As of February, guests will no longer be able to see a trained Disney Artist who is d

[JasonCajun]

To me, Disney is more than just a business. When management views a company as just a business, they lose their concern for quality and value. All bean counters see is the bottom line. They do not see the human factor, or how decisions like this will affect their business in the future.

Cutting costs and becomine more efficient is great, if you do not cut quality as well. You can tell that these people that are getting let go actually care about what they do and have a positive impact on guests.

The suits and bean counters do not see that because all they see is profits, and being able to tell their shareholders that they made them X amount of dollars this year. They have no vision.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Jason:

Working in retail, I agree that most bean counters don't know what the long term effects on their decisions tend to be. But what I know is that the reality is that things do change. And that most of the time, the bean counters, and those in charge of the vision of "my" company are usually right in the long run. Some of this is done with a lot of market research, business models, market testing, etc. As people, most of us are reluctant to change. For example, if I am correct, Buzz Lightyear Spaceranger Spin replaced, or filled the spot where "If You Had Wings" once resided. Now, I loved that ride, but it was time for it to do, due to lack of sponsorhip and riders. And the Buzz attraction is a huge hit. So, did I agree with the change. NO!!! Did it work out? A resounding YES!!!!! It's about putting butts in the seats. And as much as I hate it, things are going to continue to change. I for one see a day when very little of what is left of "Walts'" Disney, will be left. Does that mean people will quit visiting? Nope. Not at all.

I don't think they ALL lack vision at Disney. I just think things change.

 

[9oldmen]

You're funny!

The business part I agree with but the way you conduct yourself in a business is another. If the people involved knew this was going to happen a year ago or two years ago then why didn't they give us more than two months to get ourselves straightened out with other jobs.

Most of us have worked in production. Some of us worked at other studios at one time or another. Some of us worked on the Mall Tours during the 90's for Feature Animation. Feature Animation would send us places to represent the company. Matter of fact some people had a chance to work in Feature Animation and turned it down. Believe it or not, some people don't like to be under that type of stress and pressure in a studio. Some people like the spotlight in a different way, they want an audience in front of them. And for your information...all animators are entertainers, some are better than others. Some of us have BA's, MFA's and some of us are close to having our
Doctorates. Two of us are pulic school and private school teachers, so yeah, any way you cut it....we're qualified no matter what you say.

Yes, we were given a chance to stay with the company....stay and do what? They want us to stay and take a pay cut, on top of that, even though I can draw they want me to trace, TRACE! I've already tested it out and all the guest complained about me faking it. Do you know of any other art jobs that have openings at Disney! Please let me know so that I can apply now. And how many times do I have to say that this has nothing to do with 2D or 3D animation. If this had anything to do with 3D animation then why not train us to produce 3D art, that's what Pixar and Disney does with traditional artists.

So you're telling me that you would like to see someone act like they were an artist and trace. And when your child ask for career advice or drawing tips and this person that's acting like an artist responds, "Well, I'm really not an artists and I really don't know what to tell you....maybe college will be a good start. Okay....okay, see you later."

I guess you're a Britney Spears and Ashley Simpson fan.

You don't have to like or hate Michael Eisner to be against what we believe is right for the guest experience. But you know what, I respect your opinion and the thousands upon 20 thousand upon 50 thousand and more that love what I once did in that building do as well. You remind me of the people that say the things that you do then come up to one of us and ask for a special Disney personalized piece of art.

The managers from my area haven't even talked to us after the decision was made! They're all running from us. Be a man, be a woman and say something even if you feel it was right to let us go. Even the higher ups in the company know us and they've been dodging the animation artists as well.
On behalf of management, I will say that a majority of managers from other areas in the company know that it wasn't a good decision.
I know because they've persaonally come to the attraction and found me to let me know. My friends, the great old animators that worked with Walt and other great legends sure feel that management didn't make a good decision, so I guess we (the artists, the guest, other wdwmagic fans) must be right about something.
Let's write Roy Disney and see how he feels, I've met him enough to know that he might not be happy at all about what happened to us. These are some of the people other than the guest that have opinions that matter to me. But you know what I respect your opinion as well HennieBogan1966.

And on top of that, yesterday right after I made my last posting, the mail man rings my doorbell to give me a package. A family from Pembroke Pines that has a very ill daughter sent me a Christmas gift! I met this young lady 3 years ago. Everyday this young lady has headaches, they won't go away. The Mayo Clinic can't even help this family! She loves drawing, she might not be great at it but she loves the movies and drawing. I spent time giving her lessons and drawing her favorite Disney characters. They always come back to see me....not anymore. The point is yes, we can carry on the magic but who's going to create that magic through a drawing. Would anyone want that through a tracing?!!! If so, anyone other than HennieBogan1966 please let me know if I'm wrong, if I am, then I'll sit back and watch and listen to your letters from now on.

 

[barnum42]

I've still heard nothing back from Disney World to my complaint letter. Looks like they are sticking their hands on their ears and going "la la la la la la la".

Hennie - nothing wrong with change, Walt Disney and his animators changed the way movies were made and animation was perceived. He made many good changes.

But a dumb decision is a dumb decision. Ladies and gentlemen, we are witnessing a dumb decision being handled in a dumb manner.

 

[tigger248]

I just wanted to add something on to the comment about this being a good decision budget-wise. Would paying a few animators at this one attraction put the company into bankruptcy? I highly doubt it.

To quote a line from one of my favorite Christmas movies Christmas Vacation "Sometimes things look good on paper but don't look so good when you see how they affect people..." (I hope I got that right, if not then it's at least the general idea of what was said). What I'm trying to say is this: Management thinks that they're doing what's right for the company without thinking about how it will affect the attraction. They think "Hey, this is a good idea. It will save money" without realizing just how important the animators really are.

There's nothing magical about watching someone trace. Even I can do that (and I am definitely not an artist!) I only hope that they realize their mistake before it's too late.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

So are we saying here that Disney should just ignore whether or not the attraction is getting enough guests day to day, just because, in the opinion of some, it's a "dumb decision" to shut it down? So, could it be said that all attractions should remain open no matter the cost to the company, if just one person says, "hey, that's my favorite ride?" .

At some point, someone has to make the difficult decisions. No, everyone isn't always going to agree. As I have said, I was a big fan of IYHW. Also loved 20K. And I do love CoP also. But you know what? I understand that business needs change, and that sometimes, the numbers just aren't there.

I love the animated classics, as well as a lot of what has been done in recent memory by Disney. But this isn't about recent productions. It is about an attraction in the park, how it ties in with what Disney does now in movie production, and HOW MANY GUESTS VISIT THAT ATTRACTION EACH DAY.

Again, if you aren't putting butts in the seats, it's a loss to the company. So, should Disney maintain a losing attraction? Pay for it to be staffed, cleaned, serviced each day? If they did that in each case, can you imagine the fallout across the spectrum of opinions with regard to new attractions, pay scales, etc. etc.?

I'm not saying that I actually like the idea of their doing away with fav. attractions, or for that matter, the studio. What I AM saying is that I can understand it from a business perspective.

What I find odd is how some people refuse to look at this from that perspective, and choose only to bash Disney mgmt. once again for a decision that isn't popular. How many of you out there would flush money away on something, anything, that wasn't providing some type of return for you? And before I see the tidal wave of responses about how the studio provided huge returns in guest "experiences", that's NOT what I am referring to.

HOW MUCH MONEY DID THE STUDIO MAKE FOR DISNEY? HOW MUCH ART DID THEY SELL "THRU" THE STUDIO? HOW MUCH WAS IT COSTING DISNEY TO KEEP THE STUDIO?

These are some of the questions that I am SURE came up during meetings/discussions surrounding the fate of the studio.

 

[Zurg]

There's a family named the Dunlap's....

...We never received this letter and it only leaves this in my mind, my area manager knew for a long time what was going to happen and wanted to ignore the vital parts of this letter.

Here is the Dunlap's take:
Management at Disney is all about themselves.
Not Guest.
Not CMs.
Not shareholders.

They have a moral obligation to the Guest and CM but a legal one to the shareholders.

That this manager put the "little" thank you intended for Dave and Isaac on her wall suggest she thinks she is more important than the guests who sent it and the CM and she is key to shareholders.

I am sure she isn't.

I am the guest in question and am a shareholder.

IMHO Cut her and keep the artist.

The suggestion above is that this is a rational business decision, that Disney can make good business Decisions. The reaction of Disney shareholders at the last annual meeting confirms that is not the case.

About my family and Disney profits, we bought into DVC the week we met David, have bought more points and visit regularly. Mickey is making a buck of us and we are happy to have a buck made off us for a quality product.

As quality slips so will what they make from us.

See: http://badshoe.com/david_&_isaac.htm

 

[barnum42]

Zurg

Now that I've seen the photos on your site, I recognise Issac from when I attended the attraction. He was a great a performer and massaged my ego when he asked if the drawing I made in the academy was in fact a gift from an animator

Still no reply from Disney - proof I guess that management know it's a bad idea, but I guess personal greed overides a little decency and tradition.

 

[9oldmen]

What?

HennieBogan1966 doen't know what's going on and needs to read everybodys comments. The attraction isn't closing! The numbers have been good and from what I understand people have been buying the art. If you know something that we don't know then tell us. We don't go to the manager meetings like you do.

On Sunday I met a guests that visits the site www.wdwmagic. I met his family and gave him a gift.....in the future he won't be able to get a drawing from a real Disney Artists. He and his daugthers were visiting from Jacksonville, FL. Once agaion thank you all for visiting us in our last week which will be soon lasdt days.

Yes, on the website of the Dunlap family I am the African American male standing with Dave.

Once again Hennie we respect your opinion.

 

[barnum42]

Yes, on the website of the Dunlap family I am the African American male standing with Dave.

Then let me thank you personally for the wonderful presentation I enjoyed on a previous visit.

Hope you stay on these boards and let us know how you get on outside of Disney. :wave:

 

[waltdisny]

9oldmen- Thank you.

There are many thing money can't buy, and what this attraction gives to people is one of them.

As Hennie missed the point, the attraction isn't closing, it's having it's soul sucked out. It would be far better if they did close it out-right, rather than making it into a cheap shadow of itself.

If you want to weigh the turnstyles vs. money argument, then you should consider what will happen next? I predict that the experience will be so poor that NO ONE will go. Then, yes, they will have a justification for closing it, which may be their end-game anyway.

There's a distinction between profit and greed, and in that margin lies respect for people, CM and Guests alike.

 

[barnum42]

There's a distinction between profit and greed, and in that margin lies respect for people, CM and Guests alike.

Very well put. It's an old expression, but Bean counters and certain management know the cost of everything, but the value of nothing.

 

[Master Yoda]

HennieBogan1966 doen't know what's going on and needs to read everybodys comments. The attraction isn't closing! The numbers have been good and from what I understand people have been buying the art. If you know something that we don't know then tell us. We don't go to the manager meetings like you do.

On Sunday I met a guests that visits the site www.wdwmagic. I met his family and gave him a gift.....in the future he won't be able to get a drawing from a real Disney Artists. He and his daugthers were visiting from Jacksonville, FL. Once agaion thank you all for visiting us in our last week which will be soon lasdt days.

Yes, on the website of the Dunlap family I am the African American male standing with Dave.

Once again Hennie we respect your opinion.

I am the father of the family that 9oldmen is referring to. I would like to say thank you very much for the art you gave my family. I guarded those drawings like they were my own child until we left the park later that evening. And to let you know the will be mounted, framed and cherished by my family forever. Also I don’t throw the word “art” around lightly but what you do is truly art. Your work truly inspires people, like I had mentioned to you if I had met you when I was a kid I would have followed my dream of becoming a Disney animator. I met another of your colleges at the animation studio and I can tell you guys don’t deserve the treatment you are being given. The animation team has had a profound effect on my family’s lives as well as many others. Disney has lost sight of what made it great. Most of Disney is all smoke and mirrors, and that’s fine, but the animators are one of the few “real” things that Disney has. We can only hope that the new CEO of Disney fires every ignorant, short sited, bean counting suit and will start letting the creative minds at Disney make the decisions, providing they haven’t gotten rid of all of them yet.

 

[Zurg]

The animation team has had a profound effect on my family’s lives as well as many others. Disney has lost sight of what made it great. Most of Disney is all smoke and mirrors, and that’s fine, but the animators are one of the few “real” things that Disney has.

:sohappy: :sohappy:

Very well said.

 

[9oldmen]

You Guys and Gals are Awesome!

Thank you so much for your support. You're making this very easy for us. We talk about you all everyday at work!

Barnum42 mentioned that the presentation was nice that I gave...I'm a big critic of myself and my colleagues are as well. We've bee working 6-7 days a week for 2 years.
We have four artists working this attraction and we run 11 min to 15 min dispatches doing both, Drawn To Animation and Animation Academy back to back.
I want to let you know this because the shows may get weak or lazy for the simple fact that as soon as the exit doors close a new group of guest come in for us to entertain. By 4pm we're ready to choke Mushu (laugh!!!)!

We do the Drawn To Animation part3x's in a row and the Animation Academy 2x's in a row. Once we finish DTA we get over to AA and start working. it's not digging ditches but it's a strain on you(5 shows in a row).
At the end of the day 4 people are producing over 80 shows in one day. An entertainment person would be producing no more than 5-10 shows a day!

We've been doing this since the tour opened in 1996.
I just wanted to let you all know what we've been doing all these years and I also wanted you to know how the company has been taking advantage of us for a long time.
Matter of fact we're still working 6-7 10hr or longer days and since they've given us the bad news the company nor our managers have given us time to find new jobs. They are continuing to use us untill we're empty. But we're going to be there for you all and give you our best untill the last day....So please excuse us if our shows aren't that crisp. Love Ya and Take Care!

 

[barnum42]

You will be missed - at least by the public if not the bean counters and suits. Hope all the team will be able to post good news of new jobs found in the not too distant future :wave:

 

[speck76]

I missed some....most...of the conversation here, but I read it all, and I am confused. Please correct me where I am wrong.

The people that are being let go are employed as "animators" for WDC....correct?

The animators do not really animate, or work on current productions, since the studio was closed....correct?

The animators handle both the Animation Acadamy and the Drawn to Animation segment of the tour....correct?

Ok....if I have this all correct, I will give my $.02.

I think it is nice to have a true "animator" teaching the Animation Acadamy segment of the tour....it is nice for the guests, and it keeps the integrity of what the attraction is all about.

I am not so sure why an animator is needed for the Drawn to Animation segment, as the majority of that segment is scripted and talking with a large screen......

As an animator, you have a great skill, one that most people do not have. I would think you would feel disappointed or underemployed as an "attractions worker"......you have creativity, you have skill, you have talent, and reading a script/talking with a screen does not really exercise the limits of your talents.

I never like to see anyone out of a job, but I can't really agree that someone hired and paid like an animator is needed for both parts of this attraction.

 

[barnum42]

Speck, I think it's the magic and awe that was generated with visitors that they had the opportunity to a genuine weaver of the Disney Magic.

The tales on this thread of kids being inspired by chatting to the animators is an example of this. It's something they won't experience talking to someone who knows how to trace.

Yes the Mushu presentation could be done by anyone with a little flair, but the interation with the guests talking to a genuine animator can't.

 

[HennieBogan1966]

Dear 9

First, I would like to Thank You for your very enlightening and polite comments made in response to mine.

Next, I would like to respond to yours. While I may not be currently employed by The Disney Co., I do have some experience with having worked for them, as well as my Wife. In addition, I do have some 14 years of retail experience, which, I believe, gives me some insight into how businesses TEND to be run.

While I WILL agree with you that hand drawn animation holds a special place in the history of Disney, I can certainly understand why Disney is moving away from it as a MAJOR contributing factor in their newly created animated full length features. I don't doubt one bit that a lot of guests will be disappointed at this current direction of the company. And I wish this move could be reversed. But as I said earlier, things do change.

Do I like the seasonal operating hours of rides/attractions? NO!!! Do I understand it from a business perspective. CERTAINLY. It is unfortunate that your group is being displaced. Feel fortunate that you have been given some warning on this one. Think of those out there who don't get that benefit.

As for not getting the time to look for work, call me when you get to work for a company that does allow you time for that.

As for animated art being very popular at the parks, I don't doubt that as well. But, I'm going to hazard a guess that Disney has looked at the fact that they can sell this product just as well thru shops, as to have an attraction where you can get the "signed" version.

As for being offered lesser positions within the company, I can only say that you DID get an offer. Albeit, not what you would like. I don't blame you if you feel insulted by this, or feel treated unfaily. Losing your job, certainly one you love so much doing, is always disheartening.

But I tend to look at it this way:

Those of you who are being displaced are VERY talented, and have meant something VERY important, not only to the company, but to thousands, if not millions, of guests. And showing strength during adversity breeds success.

I don't like seeing it happen to anyone, but I am only saying that I understand it from a business perspective.

In the end, that's what Disney is. A business.

Good Luck to those of you are part of this terrible situation. I wish you the very best of luck and hope that you find even better situations for yourselves in the future.

 

[ClemsonTigger]

Yes and No

Hennie - I can follow you for the most part and agree with your business logic, but, there are some fundamental differences here, the ones that make Eisner and his recently departed DL flunkies the demons they are here.

Disney is a UNIQUE business that blends "business proper" with artistry, dreams, imagination, wonder and magic. Those items, like emotion don't translate well to a spreadsheet, and don't easily get dollar values assigned to them. That is why ME delivered with some of the best profits last year and was all but stoned at the stockholders meeting last year. The things that make Disney Disney are provided by CM's (not staff), imagineers (not engineers), artists, performers, dreamers. These rare talent are what brought DL and WDW into existance, they are what breathed life into steel and concrete and to give these places a heart that does not exist in any other major park. It is this heart that I (we?) feel is being removed here, for the sake of a few dollars.