Another Recent Returnee, With Controversial Opinions

jmvd20

Well-Known Member
Now we're talking! Would this be the official Disney line? How about I choke on my Max and Erma's burger? These are some great rebuttles, keep them coming!

Or better yet, how about arguing the points?

This is a Disney fan site and it appears that your critique has brought out the Disney is perfect crowd.

I guess you have to love everything at WDW and dare not criticize anything less you be labeled a Universal lover :shrug:
 

CThaddeus

New Member
Well, then, get used to the Pirates changes, please. Show some appreciation for them.

If you can appreciate almost everything else that they've done, you can most certainly appreciate the PotC upgrades as well. They had their reasons for doing them, you know.

To cash in on a fad. And that they did.
 

DisneyNut2007

Active Member
To cash in on a fad. And that they did.

I COMPLETELY disagree with that assessment. Why does EVERYTHING have to appear as a "cashing in on a fad" opportunity to a lot of you?

They made the changes because the people wanted them and because the majority of the guests, who don't know that the attraction came before the film, were constantly asking "Where's Jack Sparrow?", "Where's Barbossa?", etc. And trying to explain the thing about the ride coming before the film wouldn't have worked very well. Those guests are not stupid, you know.

IMO, the PotC attraction is now better than ever with the enhancements. They original look and feel of the ride was not compromised in any way, shape or form whatsoever. WDW's version, which has always been quite lackluster compared to the DL original, especially needed the upgrades to keep the people coming back for more.

I hope you'll understand that now.
 

hrcollectibles

Active Member
While I share the opinion that WDW food is generally wonderful, I find it ironic that you contrast elements of WDW to McDonaldized products when WDW is typically second-most common for being attacked as McDonaldized by social scientists (look up Disneyization or Disneyification on Google Scholar...there's even a popular book about the phenomenon).

Anyway, while there are several points that I could take up, others seem to be doing that, so I will focus on your abhorrence of PotC. You know this had a rehab last summer where they replaced some AAs? The auctioneer and Jack Sparrow AAs are some of the most advanced in the park. What would you suggest be done here, insert real pirates? I really don't see what could be done with this attraction to bring it up to your standards.

you mean they are not real pirates???:lookaroun
 

JDM

New Member
Yes, I agree that PIRATES now has the best of both worlds: It has kept the original theming and feel, but also added a few small enhancements from the film series.
The best chance for pleasing "everyone" even though that is (apparently) impossible.

The Jack Sparrow animatronics are among the best Disney has done. and Adding Barbossa and Davy Jones--also a nice touch.
 

CThaddeus

New Member
I COMPLETELY disagree with that assessment. Why does EVERYTHING have to appear as a "cashing in on a fad" opportunity to a lot of you?

They made the changes because the people wanted them and because the majority of the guests, who don't know that the attraction came before the film, were constantly asking "Where's Jack Sparrow?", "Where's Barbossa?", etc. And trying to explain the thing about the ride coming before the film wouldn't have worked very well. Those guests are not stupid, you know.

IMO, the PotC attraction is now better than ever with the enhancements. They original look and feel of the ride was not compromised in any way, shape or form whatsoever. WDW's version, which has always been quite lackluster compared to the DL original, especially needed the upgrades to keep the people coming back for more.

I hope you'll understand that now.

I hope you'll understand I'm not stupid, either. I've heard all these arguments, but I believe you're giving people far too little credit if you really think first time visitors have never heard of the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction before. Come on. It is probably the supreme example of what an attraction can be. It has been around for over 40 years and unless you are completely ignorant of Disney or pop culture in general, and didn't grow up watching Wonderful World of Disney then I think you'd probably have at least a clue that the attraction was first. Regardless, it doesn't matter. Why should the attraction NEED to conform itself to a currently popular movie? Why must there be a Jack, Davy, or Barbossa in it? Were there not other pirates in the world? The attraction was still popular enough to not need these so-called enhancements.
Look, I'm usually all for improvements to attractions (ie. an improved AA, updated sets, a new GENERAL scene), if indeed they are improvements and they don't compromise the storyline of the original attraction. The adding of the movie characters has changed the general storyline to a specific one - Barbossa wants to find Jack and the key to the treasure. The whole attraction is now about that. Yes, all the major scenes are still there, but the scripts of the speaking pirates (except for the ones either in jail or just generally carousing) are now all talking about finding Jack. The original story was really less of a story and more a general scenario. It required you to use your imagination to fill in details, and consequently, it made for a much better attraction. Now, it's all handed to you on a platter. It's like the bride scene at Disneyland's Haunted Mansion. Before, the backstory wasn't given...you had to use your imagination to know what had happened with the bride. Now, she flat out tells you she's an axe murderer. Do people really need to be beat upside the head like that? Again, I feel this is a case of not giving people enough credit.
I will give you that I don't care as much that they made the changes to Disney World's Pirates. Like you, I thought that version was seriously lacking, and it was one of the few that actually disappointed me when comparing it to Disneyland's. Jack actually seems to fit into that last scene, and it makes more sense than that dopey final scene that used to be there (who exactly were those pirates shooting at?).
So, while my initial response to you was a bit glib, I still think it's accurate. You said it yourself in your post: "guests...were constantly asking 'Where's Jack Sparrow?,' 'Where's Barbossa?'" If this is true, and if that's why they did it, they were bowing down to a fad...a fad that may fade in the next ten years.
So, while you're entitled to your opinion about the changes, I'm entitled to mine as well. If they had just added Jack in as one of the characters and not called an extreme amount of attention to him - ie. one of the pirates in the jail cell, etc. - I would not oppose this change as much as I do.
 

DisneyNut2007

Active Member
If they had just added Jack in as one of the characters and not called an extreme amount of attention to him - ie. one of the pirates in the jail cell, etc. - I would not oppose this change as much as I do.

Actually, they don't call as much attention to Jack as you may think. Only 3 pirates do that (Barbossa, the well captain and the "pooped" pirate).

And the treasure is still the pirates' primary target, not Jack. They just want Jack because they think he knows where the treasure is and want to capture him and force him to tell them where it is.

Also, just because they did what they did does not necessarily mean that they bowed down to a fad. The main reason for the changes I made, IMO, is because the attraction was in dire need of upgrades to keep it fresh, relevant and, most of all, give it a great deal of TLC.

And I never said that you were stupid, either. You'll get used to the changes as time goes by, I'm sure.
 

JDM

New Member
I'll probably kick myself for getting involved in this, but....
(all of the following is with respect for your opinion...)


...I believe you're giving people far too little credit if you really think first time visitors have never heard of the Pirates of the Caribbean attraction before.
Just last week, I spoke with a co-worker who has BEEN to WDW and didn't know that the movie was based on the ride. Yes, it baffled me too, but there you are.

Why should the attraction NEED to conform itself to a currently popular movie? You mean, like Voyage of the Little Mermaid? Finding Nemo the Musical or the ride? Monsters, Inc. Laugh Floor? Stitch's Great Escape? Festival of the Lion King? Not to mention the Great Movie Ride...

Why must there be a Jack, Davy, or Barbossa in it? Were there not other pirates in the world? Yes, but none which were viewed on film by millions of people worldwide. The attraction was still popular enough to not need these so-called enhancements. So, now it may be more popular. Worst case scenario, they add Fastpass to it.

Look, I'm usually all for improvements to attractions No offense, but it doesn't sound that way. if indeed they are improvements and they don't compromise the storyline of the original attraction. .....The original story was really less of a story and more a general scenario. If it wasn't much of a storyline to begin with, then how could the story be compromised by adding a specific story?

It's like the bride scene at Disneyland's Haunted Mansion. Until I read these boards, I wasn't even AWARE that Haunted Mansion had a Bride storyline. Again, I feel this is a case of not giving people enough credit. No one ever went broke not giving people enough credit.

...if that's why they did it, they were bowing down to a fad...a fad that may fade in the next ten years. Like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? (Although I still loved that one!)

So, while you're entitled to your opinion about the changes, I'm entitled to mine as well. If they had just added Jack in as one of the characters and not called an extreme amount of attention to him - ie. one of the pirates in the jail cell, etc. - I would not oppose this change as much as I do.
I don't feel that Jack detracts from the ride at all. If anything, I think they added him in the most unobtrusive way possible WITHOUT sacrificing the spirit of the original. (and I've seen both versions) A park that operates 365 days a year for 36 years HAS to embrace change. And so should we all, in my opinion
 

slappy magoo

Well-Known Member
What amazes me most if I haven't been obnoxious in this thread yet!

True, I haven't posted in this thread until now, but you'd think my obnoxiousness would've preceded me. :shrug:

Anyway, there's definitely a Lazlo Toth-esque element to the OP. :D He had a great time, but so many of his comments are negative. And they're written in a way that almost seems as if WDW went out of its way to disappoint him.

Without arguging evvery single point, I'd HUMBLY suggest that, while WDW tries to have something for everyone,, that doesn't mean that everything is something for everyone. For instance, the "slightly upscale fun house" rides aren't supposed to be cutting-edge technology, which helps make them a little more family-friendly slash kid-accessible. There are enough attractions that I DO enjoy that I can easily breeze past the stuff I don't enjoy. And some of the "untouched" attractions I enjoy most of all. While Walt was a big believer in technology, making things better & better, he also apparently was big on nostalgia, taking comfort in the more pleasant memories of the past. I would venture that some of the "untouched" attractions may have seemed retro when they were first opened to the public, and that's not necessarily a bad thing. They serve the story, and the experience around the atory, quite well, and that matters more than whether or not it's got faster processors or was freshly painted yesterday. Nostalgia was a big part of Walt's life, and a big part of his plans for his parks.

While I personally wouldn't mind some bigger thrill rides, I know where to find them, and I don't expect WDW to be the destination for my coaster needs.
 

WDWFigment

Well-Known Member
While I've already commented on the specific opinions of the thread creator, I would like to comment on the general rationale behind the comments. Certainly, the parks were created by Walt Disney, and would never have been possible without him.

That said, Walt Disney is dead, while the parks are 'alive'. You won't be very successful if you can't independently create something without asking how a dead man would react to it. EPCOT Center was never a place that people lived in; does that mean it's inferior to Celebration, Florida? I'd certainly hope not. Walt Disney was not the only person ever to have original ideas, and he certainly isn't the only consideration that should be made when evaluating the parks. Hiding behind the point that "I'm like Walt" when criticizing the parks isn't going to get you too far. If you have criticism, that's fine, but you may want to consider the fact that these are the most successful theme parks in history, and their business only has increased (higher proportionally to other parks) throughout the years. Disney is hardly resting on their laurels or name recognition. If they did that, their 'name' would have been sullied years ago. With that in mind, and the fact that you're on a WDW fan site, you may have to come to the realization that however subjective the nature of opinions, yours are quite unpopular, and not a reflection of um...reality. Sure, we all have some slight critiques: this or that could be better, etc. Problem is, like any business, this one operates with limited funds, and there is no way to make the parks flawlesss. Walt knew that too, and I would bet you that he wouldn't update every AA each time new technology became available. Chances are he realized it was a business, too.
 

JWG

Well-Known Member
Walt Disney is dead

Problem is, like any business, this one operates with limited funds, and there is no way to make the parks flawlesss. Walt knew that too, and I would bet you that he wouldn't update every AA each time new technology became available. Chances are he realized it was a business, too.

BLASPHEMY!! :eek:
Walt had a bottomless pit of money to make sure everything WAS flawless as well as suggesting hidden cast members in each attraction to ensure immediate fixes to any issue that may arise. :p

I'm kidding, sorry - things were getting too serious for awhile.
 
than stop going. im sure b gand g or whatever letters you used had a good time and didnt comment on the less than cutting edge animatronics.

peter pan always has a long line, they must be doing something right
 

sittle

Member
Main ingredient: sarcasm

While I share the opinion that WDW food is generally wonderful, I find it ironic that you contrast elements of WDW to McDonaldized products when WDW is typically second-most common for being attacked as McDonaldized by social scientists (look up Disneyization or Disneyification on Google Scholar...there's even a popular book about the phenomenon).

Sorry WDWfigment... I was being sarcastic. Restaurants like JIKO, BOMA, and CHEFS are actually considered very fine dining options at WDW. I do understand that the counter service is quite cookie cutter McDonaldized.

Sorry for my delayed response... please continue!
 

sittle

Member
You can go too!

I don't get the need to "defend" Disney myself. Somehow I think the multi-million dollar global entertainment behemoth can take care of itself without me stepping in. If this guy says he had fun and plans on going back, I'm sure they're happy to continue taking his money while he finds more stuff to criticize.

And "why don't you just go to Universal?" borders on childish to me. I don't agree with all the nitpicks this guy has, but what better place to post them then HERE? :shrug:

You can just go to Universal as well! HA!!

Just kidding Smarta$$ moment!
 

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