will come out to see Cameron's latest blockbuster that, if it's half way decent, it will make a steaming hot pile of lucre.

But you know the studios won't just promote this as "60 frames a second", they will promote it as the next great thing in theater technology. If they hype it enought they will get throngs of people to buy into the hype for at least a short period of time.
 

Master Yoda

Pro Star Wars geek.
Premium Member
Thing is, film has been going just fine at 24 fps for the better part of a century.

Others have noted that it will become a "bigger deal", but the only place it really has any difference is in video games, as the posts attest.

The initial bringing up of 60FPS was in response to my statement that the 3-D hook wouldn't be nearly as grabby this time, but I think just about everyone would agree that 3-D itself brought more people into the theater to experience the curiosity than will turn out in droves just to see something for the sake of it being 60fps.
It also survived without sound, color, stereo sound, surround sound, digital projection, 70 mm film, digital film, 3D, etc, etc.
 

Bairstow

Well-Known Member
Not sure if it's going to bring filmgoers to the cinemas in droves, but better framerates will eventually be common in filmmaking because it's a change that optimizes the artform for human perception.

Just like with television formats shifting over the last decade to a more field-of-vision friendly 16x9 format from 4x3.
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
It also survived without sound, color, stereo sound, surround sound, digital projection, 70 mm film, digital film, 3D, etc, etc.

I was replying to the statement that frame rates below 30 cause nasuea, etc. and is somehow herky-jerky - as I said, it's been 24fps for quite some time and somehow the majority of us have survived. Comparing fps on a video game vs. film is a completely different beast.

As to the film experience, I could go on for quite a few pages about it, but I'll try to summarize - many of those things you listed are a far cry from 60fps. Some, like 3-D, have also been pushed for business reasons more than to benefit the film viewer. Digital projection, for example - few people can tell the difference (and, personally, I go to the movies to see film not video, but I digress), it's mostly so studios don't have to keep printing, distributing, and maintaining actual physical film. 3-D was because they saw how much Pixar films were making in IMAX and that they could charge a tax. 70MM is neat but considered too costly for most uses and simply isn't appropriate for most films.

Sound and color were obvious technical developments that were huge to the public - but 60 FPS? I mean, rarely do people come out of films saying, "Wow, that just wasn't fluid enough..."

We are getting way off topic now, but I guess we can come back to this when 60FPS actually becomes a reality for mainstream film - and that anyone but computer gamers actually know what it is.
 

IlikeDW

Active Member
I was replying to the statement that frame rates below 30 cause nasuea, etc. and is somehow herky-jerky - as I said, it's been 24fps for quite some time and somehow the majority of us have survived. Comparing fps on a video game vs. film is a completely different beast.

As to the film experience, I could go on for quite a few pages about it, but I'll try to summarize - many of those things you listed are a far cry from 60fps. Some, like 3-D, have also been pushed for business reasons more than to benefit the film viewer. Digital projection, for example - few people can tell the difference (and, personally, I go to the movies to see film not video, but I digress), it's mostly so studios don't have to keep printing, distributing, and maintaining actual physical film. 3-D was because they saw how much Pixar films were making in IMAX and that they could charge a tax. 70MM is neat but considered too costly for most uses and simply isn't appropriate for most films.

Sound and color were obvious technical developments that were huge to the public - but 60 FPS? I mean, rarely do people come out of films saying, "Wow, that just wasn't fluid enough..."

We are getting way off topic now, but I guess we can come back to this when 60FPS actually becomes a reality for mainstream film - and that anyone but computer gamers actually know what it is.

Interesting read
Excerpt from Peter Jackson about filming The Hobbit @ 48FPS:
Were you disappointed at the internet reaction to the 48 frames per second footage?
Yeah, I mean, disappointed, I guess, is one way. I wasn't surprised in the sense that my experience with 48 frames ‑‑ and I've seen hours and hours and hours of it, obviously ‑‑ is that it's something that becomes a real joy to watch, but it takes you a while.

Why is that?
Yeah, I mean, it's like watching a movie where the flicker and the strobing and the motion blur what we've been used to seeing all of our lives -- I mean, all our lives in the cinema -- suddenly that just disappears. It goes. And you've got this incredibly vivid, realistic looking image. And you've got sharpness because there's no motion blur, so everything is much sharper. And plus we're shooting with cameras that are 5K cameras, so they're super sharp.

So this is basically something that you're really excited about, and then when it screened and everybody sounded negative, you were disappointed?
Yeah, but literally, you sit there and you think, Wow, this is different. The first few minutes, you think, Wow, this is really different. It's cool, but it's different. And at the end of two hours, or two and a half hours, you think, That was cool. It was a great way to watch the movie. Now, what I learned from the CinemaCon experience is don't run a seven or eight or ten minute reel where the total focus is going to be on the 48 frames. I mean, that was a disappointing thing at CinemaCon. Forty-eight frames, I'm not worried about, because when this movie comes out and people see it at 48 frames, they're actually going to get the experience that I've had for the last 18 months. I'm a film guy, I've grown up all my life going to the movies, and I think 48 frames is great. So I've got to believe I'm not stupid. I have to believe it.

I've got to say, selfishly, I was really hoping to see it here.
I know. But Hall H, a big convention center, that's not the way to judge it. It's an important thing to judge, because the industry may or may not want to adopt high frame rates, and I think it has to be taken very seriously. And I think the only logical thing to do is to let people see a feature-length narrative film at 48 frames. I've got no doubt whatsoever that people are going to enjoy it. But the disappointing thing with CinemaCon is that no one talked about the footage. The first time we ever screened "The Hobbit," all the stories were the 48 frames stories. And then the negative guys, the guys that say this doesn't look like film -- the guys who are in love with the technology of 1927 -- are sort of sitting there saying, "But it doesn't look like cinema. This is not what we're used to seeing in the films." And those stories rush around the world and no one talked about the footage. So, I'm not going to go to Comic-Con with 12 minutes of footage and have the same reaction. I don't want people to write about 48 frames. Forty-eight frames can be written about in December. When people can actually watch a full length narrative film, everyone can go to town on 48 frames, because that's the form that you've got to see it in. And if you hate it, you hate it. And if you like it, you like it. I think most people will [like it].

Is there a limit? Can you go up to 96?
No, I don't think there's any limit. I think modern projectors can probably go up to about 120 frames a second. It ceases to become anything. The difference between 24 and 48 is profound. Some people are talking about 60 frames a second -- and the difference between 48 and 60 is very minor. I mean, I can barely tell the difference, because we did tests of these frame rates.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/...bbit-director-48-fps-comic-con_n_1674177.html
 

AEfx

Well-Known Member
Interesting read

More interesting was the reaction to it by the audience...reactions that it ceased to look like film and looked more like really, really clear video.

Basically, as Cameron and Jackson don't really make live action films, but animated films with live action footage, I'm sure they like it quite a bit. Just like how it makes a difference in video games. What they make is similar.

That said, this discussion has far spiraled away from the topic. Some here think that 60FPS is going to be some new craze, just like some thought that 3-D was going to do the same. If anything had the chance, it was 3-D, and as 3-D is already starting to fade, I just don't see it being that big of a deal.

I couldn't really care less about 60fps one way or another - but I am confident it's not going to make any future film a hit just because it may be shot in it.
 

CinematicFusion

Well-Known Member
After reading the rumors posted by Tim on another website.... I wonder why Disney doesn't go back and reconsider a version of Mysterious Island. That would seem to fit perfectly inside Animal Kingdom.
Hearing the possibilities for Avatar and the Motorbike Coaster being possibly shelved...I'm not all that jazzed about the new land. Doesn't sound that exciting to just bring in a Avatar trail and a version of Soarin. Clone Mysterious Island, just like they are cloning RSR for Hollywood Studios. It would be cheaper, all the research and ride development has been done.

From the post by Tim...
"In the Animal Kingdom, Camp Minnie Mickey is being cleared out for World of Avatar, but it doesn’t mean that the project is any closer to construction. The clearing out of Camp Minnie Mickey began in 2008 when the Pocahontas and her Forest Friends stage show was removed. At the time, this was to make way for another project (a version of Tokyo Disney Sea’s Mysterious Island), but as the economy struggled Disney suspended those plans. After the September 20, 2011 announcement of the World of Avatar, Disney has continued to clear out Camp Minnie Mickey.
Little information has come out publicly on the Avatar project, but right now the attractions being discussed are as follows:
Flora and Fauna of Pandora walk through: This would be a family attraction, and possibly the entrance to the land.
Soarin’ over Pandora: This would use a simulator similar to the existing Soarin’ simulator but with 3D components
Motorbike Coaster: Designed by ride manufacturer Vekoma, the Motorbike design was proposed for Shanghai Disneyland for a Tron attraction. The vehicle seating is similar to that of a motor cycle (guests leaning forward with their feet back) and would face potential capacity issues. The theming of this ride would be elaborate, and it is the likeliest thing to be cut if they’re trying to reduce the budget. It also seems this is the project that James Cameron is most enthusiastic about."
 

Magenta Panther

Well-Known Member
After reading the rumors posted by Tim on another website.... I wonder why Disney doesn't go back and reconsider a version of Mysterious Island. That would seem to fit perfectly inside Animal Kingdom.

I think this would be a great idea. All sorts of fictional, mythical creatures could make their home there - unicorns, dragons, trolls, minotaurs, gryphons, phoenixes and the like. In fact, that could be the purpose of the place - just like Animal Kingdom is a home for endangered wildlife, Mysterious Island could be a home for endangered mythical creatures. I think it could work.
 

ChrisM

Well-Known Member
I think this would be a great idea. All sorts of fictional, mythical creatures could make their home there - unicorns, dragons, trolls, minotaurs, gryphons, phoenixes and the like. In fact, that could be the purpose of the place - just like Animal Kingdom is a home for endangered wildlife, Mysterious Island could be a home for endangered mythical creatures. I think it could work.

Not trolls. They already have a home right here.
 

bubbles1812

Well-Known Member
I think this would be a great idea. All sorts of fictional, mythical creatures could make their home there - unicorns, dragons, trolls, minotaurs, gryphons, phoenixes and the like. In fact, that could be the purpose of the place - just like Animal Kingdom is a home for endangered wildlife, Mysterious Island could be a home for endangered mythical creatures. I think it could work.

That kind of sounds like the whole idea of Beastly Kingdom though. Isn't that what they wanted to do essentially? Create a home for mythic creatures? They were going to have some sort of unicorn and dragon roller coaster. I know that much. And we know how well that turned out... :(

At this point, personally, I'm throwing my support behind Avatar...if that is, the plan that is talked about right now ends up going through. If they axe the motorbike roller coaster, I lose a lot of interest. Think they need two E-tickets to make Avatar successful for the long term, regardless of how well the other movies do. It could be really great, but they just have to do it big and make it a quality place. It wasn't the characters/story that audiences like...it was the world. So that absolutely has to be the selling point.
 

SleepingMonk

Well-Known Member
They could always clone the old Frontierland Shootin' Arcade...just a few minor changes....

avatar%20military.jpg
 

jdmdisney99

Well-Known Member
As I recently posted in another thread, I am one of the people who think Avatarland will be amazing. If WDI keeps the level of detail they used in New Fanasyland, this will be one of the best lands in WDW, ala TDS. Now I don't want to start a thread where people just start fighting over whether Avatar in AK is going to happen or not. Assuming it does happen, I was wondering what people think the land will be like when it happens.
Here are my ideas on how it will turn out:
-Guests would enter across the current Camp Mickey-Minnie bridge. As guests came upon the entrance, you would find a recreation of RDA ESC 01 (or Hell's Gate which I don't think Disney would use). Inside would be the Hell's Kitchen cafeteria QS location and a place where you can tour the armor bay. Also in the RDA ESC 01 would be the actual entrance to Pandora. Guests would enter in groups into a giant "link unit" and transported to the forest of Pandora.
-After guests exit the link unit, the first sight you'd see would be the Hometree. At the end of the land would be this glowing, living masterpiece.
-Another sight to see would be the Hallelujah Mountains "floating" to your left.
I think I'll shorten things up.
-A transporter
-A cool flight ride better than HPatFJ
-An omniver ride through Pandora
-An IMAX show
and -A restaurant where you can eat foods native to Pandora
(Oh and also meet n greets with N'avi)
:D
Now you share yours!
 

danlb_2000

Premium Member
I know, I'm just a terd who decided to make my own thread just to share my own idea. Stupid selfish me. :(

It's not meant to be personal. A lot of times people don't look beyond the first page and don't know that there is already on going discussion on a topic. It's also nice to keep similar discussion in the same thread so you don't end up with the exact same conversation happening in multiple threads.
 

Register on WDWMAGIC. This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.

Back
Top Bottom