Anyone else disappointed...that they expand FANTASYLAND?

[Tigerace81]

Dont know, but you have to admit people on both sides who constantly post in the thread just keep re-hashing their side of the argument.

 

[lebeau]

I really like this post, so I'll let you off the hook for lunch now.

Not going to disagree there. Princesses are certainly popular, but within a certain demographic. Having a nicer theme is great, no questions there. I'd personally rather see the money spent elsewhere, however.

I think people somewhat underestimate the appeal of the Disney Princesses (and the Disney Fairies which many seem to consider a failure). No doubt the primary appeal is to little girls.

According to Disney's financial report, the princesses are the number 1 franchise among girls 3-6 and fairies are #1 among girls 6-9. But, at least within the parks, their appeal is somewhat broader still.

I think the crux of most of the anti-FLE arguments is really in your last sentence. Anti-FLE posters would rather see the money spent elsewhere. Presumably on something that appeals more to their own demo.

Can't blame people for feeling that way. But at a certain point, you just kind of have to let it be someone else's turn, right?

That's the magic word, isn't it? "Cost-effective", or rather, the easy way out. Imagine how much capacity would be added by installing two E-tickets. That'd be something to get the droves of people excited- people who would not otherwise go to Disney World and see a princess meet n' greet.

I don't necessarily equate "cost effective" solutions with "the easy way out". Anywhere but a Disney forum, "cost effective" would be considered desirable.

Look, I don't want them to cheap out. What they build should live up to Disney standards. That means no cutting corners. But it doesn't mean that every project needs to include 2 e-tickets. A more modest project that helps alleivate the park's problems is preferable to nothing.

From a business perspective, it is also preferable to a lavish project that addresses the same issues but delivers less ROI. I know you all realize Disney is a business, so I won't bother pointing that out. (Ooops, sorry.)

Also, remember that what MK needs most right now is capacity. Not an attendance boost. You're proposal would get the "droves" excited to revisit MK. Disney needs the droves to go to AK or DHS, not MK.

The droves are already at MK. Disney needs added capacity so it doesn't have to turn the droves away. And Disney needs ways to keep them in the park longer presumably spending more money on princess dresses and souveniers. And since they are there, maybe stop and have a meal at one of the brand new dining options.

Agreed, but this still does not extenuate the fact that the Magic Kingdom needs E-tickets, but the Animal Kingdom and Studios are in a deeper crisis.

Again, I think it depends on what you mean by "need". Ideally, Disney could drop bank on all 4 parks. But realistically, MK is the park that is the least in need of a new e-ticket (except arguably Epcot). Until that changes, it's kind of pointless to talk about MK getting a new e-ticket. You're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

The original concept would have included more dining options. Plus, as insiders on the board here have said, the expansion isn't adding that much capacity to the parks. It certainly helps, but the problem will still exist.

I guess we'll have to wait and see. But a partial solution is better than no solution.

I wonder, if the original proposal were being built if we'd have a bunch of people complaining about all the unnecessary dining options.

Ultimately, when it comes down to how Disney spends their money, I look at it this way. We're all relatively uninformed. The only people with all of the financial info to make an informed decision are the ones who made it. So I'm assuming that whatever changes were made to the FLE proposal at least make financial sense.

(And yes, I realize it was this kind of thinking that tragically gutted the Space Mountain refurb. I'm hoping FLE turns out better than that since Disney is making a bigger deal of it. If FLE opens and it is half-arsed, I'll be the first to cry foul.)

As Lee said, put in an E-ticket, then build around that. Put Radiator Springs from DCA in Fantasyland...it would cost less than the FLE and provide an e-ticket as well as smaller C-tickets, plus dining options. (Of course, Carsland would totally clash with Fantasyland, but you get the idea.)

I get the idea.

Let me ask you guys this. What if FLE included more rides and fewer M&Gs, but it was all princesses and fairies? Would you be okay with that?

There are other demographics that aren't being well-serviced by Disney either, at least at the Magic Kingdom.

Such as?

Because in all honesty, I can't think of one other than thrill-seekers. MK has some rides to appeal to thrill seekers, but it was never intended to be a thrill park. Beyond that, I think little girls are the only ones being left out right now.

What about teenagers? College students? Young adults? Usually you only see them at EPCOT, where that parks seems to have been skewed towards E-ticket thrill rides. The FLE doesn't offer much for them.

I think you will see plenty of teenagers, college students and young adults in the FLE. Seniors too.

Will it appeal equally to all demos? No. But what does? There's already plenty of attractions to appeal to teenagers, college students and young adults. I see them at all the parks. Not just Epcot. :shrug:

Then again, I don't know the statistics or demographics of those that visit meet and greets, so I'll withdraw from the discussion. I will maintain, however, that (for my family, at least) the expansion doesn't really faze us.

I get that. But understand that there have been lots of additions to WDW that didn't really appeal to my family either.

Next year, the thrill seekers and Star Wars fans will get some love with Star Tours 2. After that, the princess and fairies fans get a turn. Then, who knows? I'm sure some future project will be more to your liking. And I promise not to complain if it's something that doesn't appeal to my family at all.

 

[lebeau]

Dont know, but you have to admit people on both sides who constantly post in the thread just keep re-hashing their side of the argument.

You must be new here. :wave:

 

[Tigerace81]

^ Thanks your only the 10th or 20th person to say that. I just had so many of these types of threads lately, mostly on my own website over Kentucky Kingdom closing. Its been between Six Flags Fan Boys, Park Employees and Park Fan Boys, and people who have no idea what theyre talking about but generally cant understand the truth.

Haha, at least we think alike regarding the FLE.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

The Villains concept has a lot less appeal than the princesses. The villains couldn't even support a character meal because they scared the kids. Meanwhile, princesses and fairies are bringing in over $6 billion a year combined.

Erm we are talking about children at which age here? 3? 4? They are scared from the villains?

 

[misterID]

I think people somewhat underestimate the appeal of the Disney Princesses (and the Disney Fairies which many seem to consider a failure). No doubt the primary appeal is to little girls.

I think the crux of most of the anti-FLE arguments is really in your last sentence. Anti-FLE posters would rather see the money spent elsewhere. Presumably on something that appeals more to their own demo.

Can't blame people for feeling that way. But at a certain point, you just kind of have to let it be someone else's turn, right?

Look, I don't want them to cheap out. What they build should live up to Disney standards. That means no cutting corners. But it doesn't mean that every project needs to include 2 e-tickets. A more modest project that helps alleivate the park's problems is preferable to nothing.

(And yes, I realize it was this kind of thinking that tragically gutted the Space Mountain refurb. I'm hoping FLE turns out better than that since Disney is making a bigger deal of it. If FLE opens and it is half-arsed, I'll be the first to cry foul.)

Because in all honesty, I can't think of one other than thrill-seekers. MK has some rides to appeal to thrill seekers, but it was never intended to be a thrill park. Beyond that, I think little girls are the only ones being left out right now.

Next year, the thrill seekers and Star Wars fans will get some love with Star Tours 2. After that, the princess and fairies fans get a turn. Then, who knows? I'm sure some future project will be more to your liking. And I promise not to complain if it's something that doesn't appeal to my family at all.

It's good that Fantasyland is getting expanded and a new attraction is coming. I think what's making people crazy is the 400-500 million dollar price tage on one 'D' ride clone from Disneyland and a bunch of meet and greets, when the other parks need so much.

I'm sure if FL got the expansion that I hear it was supposed to get it would really appeal to everyone and pretty much worth it. But its not. And it's not about not wanting to appeal to little girls (or mostly little girls) but not at the expense that sets back other expansions to other parks that could use that bread.

 

[lebeau]

^ Thanks your only the 10th or 20th person to say that. I just had so many of these types of threads lately, mostly on my own website over Kentucky Kingdom closing. Its been between Six Flags Fan Boys, Park Employees and Park Fan Boys, and people who have no idea what theyre talking about but generally cant understand the truth.

Haha, at least we think alike regarding the FLE.

OT: Bummer. I had no idea KK was closing. I've never actually been. But I've planned to go several times. Once, I even got as far as the gates only to realize it wasn't open as late as I thought it was.

 

[Evil Genius]

OT: Bummer. I had no idea KK was closing. I've never actually been. But I've planned to go several times. Once, I even got as far as the gates only to realize it wasn't open as late as I thought it was.

Not to go off topic, but you'll have a chance at Kentucky Kingdom again. A group has purchased it and are planning to re-open the park once everything with Six Flags is ironed out. It may be a year from now...but KK will live again.

 

[Tigerace81]

It really does suck lol. Its been a home park for me for 17 years, and now because Six Flags is greedy (asked to pay no lease for 9 years) we have no park and 1000 people lost their jobs. But our former owner just took over again and is spending 20 million to fix and restore the park. Too bad you couldnt have seen it in 1997 or 2003 which was the only good years we had with Six Flags.

 

[Evil Genius]

It really does suck lol. Its been a home park for me for 17 years, and now because Six Flags is greedy (asked to pay no lease for 9 years) we have no park and 1000 people lost their jobs. But our former owner just took over again and is spending 20 million to fix and restore the park. Too bad you couldnt have seen it in 1997 or 2003 which was the only good years we had with Six Flags.

We've never had a chance to visit but always intended to. Now I guess we'll have to wait a bit longer.

 

[Tigerace81]

Personally think Six Flags is the devil I called all my theme park friends when I found out their CEO Mark Shapiro resigned haha. But now their out to ruin other parks with these new roller coaster train wraps. lets see, we got some for Stride Gum, karate Kid, Axe, and Georgia Power Company. They all look horrible.

 

[Lee]

I
Let me ask you guys this. What if FLE included more rides and fewer M&Gs, but it was all princesses and fairies? Would you be okay with that?

Yes.
That has been one of my main points all along, that they should cut back on the M&Gs and and another ride. Theme is unimportant so long as it fits FL. The Snow White mine car ride, Jacobson's "Cartoon Corners"....whatever. The M&G need can be met on a smaller scale, with the savings going to an....wait for it....actual attraction.:drevil:

 

[wm49rs]

Yes.
That has been one of my main points all along, that they should cut back on the M&Gs and and another ride. Theme is unimportant so long as it fits FL. The Snow White mine car ride, Jacobson's "Cartoon Corners"....whatever. The M&G need can be met on a smaller scale, with the savings going to an....wait for it....actual attraction.:drevil:

The savings are going towards an actual attraction-the MI2 coaster at DHS.

 

[ItsMGMtome]

FLE is good and bad...

The good

- Maybe the number of times I get run over by a stroller will go down with a larger walking area in FL

- Maybe I'll actually take the time to ride on Dumbo. I've been an annual pass holder for I think 8 years now and have yet to make it on that ride.

- It adds another much needed AA ride in FL.

- Eateries are sooooo needed. This past year I have been to the Kingdom 3 different times and each time we end up doing the same thing... "Where do you want to eat?" The Liberty Tree's menu is too limited, the Royal Table is kinda pricey if not a special occasion, Tony's is usually difficult to get into last minute when the park is crowded. Plenty of fast food options but I usually end up finding myself in the Plaza. Veggie burger for this vegan... don't hate.

- It garauntees for the time being that the single greatest AA in WDW is safe... for now. I'm looking at you Sonny Eclipse!

- It could be fun.

THE BAD

- Duh they aren't spending money on things that obviously appeal more to me. AK, and I know you all feel me on that one. Maybe fixing up the sad sad NYC San Fran city scapes... they coulda planned a theater for a broadway style show on that street or at least a cool NY eatery... Epcot needs a lil love but that is more of a required on going investment to keep new elements constantly coming into FW. I miss Jeremy Irons...

- One ride does not get my blood pumping in excitement...

- I actually enjoyed the Barn Stormer... single tear

- Will this help shrink the lines for Peter Pan or just make it worse or have no effect?

- No Lion King, Aladdin, or BandB rides... this makes me sad as those are the big three from my child hood. Sorry LM red heads just aren't my type


If I was spending the dollars...

I'd have spent a lil bit to remove the cars in TomorrowLand
I would have figured out a way to remove the gross looking black stuff from the foam rubber on Splash Mountain logs.
I guess I'll never get the TSI turned into something I want to go to... I'm just not willing to get trapped on that Island... They could have rethemed it as a pirate island... I know I know they already have POTC but I thought it could be fun.

I don't mind Space Mountain's refurb. I am glad they didn't make big changes, keep it old school people. Also BLSRS is fun and doesn't need to be perfected unless they would create a take home version... that kept score...

thanks for your time

 

[Tigerace81]

^ I dont think you know that much about FLE

 

[lebeau]

Erm we are talking about children at which age here? 3? 4? They are scared from the villains?

I'm guessing you don't have kids.

A lot of three and four year olds are scared of Mickey.

Captain Hook terrorizes some teenagers.

An outside of the "Disney faithful" few adults have any kind of affection for the villains. That's why you don't see villains merch on the shelves at Wal-Mart. Again, they failed to support a character meal.

Now, if Tim Burton makes "Malificent" and it rakes in the big bucks like "Alice" maybe things will change. But right now, the villains aren't a franchise much less something Disney should make room for at the expense of princesses.

 

[lebeau]

It's good that Fantasyland is getting expanded and a new attraction is coming. I think what's making people crazy is the 400-500 million dollar price tage on one 'D' ride clone from Disneyland and a bunch of meet and greets, when the other parks need so much.

I'm sure if FL got the expansion that I hear it was supposed to get it would really appeal to everyone and pretty much worth it. But its not. And it's not about not wanting to appeal to little girls (or mostly little girls) but not at the expense that sets back other expansions to other parks that could use that bread.

I hear the price tag will be around 300 mil. Maybe less by the time they get done cutting things.

Again, if I were calling the shots, I'd be prioritizing making AK (and to a lesser extent DHS) into a full day park. I can only assume that when they ran the numbers, a quick cheap fix for MKs capacity and dining issues made more financial sense.

 

[Tigerace81]

I remember being 6 and being scared to death of some of the villians, mostly Malificent, so no, nothing villain themed would probably be so successful.

Kind of ironic that now 11 years later Malificent is one of my favorite characters haha.

 

[Spike-in-Berlin]

I'm guessing you don't have kids.

A lot of three and four year olds are scared of Mickey.

Captain Hook terrorizes some teenagers.

An outside of the "Disney faithful" few adults have any kind of affection for the villains. That's why you don't see villains merch on the shelves at Wal-Mart. Again, they failed to support a character meal.

Now, if Tim Burton makes "Malificent" and it rakes in the big bucks like "Alice" maybe things will change. But right now, the villains aren't a franchise much less something Disney should make room for at the expense of princesses.

You are guessing correctly. And I confess I don't know how children can be afraid of Mickey. I always thought, as they are the only ones, who are still naive enough to really believe that this dressed CM is the real Mickey Mouse, they would be the main group of guests for these meet and greets.

 

[Lee]

The savings are going towards an actual attraction-the MI2 coaster at DHS.

Nope.
The future DHS attraction would be happening even if FLE were still at it's original budget, or not happening at all. No connection.