AVATAR land - the specifics

rioriz · Sep 6, 2016

Coaster Lover said:
Smaller ride vehicles will allow for a greater range of motion of the ride vehicles. With Soarin', the ride vehicles hold a fair number of people per row, but the ride vehicles really don't move much at all (relatively speaking).

If you want to thrill of FJ then the smaller rows are necessary...along with the needed space for theme!

twebber55 · Sep 6, 2016

rioriz said:
If you want to thrill of FJ then the smaller rows are necessary...along with the needed space for theme!

how close to thrill to FJ are we talking about?

rioriz · Sep 6, 2016

twebber55 said:
how close to thrill to FJ are we talking about?

Id Say Version of 2.0 of FJ at least, plus 3D, but this is educated guessing as I or no one I know have been able to ride a testing...the ability is within the technology

1023 · Sep 6, 2016

I will say this again, "This ride will be impressive." I'm going to use a comparison that I am not sure has been used here before.

Look at the attraction Dinosaur. It has had some changes from its inception but is largely the same attraction as the superior Indy attraction in DLR. From the queue to the attraction itself, it steals from the idea from a couple IP's that Disney doesn't own. It also is nestled in an area next to a parking lot carnival. Entering a museum and being privy to a new tech that enables us to study and bring back dinosaurs from the past is "meh" to many.

The attraction itself is not helped by its theatrical presentation, and it's current pre-show, dates the attraction in an unpleasant way. The journey inside the ride vehicle itself is jarring and it uses the darkness within to mask the underwhelming show effects. The final scene (climax, coup de grace, payoff...) can be thrilling or ho hum. I have to say that I really enjoy the photos where everyone is looking the wrong way...

Now let's look at INDY in DLR. It's had show updates and improvements in theatrical lighting, but the attraction is essentially the same as the day it opened. It had the benefit of being placed adjacent to some of the most epic and beloved attractions in Disneyland. The queue is still engaging and actually adds to the experience. The queue is it's own pre-show, full of scenes and interaction. You feel a part of one of Indiana Jones's adventures. You can even decipher the messages written in the "ancient" language.

The attraction itself is another story, one you are already familiar with because of the movies. Elements from the movies appear in the attraction and you get to experience those thrilling moments. The use of effects, lighting, and animatronics is part of "your" story and not just wow factor. The ride is something you can enjoy many times and is not overly jarring to ride. (Speaking of jarring, thank goodness they added cushioning to Matterhorn, because ouchie.)

So why did I write all of the above? I actually had a reason....what was it...?

Oh yeah....

We have all experienced Soarin'. It's a great attraction, even with it's Southwest Airlines, "cattle call", boarding queue (or boring queue). It is a shared adventure with 86 other people over California or now THE WORLD.... It isn't much to look at. Even in DCA, it's a hanger. The experience itself is just neat. Subtle motion combined with sound, smell, and a beautiful visual presentation. It is truly an immersive experience granted to you via your 5 senses. (6 if you see dead people.)

Now for "Flight of Passage". This attraction and it's attached sibling have been given a whole land. Your first experience with it will actually be before you enter the park. You will get glimpses of it for the first few years throughout the park. The themed combined show buildings will draw you in like a magnet. If you are looking for a comparison, look no further than "The Wizarding World". Much like the Indy experience, you will feel very much a part of a familiar space.

The attraction itself has a very leading pre-show queue, ala Indy and Splash. The visuals are engaging and may cause you not to fret over how long you've been standing in line. Once you reach the opportunity to board, you will only be among a few people. This is far different from Soarin". Getting ready to go will be exciting, not because of what you see, but because of the anticipation. Darkness around you will abruptly fade to reveal your actual surroundings. All of your senses will come alive much like Soarin', but this experience is more thrilling. You have actually become a part of this universe in a tangible way. Things that you have seen in the movie and movies to come, will be around you. You will actually know and feel what it is like to ride one of these amazing "beasts" through this fantastic world.

Comparing Soarin' to FoP, FoP is the Indy you've been waiting for.

*1023*

As an aside, (which I offer often) the "boat ride" will be just as compelling.

rioriz · Sep 6, 2016

1023 said:
I will say this again, "This ride will be impressive." I'm going to use a comparison that I am not sure has been used here before.

Look at the attraction Dinosaur. It has had some changes from its inception but is largely the same attraction as the superior Indy attraction in DLR. From the queue to the attraction itself, it steals from the idea from a couple IP's that Disney doesn't own. It also is nestled in an area next to a parking lot carnival. Entering a museum and being privy to a new tech that enables us to study and bring back dinosaurs from the past is "meh" to many.

The attraction itself is not helped by its theatrical presentation, and it's current pre-show, dates the attraction in an unpleasant way. The journey inside the ride vehicle itself is jarring and it uses the darkness within to mask the underwhelming show effects. The final scene (climax, coup de grace, payoff...) can be thrilling or ho hum. I have to say that I really enjoy the photos where everyone is looking the wrong way...

Now let's look at INDY in DLR. It's had show updates and improvements in theatrical lighting, but the attraction is essentially the same as the day it opened. It had the benefit of being placed adjacent to some of the most epic and beloved attractions in Disneyland. The queue is still engaging and actually adds to the experience. The queue is it's own pre-show, full of scenes and interaction. You feel a part of one of Indiana Jones's adventures. You can even decipher the messages written in the "ancient" language.

The attraction itself is another story, one you are already familiar with because of the movies. Elements from the movies appear in the attraction and you get to experience those thrilling moments. The use of effects, lighting, and animatronics is part of "your" story and not just wow factor. The ride is something you can enjoy many times and is not overly jarring to ride. (Speaking of jarring, thank goodness they added cushioning to Matterhorn, because ouchie.)

So why did I write all of the above? I actually had a reason....what was it...?

Oh yeah....

We have all experienced Soarin'. It's a great attraction, even with it's Southwest Airlines, "cattle call", boarding queue (or boring queue). It is a shared adventure with 86 other people over California or now THE WORLD.... It isn't much to look at. Even in DCA, it's a hanger. The experience itself is just neat. Subtle motion combined with sound, smell, and a beautiful visual presentation. It is truly an immersive experience granted to you via your 5 senses. (6 if you see dead people.)

Now for "Flight of Passage". This attraction and it's attached sibling have been given a whole land. Your first experience with it will actually be before you enter the park. You will get glimpses of it for the first few years throughout the park. The themed combined show buildings will draw you in like a magnet. If you are looking for a comparison, look no further than "The Wizarding World". Much like the Indy experience, you will feel very much a part of a familiar space.

The attraction itself has a very leading pre-show queue, ala Indy and Splash. The visuals are engaging and may cause you not to fret over how long you've been standing in line. Once you reach the opportunity to board, you will only be among a few people. This is far different from Soarin". Getting ready to go will be exciting, not because of what you see, but because of the anticipation. Darkness around you will abruptly fade to reveal your actual surroundings. All of your senses will come alive much like Soarin', but this experience is more thrilling. You have actually become a part of this universe in a tangible way. Things that you have seen in the movie and movies to come, will be around you. You will actually know and feel what it is like to ride one of these amazing "beasts" through this fantastic world.

Comparing Soarin' to FoP, FoP is the Indy you've been waiting for.

*1023*

As an aside, (which I offer often) the "boat ride" will be just as compelling.

I wish I had the patience to write up such a compelling argument as you have to the greatness this attraction will be and the standard it will set going forth...Bravo!

Mike S · Sep 6, 2016

1023 said:
I will say this again, "This ride will be impressive." I'm going to use a comparison that I am not sure has been used here before.

Look at the attraction Dinosaur. It has had some changes from its inception but is largely the same attraction as the superior Indy attraction in DLR. From the queue to the attraction itself, it steals from the idea from a couple IP's that Disney doesn't own. It also is nestled in an area next to a parking lot carnival. Entering a museum and being privy to a new tech that enables us to study and bring back dinosaurs from the past is "meh" to many.

The attraction itself is not helped by its theatrical presentation, and it's current pre-show, dates the attraction in an unpleasant way. The journey inside the ride vehicle itself is jarring and it uses the darkness within to mask the underwhelming show effects. The final scene (climax, coup de grace, payoff...) can be thrilling or ho hum. I have to say that I really enjoy the photos where everyone is looking the wrong way...

Now let's look at INDY in DLR. It's had show updates and improvements in theatrical lighting, but the attraction is essentially the same as the day it opened. It had the benefit of being placed adjacent to some of the most epic and beloved attractions in Disneyland. The queue is still engaging and actually adds to the experience. The queue is it's own pre-show, full of scenes and interaction. You feel a part of one of Indiana Jones's adventures. You can even decipher the messages written in the "ancient" language.

The attraction itself is another story, one you are already familiar with because of the movies. Elements from the movies appear in the attraction and you get to experience those thrilling moments. The use of effects, lighting, and animatronics is part of "your" story and not just wow factor. The ride is something you can enjoy many times and is not overly jarring to ride. (Speaking of jarring, thank goodness they added cushioning to Matterhorn, because ouchie.)

So why did I write all of the above? I actually had a reason....what was it...?

Oh yeah....

We have all experienced Soarin'. It's a great attraction, even with it's Southwest Airlines, "cattle call", boarding queue (or boring queue). It is a shared adventure with 86 other people over California or now THE WORLD.... It isn't much to look at. Even in DCA, it's a hanger. The experience itself is just neat. Subtle motion combined with sound, smell, and a beautiful visual presentation. It is truly an immersive experience granted to you via your 5 senses. (6 if you see dead people.)

Now for "Flight of Passage". This attraction and it's attached sibling have been given a whole land. Your first experience with it will actually be before you enter the park. You will get glimpses of it for the first few years throughout the park. The themed combined show buildings will draw you in like a magnet. If you are looking for a comparison, look no further than "The Wizarding World". Much like the Indy experience, you will feel very much a part of a familiar space.

The attraction itself has a very leading pre-show queue, ala Indy and Splash. The visuals are engaging and may cause you not to fret over how long you've been standing in line. Once you reach the opportunity to board, you will only be among a few people. This is far different from Soarin". Getting ready to go will be exciting, not because of what you see, but because of the anticipation. Darkness around you will abruptly fade to reveal your actual surroundings. All of your senses will come alive much like Soarin', but this experience is more thrilling. You have actually become a part of this universe in a tangible way. Things that you have seen in the movie and movies to come, will be around you. You will actually know and feel what it is like to ride one of these amazing "beasts" through this fantastic world.

Comparing Soarin' to FoP, FoP is the Indy you've been waiting for.

*1023*

As an aside, (which I offer often) the "boat ride" will be just as compelling.

Sounds amazing. I hope everyone is right with this.

Monoblanco13 · Sep 6, 2016

1023 said:
I will say this again, "This ride will be impressive." I'm going to use a comparison that I am not sure has been used here before.

Look at the attraction Dinosaur. It has had some changes from its inception but is largely the same attraction as the superior Indy attraction in DLR. From the queue to the attraction itself, it steals from the idea from a couple IP's that Disney doesn't own. It also is nestled in an area next to a parking lot carnival. Entering a museum and being privy to a new tech that enables us to study and bring back dinosaurs from the past is "meh" to many.

The attraction itself is not helped by its theatrical presentation, and it's current pre-show, dates the attraction in an unpleasant way. The journey inside the ride vehicle itself is jarring and it uses the darkness within to mask the underwhelming show effects. The final scene (climax, coup de grace, payoff...) can be thrilling or ho hum. I have to say that I really enjoy the photos where everyone is looking the wrong way...

Now let's look at INDY in DLR. It's had show updates and improvements in theatrical lighting, but the attraction is essentially the same as the day it opened. It had the benefit of being placed adjacent to some of the most epic and beloved attractions in Disneyland. The queue is still engaging and actually adds to the experience. The queue is it's own pre-show, full of scenes and interaction. You feel a part of one of Indiana Jones's adventures. You can even decipher the messages written in the "ancient" language.

The attraction itself is another story, one you are already familiar with because of the movies. Elements from the movies appear in the attraction and you get to experience those thrilling moments. The use of effects, lighting, and animatronics is part of "your" story and not just wow factor. The ride is something you can enjoy many times and is not overly jarring to ride. (Speaking of jarring, thank goodness they added cushioning to Matterhorn, because ouchie.)

So why did I write all of the above? I actually had a reason....what was it...?

Oh yeah....

We have all experienced Soarin'. It's a great attraction, even with it's Southwest Airlines, "cattle call", boarding queue (or boring queue). It is a shared adventure with 86 other people over California or now THE WORLD.... It isn't much to look at. Even in DCA, it's a hanger. The experience itself is just neat. Subtle motion combined with sound, smell, and a beautiful visual presentation. It is truly an immersive experience granted to you via your 5 senses. (6 if you see dead people.)

Now for "Flight of Passage". This attraction and it's attached sibling have been given a whole land. Your first experience with it will actually be before you enter the park. You will get glimpses of it for the first few years throughout the park. The themed combined show buildings will draw you in like a magnet. If you are looking for a comparison, look no further than "The Wizarding World". Much like the Indy experience, you will feel very much a part of a familiar space.

The attraction itself has a very leading pre-show queue, ala Indy and Splash. The visuals are engaging and may cause you not to fret over how long you've been standing in line. Once you reach the opportunity to board, you will only be among a few people. This is far different from Soarin". Getting ready to go will be exciting, not because of what you see, but because of the anticipation. Darkness around you will abruptly fade to reveal your actual surroundings. All of your senses will come alive much like Soarin', but this experience is more thrilling. You have actually become a part of this universe in a tangible way. Things that you have seen in the movie and movies to come, will be around you. You will actually know and feel what it is like to ride one of these amazing "beasts" through this fantastic world.

Comparing Soarin' to FoP, FoP is the Indy you've been waiting for.

*1023*

As an aside, (which I offer often) the "boat ride" will be just as compelling.

This is great, side note why is the Indy ride in DLR nice and fancy though they are letting Dinosaur rot? Last I checked the carnotaurus that chased you has a "hefty bag" neck. (Lots of sag). Anyways thanks for the update, nice to hear some optimism.

flyerjab · Sep 6, 2016

1023 said:
I will say this again, "This ride will be impressive." I'm going to use a comparison that I am not sure has been used here before.

Look at the attraction Dinosaur. It has had some changes from its inception but is largely the same attraction as the superior Indy attraction in DLR. From the queue to the attraction itself, it steals from the idea from a couple IP's that Disney doesn't own. It also is nestled in an area next to a parking lot carnival. Entering a museum and being privy to a new tech that enables us to study and bring back dinosaurs from the past is "meh" to many.

The attraction itself is not helped by its theatrical presentation, and it's current pre-show, dates the attraction in an unpleasant way. The journey inside the ride vehicle itself is jarring and it uses the darkness within to mask the underwhelming show effects. The final scene (climax, coup de grace, payoff...) can be thrilling or ho hum. I have to say that I really enjoy the photos where everyone is looking the wrong way...

Now let's look at INDY in DLR. It's had show updates and improvements in theatrical lighting, but the attraction is essentially the same as the day it opened. It had the benefit of being placed adjacent to some of the most epic and beloved attractions in Disneyland. The queue is still engaging and actually adds to the experience. The queue is it's own pre-show, full of scenes and interaction. You feel a part of one of Indiana Jones's adventures. You can even decipher the messages written in the "ancient" language.

The attraction itself is another story, one you are already familiar with because of the movies. Elements from the movies appear in the attraction and you get to experience those thrilling moments. The use of effects, lighting, and animatronics is part of "your" story and not just wow factor. The ride is something you can enjoy many times and is not overly jarring to ride. (Speaking of jarring, thank goodness they added cushioning to Matterhorn, because ouchie.)

So why did I write all of the above? I actually had a reason....what was it...?

Oh yeah....

We have all experienced Soarin'. It's a great attraction, even with it's Southwest Airlines, "cattle call", boarding queue (or boring queue). It is a shared adventure with 86 other people over California or now THE WORLD.... It isn't much to look at. Even in DCA, it's a hanger. The experience itself is just neat. Subtle motion combined with sound, smell, and a beautiful visual presentation. It is truly an immersive experience granted to you via your 5 senses. (6 if you see dead people.)

Now for "Flight of Passage". This attraction and it's attached sibling have been given a whole land. Your first experience with it will actually be before you enter the park. You will get glimpses of it for the first few years throughout the park. The themed combined show buildings will draw you in like a magnet. If you are looking for a comparison, look no further than "The Wizarding World". Much like the Indy experience, you will feel very much a part of a familiar space.

The attraction itself has a very leading pre-show queue, ala Indy and Splash. The visuals are engaging and may cause you not to fret over how long you've been standing in line. Once you reach the opportunity to board, you will only be among a few people. This is far different from Soarin". Getting ready to go will be exciting, not because of what you see, but because of the anticipation. Darkness around you will abruptly fade to reveal your actual surroundings. All of your senses will come alive much like Soarin', but this experience is more thrilling. You have actually become a part of this universe in a tangible way. Things that you have seen in the movie and movies to come, will be around you. You will actually know and feel what it is like to ride one of these amazing "beasts" through this fantastic world.

Comparing Soarin' to FoP, FoP is the Indy you've been waiting for.

*1023*

As an aside, (which I offer often) the "boat ride" will be just as compelling.

Thanks for this. I have been touting this ride (and land) since it was first revealed in concept art. You have quite deftly (as always) summed it up in one eloquent post.

Nice to see you back posting and hope to hear more from you.

Mike S · Sep 6, 2016

Monoblanco13 said:
This is great, side note why is the Indy ride in DLR nice and fancy though they are letting Dinosaur rot? Last I checked the carnotaurus that chased you has a "hefty bag" neck. (Lots of sag). Anyways thanks for the update, nice to hear some optimism.

Aren't the necks supposed to have sag to them?

My last ride on Dinosaur the photo Carnotaurus was motionless and stuck in an absolutely hilarious position :hilarious:

1023 · Sep 6, 2016

Mike S said:
Aren't the necks supposed to have sag to them?

My last ride on Dinosaur the photo Carnotaurus was motionless and stuck in an absolutely hilarious position

"Motionless" is a new themeing trick... We are going back in time and pulling from Madame Tussaud. The first major experiment in recent years was the Strobe light effect on the Yeti... Strobe lights make everything better....

Also, as a natural effect of aging, we all end up with some sag in our skin around our neck. Let's be polite and not mention it to the poor old Carnotaurus....

*1023*

Just some humor folks....

KingOfEpicocity · Sep 6, 2016

I think I'm the only one who likes Dino more than Indy. I just don't feel like I'm getting anything impressive out of Indy. And Dino is getting a pretty extensive refurb. From what Ive been told it's not just a repaint. But I get the Soarin Vs. FOP comparison. I can't wait to hear more details as the opening date draws closer.

PorterRedkey · Sep 6, 2016

1023 said:
I will say this again, "This ride will be impressive." I'm going to use a comparison that I am not sure has been used here before.

Look at the attraction Dinosaur. It has had some changes from its inception but is largely the same attraction as the superior Indy attraction in DLR. From the queue to the attraction itself, it steals from the idea from a couple IP's that Disney doesn't own. It also is nestled in an area next to a parking lot carnival. Entering a museum and being privy to a new tech that enables us to study and bring back dinosaurs from the past is "meh" to many.

The attraction itself is not helped by its theatrical presentation, and it's current pre-show, dates the attraction in an unpleasant way. The journey inside the ride vehicle itself is jarring and it uses the darkness within to mask the underwhelming show effects. The final scene (climax, coup de grace, payoff...) can be thrilling or ho hum. I have to say that I really enjoy the photos where everyone is looking the wrong way...

Now let's look at INDY in DLR. It's had show updates and improvements in theatrical lighting, but the attraction is essentially the same as the day it opened. It had the benefit of being placed adjacent to some of the most epic and beloved attractions in Disneyland. The queue is still engaging and actually adds to the experience. The queue is it's own pre-show, full of scenes and interaction. You feel a part of one of Indiana Jones's adventures. You can even decipher the messages written in the "ancient" language.

The attraction itself is another story, one you are already familiar with because of the movies. Elements from the movies appear in the attraction and you get to experience those thrilling moments. The use of effects, lighting, and animatronics is part of "your" story and not just wow factor. The ride is something you can enjoy many times and is not overly jarring to ride. (Speaking of jarring, thank goodness they added cushioning to Matterhorn, because ouchie.)

So why did I write all of the above? I actually had a reason....what was it...?

Oh yeah....

We have all experienced Soarin'. It's a great attraction, even with it's Southwest Airlines, "cattle call", boarding queue (or boring queue). It is a shared adventure with 86 other people over California or now THE WORLD.... It isn't much to look at. Even in DCA, it's a hanger. The experience itself is just neat. Subtle motion combined with sound, smell, and a beautiful visual presentation. It is truly an immersive experience granted to you via your 5 senses. (6 if you see dead people.)

Now for "Flight of Passage". This attraction and it's attached sibling have been given a whole land. Your first experience with it will actually be before you enter the park. You will get glimpses of it for the first few years throughout the park. The themed combined show buildings will draw you in like a magnet. If you are looking for a comparison, look no further than "The Wizarding World". Much like the Indy experience, you will feel very much a part of a familiar space.

The attraction itself has a very leading pre-show queue, ala Indy and Splash. The visuals are engaging and may cause you not to fret over how long you've been standing in line. Once you reach the opportunity to board, you will only be among a few people. This is far different from Soarin". Getting ready to go will be exciting, not because of what you see, but because of the anticipation. Darkness around you will abruptly fade to reveal your actual surroundings. All of your senses will come alive much like Soarin', but this experience is more thrilling. You have actually become a part of this universe in a tangible way. Things that you have seen in the movie and movies to come, will be around you. You will actually know and feel what it is like to ride one of these amazing "beasts" through this fantastic world.

Comparing Soarin' to FoP, FoP is the Indy you've been waiting for.

*1023*

As an aside, (which I offer often) the "boat ride" will be just as compelling.

Good to hear. Do you know if the boat ride will have stops or will it be as short as the route indicates?

PorterRedkey · Sep 6, 2016

KingOfEpicocity said:
I think I'm the only one who likes Dino more than Indy. I just don't feel like I'm getting anything impressive out of Indy. And Dino is getting a pretty extensive refurb. From what Ive been told it's not just a repaint. But I get the Soarin Vs. FOP comparison. I can't wait to hear more details as the opening date draws closer.

So you have ridden both and you prefer Dinosaur? Is that right? For me, there is no comparison, but to each his own. Personally, I like to see what environment I am riding through instead of hearing sounds in the dark..

flyerjab · Sep 6, 2016

PorterRedkey said:
Good to hear. Do you know if the boat ride will have stops or will it be as short as the route indicates?

That is a really great question regarding stops during the ride path. That would add time to the ride, especially since the track does not seem overly long.

PorterRedkey · Sep 6, 2016

flyerjab said:
That is a really great question regarding stops during the ride path. That would add time to the ride, especially since the track does not seem overly long.

And it could be easily done if they are using the Shanghai Pirates ride system. However, I have not heard that this is the case. (not an insider).

KingOfEpicocity · Sep 7, 2016

PorterRedkey said:
So you have ridden both and you prefer Dinosaur? Is that right? For me, there is no comparison, but to each his own. Personally, I like to see what environment I am riding through instead of hearing sounds in the dark..

I understand the whole "darkness" argument but here's what it is for me. Indy is a lot of still sets, an impressive one I agree, but the darts, the bugs, and the rat smoke projection are just not an impressive effect. I guess I find dinosaur truly scary and intense. Indy is more of a fun adventure. Plus, giant AA Dino's. I have a thing for AAs. Not to mention that wonderful cheesy 90s vibe. But yes Indy has a remarkably better (although long) queue.

Monoblanco13 · Sep 7, 2016

KingOfEpicocity said:
I think I'm the only one who likes Dino more than Indy. I just don't feel like I'm getting anything impressive out of Indy. And Dino is getting a pretty extensive refurb. From what Ive been told it's not just a repaint. But I get the Soarin Vs. FOP comparison. I can't wait to hear more details as the opening date draws closer.

I had forgotten about this refurb coming up. Too bad all the original pieces won't be working due to removed parts. Though I will try to have some optimism as I think it was mentioned that some projector work was being done. Now we wait. Regarding Avatar I hope if and when they place the waterfall on the mountains it stays for good, instead of eventually ending up like Tomorrowland's.

rioriz · Sep 7, 2016

flyerjab said:
That is a really great question regarding stops during the ride path. That would add time to the ride, especially since the track does not seem overly long.

At this time no show stops Iv'e heard of but is definitely not out of the question depending on capacity. You will definitely leave the attraction thinking it ended too soon but that will be because there is sooo much to be seen. The re-ride ability factor will be there.

twebber55 · Sep 7, 2016

rioriz said:
At this time no show stops Iv'e heard of but is definitely not out of the question is capacity. You will definitely leave the attraction thinking it ended too soon but that will be because there is sooo much to be seen. The re-ride ability factor will be there.

over/under is 5 minutes on this ride

rioriz · Sep 7, 2016

twebber55 said:
over/under is 5 minutes on this ride

Slightly Under 5...Living with the Land seems like a good pace to me

AVATAR land - the specifics

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