Are Disney execs looking at the success of cars land to create future projects on that scale?

[WDW1974]

Some interesting reading here ... and not sure how many posts IN A ROW! I want to respond to.

But Tony certainly appeared to be heading out the door at various times dating back to Y2K ... I don't call him Teflon Tony for nothing.

I am almost afraid to put out what I know since it appears some folks have my posts catalogued (I don't even do that myself and I'm known for the size of my ... um ... ah ... uhmm ... ego!), almost.

I will only state that Tony is in a bit different position than others who were gently shoved into retirement, despite the undying love and drool of fanbois, like Dave and Marty. He has some considerable sway the others lack and, if he chooses to wield it, Disney is not going to be looking very good. I guess the best way of putting it would be to state that when you're at a company for decades, it's always a good idea to collect a list.

I don't know how this thread became a discussion of Tony, though. I expect he'll retire when he's ready ... really ready, unlike the others.

Besides, I don't think anyone at Disney -- that would include lame-duck Iger -- wants to John Lasseter off and forcing Tony out would do just that.

 

[WDW1974]

I'm sure they do, but DCA was in need of something like a billion dollar makeover just to get it up to some kind of Disney Parks standard. Attendance was, relative to other Disney Parks, pathetic. I doubt the executives feel the pressure to infuse that sort of capital when looking at WDW's numbers. I think that FLE and Avatarland is it for expansion, but I also believe that as we approach the 50th of MK, money will be put into all WDW's theme parks to improve what is there.

I think it is flat out PATHETIC that fans (and I'm not picking on you because I've heard this tossed out by many) want to talk about WDW's 50th when we are in the 40th year right now.

That's akin to certain politicians who decided they weren't happy with the last election and would rather let the USA flounder and Americans suffer then compromise one bit and were talking about the 2012 election back in 11/08.

I sure as hell am not willing to sit here quietly and say ''Sure, Disney, you can do little or nothing at WDW for the next decade, so long as you start adding and improving a little bit before you have some giant marketing campaign to shill WDW's 50th in 2021.''

All four parks are stale and have been seriously neglected since last century, they need immediate help. And, no, until we see a change in leadership at the company (i.e no more Iger/Staggs/Rasulo and their minions) that simply won't happen.

But, hey, I can't wait to get close to naked and frolic in that new fountain with my young friends!

 

[WDW1974]

Didn't you say something about 'erectile dysfunction' in an earlier post. Oh wait, I'm confusing posts. My bad...carry on.

Yes, I did.

Good thing I dropped the Pixie Dust addiction as I never have any trouble rising to the occasion
... like when Disney opens Dueling Dumbos ... or announces another D23 event.

 

[WDW1974]

Notice that I have several posts in a row. I learned that from '74.

I am a great leader!

 

[WDW1974]

Being shown the door/pushed out.. and putting off retirement due to a new toy... are pretty polar opposites. Idling them hoping they leave is more what you are inferring. But the talk in the summer of 2010.. the 'certified rumors' were Baxter would be gone in Jan 2011. There was nothing for him to do, nothing on the horizon, and there wasn't room at the top with the other power brokers.

Talks of TL and Frontierland all are older than that really.. just now have been picking up steam in the last year and of course the newer inferences that at least one of those areas will be green-lit for expansion in the coming years. So while he may finally have new toys in DL's chest to develop - that is still very different than what was being preached prior.

Now, others were more firm on the timing while WDW1974 was more 'just a matter of when..'

Things change.

That's just the simplest most accurate explanation possible ... although Tony will (eventually) retire and it is just a matter of when ...

I hope someone shows Tony this thread!

 

[WDW1974]

I am not really interested in whether WDW1974 was right or wrong with his predictions - even though he likes to call himself a spirit, I don't think he really has supernatural powers, I never expected him to be a 100% correct fortune-teller.

Oh, so little faith. The Spirit is all knowing and never wrong. Didn't you get the memo?
As to supernatural powers, you've never seen someone make a cheeseburger and loaded baked potato disappear, have you? I just did that.

But, no, alas there are days when the crystal ball is cloudy (yes, I should probably see a doctor about that!) and I readily admit my 'psychic readings on TWDC' aren't as on target as I would like.

And, people don't like to hear this, sometimes circumstances change. Much like the Fantasyland project, which my good friend Frank in New Mexico will tell you I didn't see coming, I think Tony's timeline has changed (obviously).

But what is really interesting in Lee's posts is the "New Toy" for Tony Baxter which he keeps mentioning. I would guess this is one of the DL projects that have been mentioned in the recent days?

To me it sounds that Tony Baxter having a "new toy" hopefully will translate into us as theme park visitors getting a great new attraction!

Yes ... and yes (although I am not sure how much involvement Tony will actually have in the project ... for instance, you can be the designer, but not the producer, which is a day-to-day long hours type of deal that I am not sure Tony is up to at this point in his life.)

 

[yeti]

Twitter is no different than online blogs or forums. Gotta trust the source. Misinformation spreads just as bad here as there. At least on twitter most people only RT so at least you can trace things back.

Maybe I'm biased because I see Twitter as one of the most useless inventions of the past century.

Twitter seems spontaneous. Misinformation spreads quickly here and there, but I'm willing to bet it's quicker there. I'm also willing to bet that more thought goes into even the most idiotic of forum posts than your average tweet. And that's not even taking into account the <140 character limit.

I place twitter in the same category as Youtube comments and Facebook statuses: garbage.

 

[Tim_4]

Or is this type of land a one time shot?
If they get a better then expected return on investment on cars land....do you think we will see other big ticket projects at Florida and California?

Cars Land was only half about return on investment. Equally important was creating a relief valve for Disneyland and trying to balance the two parks. I don't have exact figures but the DCA expansion (which includes everything they've done in the last five years) is estimated to have cost $1.1 billion. Fantasyland will roll in at about $400-500 million. People on the forums here underestimate Fantasyland because something about it just doesn't feel particularly over-the-top. I might agree with that sentiment but I really believe that FLE will significantly change the way guests experience the Magic Kingdom by creating a relief valve for the crowds. NGE will have a price tag of about $2 billion. No major brick-and-mortar projects there but NGE will make subtle yet significant changes to every part of the WDW experience. Finally, I'd be very surprised if Avatarland is any less impressive than Radiator Springs (which SHOULD be the proper name of "Cars Land").

Side note: The over-the-top success that Cars Land has had so far is because cast members and passholders were entering the summer blackout period so EVERYONE and their brother was there for opening weekend.

 

[flynnibus]

I place twitter in the same category as Youtube comments and Facebook statuses: garbage.

Than you are following the wrong people

 

[RSoxNo1]

That was true to a point, as I have also heard.
Baxter is in a rather unique situation, one which the details of are likely not appropriate for message board discussion.

In its simplest form, he is eligible to retire, and had plans to do so. Until that new toy was delivered on a platter.

Well, no way Al Lutz spills the beans on whatever it is your referring to...
Any chance of something like WRE in Frontierland in Disneyland?

Yes, I did.
Good thing I dropped the Pixie Dust addiction as I never have any trouble rising to the occasion
... like when Disney opens Dueling Dumbos ... or announces another D23 event.

Have you read, “Our Kingdom of Dust” yet?

Side note: The over-the-top success that Cars Land has had so far is because cast members and passholders were entering the summer blackout period so EVERYONE and their brother was there for opening weekend.

There’s some validity to this. Crowds dropped off from Thursday to Friday when blackout dates were applied. However relative to the same time period from last year the attendance numbers were still way up. I wouldn’t be surprised to see a 1-1.5 million increase in attendance.

 

[Lee]

Well, no way Al Lutz spills the beans on whatever it is your referring to...
Any chance of something like WRE in Frontierland in Disneyland?

A chance of something "like"?
Yes, but don't jump to any conclusions.

 

[RSoxNo1]

A chance of something "like"?
Yes, but don't jump to any conclusions.

 

[flavious27]

Well we can only hope for that at wdw. I would say that avaland was approved because of carsland getting good buzz and would be pushed up or atleast on schedule with how much money dca is getting.

 

[Beholder]

If I had to guess, I would imagine that the success of Carsland (I wished they'd called it Radiator Springs) and to a certain extent, HP, would be better for WDW than worse. In a sane and reasonable world, only positive, good things will come of this. Updated attractions, fast tracking new things, a true investment in what they have.

I like to stay positive. Far too much negative in the world.

 

[coachwnh]

Or is this type of land a one time shot?
If they get a better then expected return on investment on cars land....do you think we will see other big ticket projects at Florida and California?

I guess they already are with fantasyland expansion and avatar land....but those were already green lit.

Be interesting to see if cars land is a smash hit, if Disney starts to really get creative with ride concepts in American parks.

I have to say, we spent a week in DL in June and Carsland was absolutely amazing! It was our first family trip to DL and my second (first in about 20 years). Seeing how amazing the entire area was was mind-blowing. I know others on here have asked if they should build the same in WDW. I hope not!! it was great to see different attractions, but still be in a Disney park. If they choose to build bigger and better in WDW, thats great. But, I hope if and when they do it, its something new and original. And if WDW doesnt add anything other than Avatar in AK in the next 10 years, Im sure I'll be fine with that too.

 

[Jedeye80]

We have all got to hope that carlsand gives TDO the incentive to make Pandora as it should be cos I think on a night walking round DAK with the ground and foliage lighting up around you would be stunning.

 

[Patricia Melton]

We have all got to hope that carlsand gives TDO the incentive to make Pandora as it should be cos I think on a night walking round DAK with the ground and foliage lighting up around you would be stunning.

As someone who thought the Avatar movie was pretty dumb story-wise, I would be so fascinated with an area of DAK that would be set on an alien planet. I would love it.

I don't gamble, but I love going to Las Vegas every few years just to see the neon lights and the spectacle at night. It's just so gorgeous, even if it's just cheesy Vegas signage.

Imagine how gorgeous a beautiful forest of bioluminescent plants and animals would be at DAK? They could build a GORGEOUS high end restaurant there that could possibly be the most romantic restaurant ever built, with a view of those gorgeous lights. It could be incredible. For people who don't care about the Avatar movie, the scenic potential of this land is still very impressive.

 

[Jim Handy]

I have to say, we spent a week in DL in June and Carsland was absolutely amazing! It was our first family trip to DL and my second (first in about 20 years). Seeing how amazing the entire area was was mind-blowing. I know others on here have asked if they should build the same in WDW. I hope not!! it was great to see different attractions, but still be in a Disney park. If they choose to build bigger and better in WDW, thats great. But, I hope if and when they do it, its something new and original. And if WDW doesnt add anything other than Avatar in AK in the next 10 years, Im sure I'll be fine with that too.

You're fine with an outdated FUTURE World?

World Showcase with nothing brand new in years?

A Studio park that is studio-less and an absolute mess?

Magic Kingdom with a future-less TOMORROWland?

Empty plot of land in the middle of a "premier" shopping, dining and entertainemnt district?

A transportation that's in shambles? With monorails that are so poor they have to build additional bus stops for the monorail resorts because the monorails are down more often than not?

You are completely entitled to your opinion. But I think you are wrong. Wether some people here believe it or not, a resort like WDW has basic needs. These needs need to be filled on a constant cycle. It takes a lot of money, but WDW makes a lot of money. It takes creativity, but WDI has proven they can still do great things. Avatar isn't going to fix things for the entire resort. And I completely expect that WDW will be perfect by the 50th in 2021. That may seem like a long way out, but in a world where an attraction can take a couple years to build and WDW has so many things to be done, it's not too far away to think about. So when I hear of no long term plan (And that's the problem, there is no direction...), I get frustrated. I just have to hope things change with a rush d ambition as a flood of cash.

So step back and ask yourself if Avatar is all you'd really want to see in WDW.

 

[Patricia Melton]

You're fine with an outdated FUTURE World?

World Showcase with nothing brand new in years?

A Studio park that is studio-less and an absolute mess?

Magic Kingdom with a future-less TOMORROWland?

Empty plot of land in the middle of a "premier" shopping, dining and entertainemnt district?

A transportation that's in shambles? With monorails that are so poor they have to build additional bus stops for the monorail resorts because the monorails are down more often than not?

You are completely entitled to your opinion. But I think you are wrong. Wether some people here believe it or not, a resort like WDW has basic needs. These needs need to be filled on a constant cycle. It takes a lot of money, but WDW makes a lot of money. It takes creativity, but WDI has proven they can still do great things. Avatar isn't going to fix things for the entire resort. And I completely expect that WDW will be perfect by the 50th in 2021. That may seem like a long way out, but in a world where an attraction can take a couple years to build and WDW has so many things to be done, it's not too far away to think about. So when I hear of no long term plan (And that's the problem, there is no direction...), I get frustrated. I just have to hope things change with a rush d ambition as a flood of cash.

So step back and ask yourself if Avatar is all you'd really want to see in WDW.

I'd love to see:

* "Tomorrowland" acquire a vibrant and permanent soul. By that I mean, finally figure out what the "Tomorrow" in the land is supposed to mean and make it a permanent thing that does not become dated after a few years. The key to that is to pick an era and theme the land to what people at that time thought "Tomorrow" would look like. The most logical thing to do would be to utilize the fact that Main Street is the jumping off point to Tomorrowland. Main Street is Victorian themed...so there's a very natural, logical, and beautiful chance to look at Tomorrowland as what someone walking down Victorian Main Street would have thought the year 2300 would have looked like...which would have been 400 years in that person's future.

* Jules Verne theming/steampunk is the logical choice here. Folding in things from the old Discovery Bay abandoned land would be great too. There could be a really inspired transitional area where you come off Main Street and there's this Bridge to the Future taking you into a Vernean Tomorrowland....and then the transition from Tomorrowland to Fantasyland makes sense too as you'd really be going from a Vernean Tomorrowland to an Alice in Wonderland attraction like the Teacups (or Alice ride at DLR), and the area around that could reflect the transition from the Victorian view of the future to the Victorian fantasy of Alice. There'd be a logical and beautiful theme transition on both entrances to Tomorrowland then.

* Tomorrowland as the 60s' vision of the future or the 80s' vision of the future or the 2012 vision of the future will keep failing...but the vision of the future imagined by the Victorian people living on Main Street is kind of timeless. We'll never achieve this but it's so beautiful and full of possibilities that it would make a gorgeous and inspired land that has rich Streetmosphere potential.

As a last note on all of this, I am kind of reminded of how Disney had to yank all the "extreme sports" stuff out of DCA and all those "hip" pop culture references from Hollywoodland over there...because they got stale so quickly. BVS is such a success because it's a deep theme with great Streetmosphere potential. A steampunk/Victorian Future for Tomorrowland would have that sort of potential too. It would be very Disney. I can very easily see men in bowler hats with steampunk gadgetry in their costumes walking the land to staff an attraction the same way I see the Jungle Cruise skippers walking to their posts in Adventureland. Adventureland is supposed to be set in the 30s or so. Frontierland is the late 1800s, pre-Victorian. Let Tomorrowland be the year 2300 as imagined by the people who lived on Main Street...and embrace the steampunk theming that has developed into its own subculture in the last decade or so. I think the 1930s theming of Adventureland is gorgeous and won't be going anywhere. I think what they did with the 1920s at BVS is also gorgeous.

I think it's finally time to nail down a Tomorrowland theming that can be an instant classic and won't need to ever really be updated again -- because it won't go out of style and will always convey that image of a "future" with space and mechanical touches.

 

[coachwnh]

You're fine with an outdated FUTURE World?

World Showcase with nothing brand new in years?

A Studio park that is studio-less and an absolute mess?

Magic Kingdom with a future-less TOMORROWland?

Empty plot of land in the middle of a "premier" shopping, dining and entertainemnt district?

A transportation that's in shambles? With monorails that are so poor they have to build additional bus stops for the monorail resorts because the monorails are down more often than not?

You are completely entitled to your opinion. But I think you are wrong. Wether some people here believe it or not, a resort like WDW has basic needs. These needs need to be filled on a constant cycle. It takes a lot of money, but WDW makes a lot of money. It takes creativity, but WDI has proven they can still do great things. Avatar isn't going to fix things for the entire resort. And I completely expect that WDW will be perfect by the 50th in 2021. That may seem like a long way out, but in a world where an attraction can take a couple years to build and WDW has so many things to be done, it's not too far away to think about. So when I hear of no long term plan (And that's the problem, there is no direction...), I get frustrated. I just have to hope things change with a rush d ambition as a flood of cash.

So step back and ask yourself if Avatar is all you'd really want to see in WDW.

We Spend between 50 and 60 days each year in WDW and I have yet to leave bored or disappointed. When that happens, I'll look for something bigger and better. But right now, Im not. And remember, so many people are coming ONCE in their life. Others may be there twice in 10, 15, or 20 years. We are there all of the time, so things might bother us (or some of us) more than others. Im not looking for change just for change. I kind of like having some things stay the same. Sorry