Anyone know how they pick people for "additional security screening" at the airport??

[mkt]

OK no offense but don't you think you are putting a little to much into this?

There are many others outside of the confines of this message board that agree with my view. Many who I think are even more extreme than me. There are those who refuse to show any ID to even fly. I am not that extreme.... I will show my passport or library of congress reader card (both US Government ID with my photo and full name. I am leery of showing anyone my address).

know the security processes can get tiring and annoying but i would rather be annoyed and live to bit*$ about it than be died because some terrorist put some thing in his shoe and killed someone we live in a different world since 9-11 it sucks but its true.

If you believe this, then the terrorists have won. Accept the threat as being there, and be proactive in your search to stop the terrorists. But nothing we do will make this threat cease to be. It will always be there, and inconveniencing the traveling public will do nothing to stop this. Several TSA and DHS officials have publicly acknowledged that nothing has been accomplished by having shoe carnivals at airports... so why continue?

your comment that you view it as harassment is just a little to strong for something so little as taking off you shoes, would you think it was harassment if your best friend made you take off your shoes when you came in her house

I do view it as harrasment, at the airport. At my friends house, it's her house - her rules. The airports are not run by the TSA, but by local aviation administrations and private companies.... and I am almost certain that they could care less whether or not you keep your shoes on at security.

In fact, I would be extremely happy if some aviation authorities were to evict the TSA and replace them with private companies that may actually know something about security.

lets face it traveling can be tiring and annoying but being that nutty passenger that makes a scene is just embarrassing to everyone

I've never made a scene

I just tell them calmly and politely that I will not be removing my shoes. If they wish to inspect them, they have to swab them.

 

[wannab@dis]

I'm in the once a week crowd (albeit, with multiple connections, and a round trip passage), and I generally fly with sandals on. Ones that need not be removed, that aren't within the TSA profile. Ultimately, to me, it comes down to keeping the few bad TSO's in check.... these are people with no law enforcement authority or power, that want people to believe they do. I have witnessed them on more than one occasion, violate citizens' rights to privacy, and essentially make their own laws on the spot.

I know that I am not obligated by law or policy to remove my shoes, and as long as it remains that way, I am not going to. If they want to inspect my shoes, they can swab them and send me on my way, but I will not remove them. It is my right, and one I am surprised that people are chastising me for practicing.

Don't you think there are better things to get upset about? I just don't see the big deal here. There's no violation of privacy rights involved.

When you argue about taking off your shoes at the security line, it's just causing more problems for you and other passengers.

 

[mkt]

If you volunteer, there is no violation... but if the TSA is giving you no choice, the violation exists.

I don't want to argue, and it was never my intention to argue in this thread. However, this is something I am passionate about, and I would appreciate if you guys would respect that. I have never once been critical about anything anyone else on this board has been passionate about (indifferent is another thing), so I would appreciate the same courtesy.

Thanks.

 

[hrmom26]

If you volunteer, there is no violation... but if the TSA is giving you no choice, the violation exists.

I don't want to argue, and it was never my intention to argue in this thread. However, this is something I am passionate about,

"this is something i am passionate about"
this is what you have chosen to passionate about? something you have put so much emotion and time? i am sorry that taking off your shoes upsets you so i will be quit now,:zipit: but first let me say you seem like someone who is educated and it seems a shame to waste all that passion and knowledge on shoes. instead of being passionate about many small things i roll it all into one thing i feel i can make a bigger difference that way i guess every person is different
no hard feelings i never meant to make you feel like we were personally attacking you, we just didn't agree with you. just like the associate in the airport is just doing there job as they see it should be be done. they don't no you and will not remember you seconds after you go threw but you have remembered them much longer. again sorry to have upset you so

 

[jozzmenia]

If you believe this, then the terrorists have won. Accept the threat as being there, and be proactive in your search to stop the terrorists.

I may be alone on this, but I have trouble believing that the primary goal of the terrorists was to get people to concede to shoe searches in the airport...:lookaroun

I don't think they would be as happy to see me hand over my shoes without a fuss, as they would be to see someone in an uproar and mad at the government over something so minor as removing shoes...:lookaroun

 

[jozzmenia]

"this is something i am passionate about"
this is what you have chosen to passionate about? something you have put so much emotion and time? i am sorry that taking off your shoes upsets you so i will be quit now,:zipit: but first let me say you seem like someone who is educated and it seems a shame to waste all that passion and knowledge on shoes. instead of being passionate about many small things i roll it all into one thing i feel i can make a bigger difference that way i guess every person is different
no hard feelings i never meant to make you feel like we were personally attacking you, we just didn't agree with you. just like the associate in the airport is just doing there job as they see it should be be done. they don't no you and will not remember you seconds after you go threw but you have remembered them much longer. again sorry to have upset you so

indeed good points.

i am passionate about helping neglected children and bringing more people back into the church. i am passionate about my boyfriend . i am passionate about taking care of my family. i am passionate about going to orlando whenver possible ... taking off my shoes and putting them back on - not at the top of my "passionate" list...however, to each his own.

i'm not critiquing any one poster either. i am only responding to posts on a message board and sharing my opinion. my point was that i am totally baffled as to why someone would let this get to them so much when there are so many other things to worry about. i was simply curious. i know that like i said, to each his own, but just because someone has a right to feel a certain way, i don't think that means i can't wonder "why"...

 

[jozzmenia]

I was ok with things until I watched the idiot toss the bin my laptop was in around. When I commented to the guy about it I was shot multiple dirty looks and could feel several security officers inch closer. :lookaroun Gotta love flying.

Thank u, now THAT is something worth getting into a tizzy over. :lol:

 

[bouncingfigment]

Just in case anyone is interested...

From the TSA website:

Am I wearing the right shoes?
You are NOT REQUIRED to remove your shoes before you enter the walk-through metal detector. However, TSA screeners may encourage you to remove them before entering the metal detector as many types of footwear will require additional screening even if the metal detector DOES NOT alarm.
Footwear that screeners will encourage you to remove because they are likely to require additional screening:

• Boots
• Platform shoes (including platform flip-flops)
• Footwear with a thick sole or heel (including athletic shoes)
• Footwear containing metal (including many dress shoes)

Footwear that screeners are less likely to suggest you remove includes:

• "Beach" flip-flops
• Thin-soled sandals (without metal)

TIP: Since a thorough screening includes x-ray inspection of footwear, wearing footwear that is easily removable helps to speed you through the screening process.

 

[maelstrom]

I don't think MKT is passionate about shoes. I think he's passionate about his right to choose not to take off his shoes at the airport.

TSA said to take our shoes off. All must obey. Resistance is futile. (This is the kind of attitude I see from some people. People are scared of and intimidated by the TSA. There is no need to be. It's okay to not take your shoes off and exercise that right.)

 

[Victoria]

If you volunteer, there is no violation... but if the TSA is giving you no choice, the violation exists.

I don't want to argue, and it was never my intention to argue in this thread. However, this is something I am passionate about, and I would appreciate if you guys would respect that. I have never once been critical about anything anyone else on this board has been passionate about (indifferent is another thing), so I would appreciate the same courtesy.

Thanks.

Very well put. You have yet to do anything but state your feelings about the TSA, shoe removal, etc. I apologize if anything I have said in this thread can be mistaken for criticism. I do happen to agree with you on some of your views about the TSAs misuse of power at times. However, to call it a passion of mine would be taking it a bit far. To each their own.
I don't care why Mkt has chosen the TSA to be passionate about, just as I am sure that he doesn't care why I am passionate about collecting Barbies. One of the great things about living in this country is the ability to have individual views/passions and not have to explain them to anyone else.

 

[TAC]

Am I missing something? That analogy just doesn't make sense to me...:lookaroun

As I have already mentioned....

Why does the TSA "suggest" that you remove your footwear? Because some guy tried to light his shoes on fire during a flight.

So...I ask again...

If a woman had tried to light her bra on fire onboard an aircraft, while in flight, would the TSA then "suggest" that women remove their bras for extra screening ?

The problem with a government agency is that most of the time, the workers in that government agency have the mental capacity of a sloth. If the machine light is green, then you are ok. If it lights red, then you are not.

True story: I was in the security line at an airport several weeks ago. The gentleman in front of me put his carry on backpack in the tray, and proceeded to walk toward the metal detector with one of those large plastic refillable coffee mugs. The one agent said he had to put the cup in the tray. He said it was not spill-proof. So she said he could not put it in the tray. As he was trying to finish the coffee, the other agent manning the metal detector came over. He and the other agent proceeded to have a verbal discussion as to what kind of coffee mug was ok and what was not.

Second story, from USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/today/2005-06-22-sky-archivejune21_x.htm

A passenger at Dallas/Fort Worth (DFW) had his Audi car key confiscated by airport security screeners, who insisted the key was a "prohibited item." The trouble seems to have started because of passenger Nathan Rau's standard-issue car key for his Audi, writes Joe Sharkey, business travel columnist for The New York Times (free registration). The new Audi keys actually hold the ignition key inside a fashionable holder that's designed to minimize damage to the carrier's pockets. When ready to start the car, the driver pushes a button on the 2-inch holder and the key slides out. Of course, to the screeners at DFW, Rau's key seemed awfully similar to a switchblade. They ran it through the x-ray machine three times, before Rau says he was told: ""Well, sir, that's a switchblade style, and that's a prohibited item. We're going to have to confiscate that." In addition to the $300 Rau says he had to spend to get a duplicate key from his car dealership, the incident raises a key complaint of frequent travelers: security procedures that seem to vary widely from airport to airport. Rau says he hadn't previously had problems with the key at other airports

And again from the USA Today: http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/today/2005-04-27-sky-archiveapril26_x.htm

The Transportation Security Administration (TSA) has become a favorite target of critics, and it's no wonder writes business travel columnist Joe Sharkey of The New York Times (free registration). Travelers face inconsistencies from one airport to another, ranging from rules on banned items to whether or not shoes must be removed. Calling the latter "the agency's Catch-22 policy," Sharkey writes: "You do not have to remove them, the policy says, but if you do not, you will be ordered off to the secondary inspection area, where you do have to take them off." And, of course, there are the changing policies about what's banned in the first place (now lighters are banned, but knitting needles are back on the OK list). And, Sharkey notes, more than two dozen TSA screeners have been arrested over the past two years for stealing from fliers' luggage. And in an episode from what Sharkey calls his list of "TSA Follies," he tells of a uniformed pilot who had to wait 10 minutes at security while screeners poured over each item in his carry-on luggage. What took so long for security to clear the pilot? "They told me they had to make sure I wasn't carrying anything that would allow me to take over an airplane," the pilot told Sharkey.


So what is my "problem" you may ask? I don't have a problem with security. I work for a company that takes a great amount of pride in security, as do I. What is do have a problem with is when people cannot make informed decisions with regard to people's property, whether or not a plastic coffee mug is allowed in a plastic tray, or double checking to make sure that a pilot does not have anything in his carry on that he could use to take over a plane. Those are ill-informed "decisions" that could have damaged a laptop, cost a traveler $300 for a key to his car, showed how ill informed security could be by having a discussion with another "security officer" within earshot of a passenger, and could not figure out for himself that the carry-on bag that he was searching though belonged to a PILOT.

 

[barnum42]

A multi-page in-depth argument about the injustice of slipping your shoes off at a security check point? Think it's time I unsubscribe from this thread.

Goodbye and thanks for playing :wave:

 

[mkt]

I don't think MKT is passionate about shoes. I think he's passionate about his right to choose not to take off his shoes at the airport.

Not quite, but close

 

[TTATraveler]

I agree with the inconsistencies in the TSA from airport to airport and find it to be a major flaw of the administration. Every US airport should be uniform in its procedures, but it is far from it. I also don't feel that taking your shoes off accomplishes much other than to slow the line down and clog up the area outside the security checkpoint where little room is given for you to put your shoes back on and gather your belongings. Luckily I haven't had any problems with TSA at Newark or Orlando.

 

[mkt]

I may be alone on this, but I have trouble believing that the primary goal of the terrorists was to get people to concede to shoe searches in the airport...:lookaroun

Not that specifically... but to shake our method of thinking and to instill fear of us. And to an extent, the shoe carnivals are that.

Had it never happened, or had it happened and we not let it affect us as deeply as it had (or had Richard Reid never been born), the shoe carnival wouldn't be there.

 

[mkt]

Luckily I haven't had any problems with TSA at Newark

Really?? Newark and Las Vegas have the worst reputations among travelers.

 

[TTATraveler]

Really?? Newark and Las Vegas have the worst reputations among travelers.

I only travel once or twice a year, but so far so good at Newark, at least at Terminal C. They did send me through machine that shoots the puffs of air at you in Terminal A, but that is about it. Even that was no big deal since your shoes could stay on. Newark seems to have shoe fiascos, but I nicely ask when I get up to the xray and once they see what I have on they let me through.

 

[jaylenofan86]

I commented on that in my last post, wondering why people don't check their suitcase. When I think of carry on, i think of a bad with magazines, snacks, headphones, cards - i.e. things u need to access on the plane. I figured it was because people were impatient and didn't want to wait on their luggage. The thing is, I've NEVER seen the baggage claim take "forever". The longest I've waited from the time I got to the baggage claim area was 10 minutes (which is admittedly about the point that I start to grow impatient myself :brick: )
Well, there was the one time I went to Paris and everyone's bag came but mine and I waited and waited and no one came and said anything. After about 20 minutes I went searching for assistance and saw my suitcase sitting open and unattended outside an office (it had come open on the plane). So I just grabbed it, shut it, and left...
Anyway, the fact that people would rather stuff giant luggage on the plane than wait 10 minutes is a reflection of our impatient society I guess.

Well, I never check bags because I don't know if my bag is going to make it to me, I can get to the airport later, and I can take an eariler flight home if I want to. I carry on a bag within regs and I can pack a weeks worth of clothes in!

 

[jaylenofan86]

when you travel by plane once or twice a year, it's a minor annoyance.

When you travel by plane once or twice a month, it's an big annoyance.

When you travel by plance once or twice a week, it's a massive inconvenience.

I view it as harrasment, being forced to remove your shoes, and it's something that I know I don't have to do, so I won't. I am not one to give into a TSO's foot fetish.

I agree, I bet that Rob and myself fly more miles in a year than all of the posters in this thread combined. It is a big deal, have you ever read 1984? I feel like this is the first step at the government slowly taking away our rights. Also, has anyone since 9/11 been caught with a shoe bomb? NO! I'm more afraid of being blown out of the sky at takeoff/landing with a RPG than a shoe bomber being on the plane. The government always keeps fighting the last war than looking at the next war.....

 

[Victoria]

I agree, I bet that Rob and myself fly more miles in a year than all of the posters in this thread combined. It is a big deal, have you ever read 1984? I feel like this is the first step at the government slowly taking away our rights. Also, has anyone since 9/11 been caught with a shoe bomb? NO! I'm more afraid of being blown out of the sky at takeoff/landing with a RPG than a shoe bomber being on the plane. The government always keeps fighting the last war than looking at the next war.....

Eventually we will be living like that if things continue the way they are going. Big Brother he we come. Someone has to put their foot (with shoe) down somewhere. :lookaroun