Any chance this Splash Mountain retheme is cancelled?

[Screamface]

I disagree. I remember watching the panels and hearing all the cool ideas that they had for this land, and as George pointed out there was some good concept art too. It was the bean counters that slashed the land to high hell.

Wasn't there leaks that claimed Lucasfilm took control away from the Imagineers, and this is what tanked the land? As those people had no real knowledge of Star Wars, were keen on Kathleen Kenedy's version, didn't like the original and so forth.

 

[Screamface]

The complete disregard for fans of one of the most iconic attractions ever is disgusting, don’t care what side you’re on.

This seems to be the current movement in large sections of the entertainment industry. It's about giving the audience what you think they should have, not what they want. Then blaming the audience if they don't accept it. You expect the consumer to be there and consume what you give them.

There's a reason the tech ban wave blocks subs on reddit like r/consumeproduct the meme is too close to reality.

The 38 Year Old Consoomer | Consume Product / Consoomer

See more 'Consume Product / Consoomer' images on Know Your Meme!

knowyourmeme.com

Industries now believe they're in control of the culture and need to use their position to dictate the culture. Not to be a reflection of the culture and serve it.. If you don't consume and mindlessly accept it, you're against the culture they want to foster. Your opinion doesn't matter.

Accept PATF Bayou Splash, or else you're opposed to the wonderful cultural moment it'll bring.

Then there's the compliant media to back this up. Deligitimise peoples opinions. When HBO announced the new version of Justice League many entertainment outlets put out remarkably similar pieces criticising the decision. Criticising it on the grounds that it was a terrible precedent to give into fandoms, to give people what they were asking for. If successful it could lead to a trend of studios giving into what fans want. It was a remarkable peak behind the veil of the attitudes of these publications. I bring it up, because it's important to get an idea of what is going on culturally. Which is why they don't care if you liked the old Spash Mountain.

 

[SuddenStorm]

Something I've been thinking about... if this overlay is anything less than perfect we'll have lost one of greatest attractions ever built for nothing.

It's a shame Tiana's debut in the parks is a low budget overlay and not a purpose built dark ride with a restaurant themed to her establishment from the film (perhaps where the New Orleans Train Station currently is?). But if this overlay sucks? Man, it'll be a shame.

 

[EagleScout610]

Wow, great find!

I want a half star of credit though, as I called this one a few days ago. They desperately need the ride capacity in WDW, but can spare keeping the Racist Log Ride closed in Disneyland.

Magic Kingdom Park = 25 Rides, 7 E Tickets Including Splash Mountain (Splash, Jungle, Pirates, Mansion, Thunder, Space, Small World)

Disneyland Park = 37 Rides, 12 E Tickets Not Including Splash Mountain (Jungle, Pirates, Mansion, Thunder, Space, Small World, Indy, Matterhorn, Submarines, Star Tours, Rise Before Dawn, Target Run)

Disney World needs all the rides they can get up and running even with reduced park crowds, but Disneyland can spare keeping Splash Mountain closed for the next four years until Tiana's Bayou Bash N' Splash opens.

 

[Phroobar]

Captain EO was changed to Guardians of the Galaxy Preview without notice. When I emailed Disneyland they told me Captain EO would return in a few months, but it never happened.

I believe the subs were closed without warning as well, although I could be wrong about this.



My wife and I have already decided to stop going once Splash closes, this would just make our cancellation happen sooner instead of letting the pass extend.

Not that I think Disney cares about losing some customers over this as I'm sure they will still have plenty, but it's a new phase for us. If I continued to attend I'd just be depressed knowing Splash Mountain is gone.

If I remember correctly, you got one of the extremely expensive passes. Hopefully some accountant will raise an eyebrow over the lost of revenue. I'm hoping there will be a large drop in AP renewals once the park reopens. Disneyland works best with less people.

 

[Phroobar]

Tony Baxter talking about Knott's Timber Mountain Log ride.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Captain EO was changed to Guardians of the Galaxy Preview without notice. When I emailed Disneyland they told me Captain EO would return in a few months, but it never happened.

I believe the subs were closed without warning as well, although I could be wrong about this.



My wife and I have already decided to stop going once Splash closes, this would just make our cancellation happen sooner instead of letting the pass extend.

Not that I think Disney cares about losing some customers over this as I'm sure they will still have plenty, but it's a new phase for us. If I continued to attend I'd just be depressed knowing Splash Mountain is gone.

I'd argue that's a different example. As much as loved Captain EO more than I probably should have:
1. That was not a sentiment shared by most park guests
2. The time it went was probably about right, as much as it is annoying that it's been nothing but movie previews ever since.
3. It was dated as all heck (arguably in the best possible way, but nonetheless)
4. 3D films don't typically have long runs at DLR (and when you take into account its original run, it's actually the longest running of any of them)
5. Captain EO is not an attraction that, even on its best days, approached the wait times or stature of TOT, Screamin', or Splash.

So not quite the same.

The original Sub closure was announced in July and it closed in early September.

 

[mickEblu]

Captain EO was changed to Guardians of the Galaxy Preview without notice. When I emailed Disneyland they told me Captain EO would return in a few months, but it never happened.

I believe the subs were closed without warning as well, although I could be wrong about this.



My wife and I have already decided to stop going once Splash closes, this would just make our cancellation happen sooner instead of letting the pass extend.

Not that I think Disney cares about losing some customers over this as I'm sure they will still have plenty, but it's a new phase for us. If I continued to attend I'd just be depressed knowing Splash Mountain is gone.

I have decided Im done with annual passes but I still have a dilemma. If they keep Splash Mountain around short term I need to go get a few last rides in. However, that really wouldn’t give them the message I want. If everyone who felt like me just didn’t go back they might get the message. If people decide to wait until they actually close Splash I think the message is watered down. However, I’m probably foolish for thinking they care at all, even if enough people did vote with their wallet.

 

[mickEblu]

It would be so refreshing if they just left the name as Splash Mountain with no pinche colons in sight.

Sorry. I’m watching Queen of the South on Netflix right now.

 

[mickEblu]

You have a good point, I think reaching out to disney directly is the best way to get the message across. I selfishly will go on Splash at least until my current pass expires (if it does in fact reopen).

It's great to hear I'm not the only one deeply saddened by this move. The problem is by announcing it now, race is now tied into the discussion.

I would definitely do the same if I still had an annual pass. My pass expired last March. I was going to buy another annual pass for my family and I next Spring but not anymore.

Of course it is and They deliberately announced it at the time they did. For the virtue signaling and maybe a little bit to back themselves into a corner. I wonder if they are split about this move inside of the organization as well.

 

[PiratesMansion]

You aren't wrong about the film being dated or having low wait times. I'd argue the same for the Tiki Room and It's A Small World.

This doesn't mean EO isn't a classic attraction. It also doesn't mean EO had to go without any announcement. At least Disney World and Paris gave fans a chance to see it one last time.

EO will always be significant for the amazing talent in the film, first 4d film, and the first Disney attraction with an African American at the forefront. Heck it may be the only one until Tiana Mountain Splash Bash.

The definition of classic is definitely different from person to person, but as much as I loved it, I'm not 100% sure I'd personally call EO a classic; then again, I'm certainly not a local and only saw it a handful of times (probably about once a trip). If it is a classic, then it's certainly not a classic on the level of anything pre-Eisner, Splash, or Tower; or at least it was never perceived as such by most people. I wonder how many people on here actually saw it more than once or twice when it was around the second time.

Tiki Room and IASW are a bit different, and both have the Walt factor (not that it will stop them from being removed if the company decides it doesn't want them around, but it will complicate it a bit). Tiki Room has the legacy of being the first AA show, is relatively well-located, and plays to busy houses much of the time (the Dole Whip stand certainly helps and might honestly be the reason the show's still around). IASW is a World's Fair attraction, has massive capacity, and is right up there with Pirates and Mansion as one of THE icons of the park and "THE BRAND", and of course there's that holiday overlay, and Disney can't ever resist overlays. They might modify it again, but even in the modern "anything can die" DisneyParks environment, I don't see them yanking it out. With the character additions they've probably "fixed it" to their satisfaction, unless they decide to modify some of the dolls to continue on what they're starting with Splash.

By contrast, Captain EO, at least in its 2nd run, was very much a cult object, and its theaters, at least when I went, were never particularly full. In a way it's like Lincoln-two shows that are easy to overlook, but Captain EO doesn't have the historical legacy that, so far, has protected Lincoln.

I do agree that they should have given fans a warning, an announced sendoff, something that every attraction that's leaving deserves.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Splash Mt will live on in the Playstation Disneyworld racing game.

 

[mickEblu]

Captain EO will live on in Disneyland Adventures.

Planters will also live on in Disneyland Adventures

 

[Sharon&Susan]

Disney also makes more money off the Tiki Room by APs using it as a dining room for their Dole Whips....

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Planters will also live on in Disneyland Adventures

So will the Carnation Gardens, another area that modern Disneyland management took a look at and decided it had nothing to do with Princesses or movies, so it had to go.

 

[mickEblu]

So will the Carnation Gardens, another area that modern Disneyland management took a look at and decided it had nothing to do with Princesses or movies, so it had to go.

Did they do anything good to Disneyland in the last 10 years? The bad far outweighs the good and the one time I rode ROTR


BAD
Splash Mountain evicted
Project Stardusting all the planters
No more sidewalks in the hub and town square
Carnation Gardens gets IP'd
Tiki Room Queue gets Massacred
HM Planter removed
Fantastic 2.0
New Auction Scene POTC with obnoxious dialogue and voice acting
The FP sign placed at the HM entrance (ok this one is kind of petty)
Big Thunder Ranch and BBQ removed and not replaced with Ewoks or BBQ elsewhere.
Hungry Bear losing its location on the water
The New DLRR Narration
Court of Angels
Cutting down the wall of trees
Shrinking the ROA/TSI
Barbies Castle
Snow Whites Happy Adventures
Neon London
GOTG:MB
Cheap Marvel Land
Pixar Pier


Good
New Hungry Bear Sign..... I take it back. It all evens out

 

[PiratesMansion]

I think I would have to disagree with these statements. As I said Captain EO was the first 4D show ever made, a genre which is still around to this day. No show before this had in theater effects.

George Lucas and Michael Jackson are some of the highest regarded entertainers of the 20th Century. I see the film definitely as a piece of significance for this alone. George arguably has more square footage in Disneyland than Walt.

The Tiki Room is half the size and half the capacity of the Magic Eye Theater. I'd say both shows get maybe 2 dozen people a show, Magic Eye will just look more empty.

When the theater switched to film previews I only see 5-10 people a show at most. There's no net gain from this advertisement format.

Glad you agree about them giving a warning, it probably was a last minute decision to not bring it back after Guardians. Guardians has a history of destroying great attractions.

You are right that almost nothing is untouchable now, it wouldnt shock me if Walt's creations are next.

Theater size definitely affects perception though. Mickey Mouse Revue at Magic Kingdom, due to a design flaw, had a waiting area that was smaller than the actual theater, which meant is was literally impossible to fill the house (the Imagineer who designed it, Bill Justice I believe, has bemoaned this fact before). Undoubtedly that made it easier to just ship it to Tokyo when the OLC wanted it.

Similarly, part of the reason COP and America Sings both bit the dust was because they had massive capacity that was not being utilized to its full extent. It still moved a lot of people, but it's also a lot easier to get emptier showings with such high capacity. Management in that scenario would not focus on how many people it was moving, but how many people it COULD be moving that it was not. So Captain EO's theater seemed emptier than Tiki Room's with a comparably-sized audience, and people in that scenario tend to jump to "oh, it's unpopular" rather than understanding or looking at why it's emptier. Hence its fate.

From Disney's perspective, it would rather give a preview to those 5-10 people because hopefully they and their friends will go see the movie down the line. Even if the theater's near empty, it's more beneficial to Disney than an older 3D film starring a controversial figure.

In a perfect world, these previews wouldn't exist at all, but that's not where we are.

And while the film was innovative, let's be honest, in terms of George Lucas material (Indy, Star Tours, EO) it was a distant third in awareness and popularity. In terms of DL material, it was not on the same tier as any of the mountains, Jungle Cruise, Indy, Star Tours, Pirates, Mansion, Small World...by comparison EO, particularly in its 2nd run, was small potatoes by comparison. It was a cult film-and there's nothing wrong with that, as a fellow cult member-but for most people that's all it was.

 

[PiratesMansion]

Did they do anything good to Disneyland in the last 10 years? The bad far outweighs the good and the one time I rode ROTR


BAD
Splash Mountain evicted
Project Stardusting all the planters
No more sidewalks in the hub and town square
Carnation Gardens gets IP'd
Tiki Room Queue gets Massacred
HM Planter removed
Fantastic 2.0
New Auction Scene POTC with obnoxious dialogue and voice acting
The FP sign placed at the HM entrance (ok this one is kind of petty)
Big Thunder Ranch and BBQ removed and not replaced with Ewoks or BBQ elsewhere.
Hungry Bear losing its location on the water
The New DLRR Narration
GOTG:MB
Cheap Marvel Land
Pixar Pier


Good
New Hungry Bear Sign..... I take it back. It all evens out

Don't forget to add the ruining of the Bobsleds to the bad column.

But in terms of good, I'd say:
-I honestly believe the new railroad route and the new ROA scenery is an improvement
-Mobile ordering
-No more camping out for three hours before the first showing Fantasmic
-Cars Land and BVS
-Ghiradelli
-WOC
-The removal of the projection mist waterfall in the transition tunnel of Pirates and the restoration of original dialogue in that segment
-Jolly Holiday Bakery
-Red Rose Taverne (I wish it wasn't temporary, but the food's a huge upgrade over Pinocchio)
-The Tangled and BATB shows at Fantasy Faire (I have no context for Carnation, but I think for what it's worth the area is very nice for what it is)
-Mickey and the Magical Map
-Frozen (an improvement over Aladdin on a technical level, IMO; I know that's not a popular opinion)
-New Star Tours (another opinion I'm sure many won't agree with but I stand by)
-Soundsational (RIP)
-Paint the Night
-Trader Sam's

So I disagree that nothing good's come out of the last decade, even if it's not always an even mix of good and bad.

 

[George Lucas on a Bench]

Did they do anything good to Disneyland in the last 10 years? The bad far outweighs the good and the one time I rode ROTR


BAD
Splash Mountain evicted
Project Stardusting all the planters
No more sidewalks in the hub and town square
Carnation Gardens gets IP'd
Tiki Room Queue gets Massacred
HM Planter removed
Fantastic 2.0
New Auction Scene POTC with obnoxious dialogue and voice acting
The FP sign placed at the HM entrance (ok this one is kind of petty)
Big Thunder Ranch and BBQ removed and not replaced with Ewoks or BBQ elsewhere.
Hungry Bear losing its location on the water
The New DLRR Narration
Court of Angels
Cutting down the wall of trees
Shrinking the ROA/TSI
Barbies Castle
Snow Whites Happy Adventures
Neon London
GOTG:MB
Cheap Marvel Land
Pixar Pier


Good
New Hungry Bear Sign..... I take it back. It all evens out

They changed the Tiki Room? Isn't it just a waiting area before you go in?

You forgot a few I can think of:

- Thunder Mountain "explosion" scene to replace wobbly rocks that they're afraid will literally fall out and kill people
- Matterhorn replace bobselds, glowing eyes at the top of the hill with screens, Fortress of Solitude crystal scene with junkyard of old ride cars and every classic yeti with new robot yeti that doesn't sound the same for no reason
- Ghost with hat box
- Autotopia now has Awesomo

 

[PiratesMansion]

They changed the Tiki Room? Isn't it just a waiting area before you go in?

You forgot a few I can think of:

- Thunder Mountain "explosion" scene to replace wobbly rocks that they're afraid will literally fall out and kill people
- Matterhorn replace bobselds, remove glowing eyes at the top of the hill which now has screens, Fortress of Solitude crystal scene with junkyard of old ride cars and every classic yeti with new robot yeti
- Ghost with hat box
- Autotopia now has Awesimo

Those are bad things? I did like the crystals more than the abandoned vehicle graveyard, but otherwise...