Another Recent Returnee, With Controversial Opinions

[mickster]

PLTram, I wholeheartedly empathize with what's happening to you right now, and I can totally see where you are coming from. Like you, I absolutely love Disney and am a huge fan. As a huge Disney fan, I've come to expect a lot from Disney. Is that because I'm overly critical and impossible to please? Absolutely not! Disney themselves set the bar high, not me. Unfortunately though, I do believe they've been riding on their reputation for far too long. An earlier poster stated that if Disney was simply relying on their name brand, that they wouldn't have lasted this long. That's simply not true. A company can thrive for quite a long time putting out a substandard product if they've built a great reputation for themselves. It's actually happened to Disney once before in their history. After Walt died and the company stopped being creative, they survived for nearly 20 years before a takeover attempt occured. When Michael Eisner, Frank Wells and Jeffrey Katzenberg first joined the company, they reignited it and starting investing in it again and their efforts brought Disney from an industry joke to the industry leader again...especially in their theme parks. They were once again considered cutting edge, and Disney was "cool" once again. But things have slowly been declining since the mid-90's. I personally think they've been riding on their reputation for too long once again.

I applaud the OP for pointing out many of the areas in which Disney has been slipping. It's now well-documented that Disney execs read fan sites such as this one. If all they ever read is how "amazing" every attraction is, then where is the incentive for them to make improvements?

And PLTram, as for the many people on here who have responded with comments like, "We're Disney fans. What kind of reaction were you expecting?" and "That's just our way.", I think that's a load of BS. People who can't think of anything more intelligent to say than that need to put down their Kool Aid glasses, put their brains back in, and respond to your actual points as you've requested several times now.

 

[mickster]

Oh by the way...:lol:

I think you'd LOVE Islands of Adventure. It's a really neato park with cool technology and superior thrill rides. It's like a whole park of Tower of Terrors and Rock N Rollercoasters with very impressive theming. It lacks the nostalgic value of Disney, and isn't family friendly unless you have a family of thrill seekers, but it's a blast!

Universal Studios has some great cutting edge rides too.

I agree with you, except for the part about IOA not being family friendly. The entire Seuss Landing area is great and it's wonderfully themed. The Cat in the Hat ride is on a par with Disney's best dark rides, in fact it's actually much more elaborate and detailed.

As far as the "cool technology" at IOA, you're absolutely right! Disney has yet to offer anything as technologically impressive as the Amazing Adventures of Spiderman. That is, hands down, the best theme park attraction anywhere. It's got a great story from beginning to end, has remarkable attention to detail (I notice something new every time I ride it), and is just impressive all around. I've also never been on the attraction and had any element of it not be functioning, so clearly they do a great job on the upkeep of it.

 

[nibblesandbits]

I'm gonna preface this with I love Disneyworld and seriously can't get enough...that's why I'm here everyday. :lol:

However, I think I get what the OP is trying to say...from what I can tell from his posts...(and please...PLTram...I'm not trying to slam you...just trying to get an understanding.) The OP liked the thrills. That's what excited him. Test Track, Mission:Space, Space Mountain...etc. What he didn't really like were that classic attractions that to many of us, make Disney, Disney.

Sure, things like HM, SSE, and to some extent Space...need refurbs...but I think many of us would disagree that they need to be completely gutted (well, maybe with the excpetion of Space to some.)

The thing that must be remembered though...and this isn't just directed at you PLTram, but to everyone who has complaints about Disney or some aspect of some ride...is that Disney can't please everyone. They can try their hardest, but in the end, there will be a small amount who just end up disappointed and in some aspects, bored. It's almost impossible for the entire park to be full of things that we are all going to enjoy.

Me, I can't stand TOT...ride makes me sick to my stomach...it's a cool ride...but you wouldn't catch me on it with a ten foot pole! Another classic I can't really stand...Country Bear Jamboryee...sure I think I'm gonna give it another chance this year...but I could take it or leave it. At Epcot...I really don't care much about WS. I still visit it...but I don't go to Epcot specifically for World Showcase. And AK...well...let's put it this way...this next trip, it's going to have to really wow me. But see, there are things at each park that I could take or leave....but I don't complain, because out there, there is someone who absolutely adores it.

As others have pointed out...Disney is a family oriented theme park. Not everything can be an E-ticket thrill ride to entertain us. There has to be a nice balance between kid friendly stuff (which things like Peter Pan accomplish...no matter how "outdated" it may appear) and things that adults will enjoy. And I think Disney does a pretty darned good job walking that thin line between the two huge factions.

However, I believe that for some people...the bar that is set for them on their Disney standards...whether indeed people believe was set by Disney for them...or was set in their own mind themselves...is way too high. Sure it's Disney...and Disney is supposed to be outstanding...but at what point does that "bar" for outstandingness get raised too high for reality's expectations?

 

[bugsbunny]

For somebody that has made multiple trips to Disney, I find it hard to believe you could possibly find any reason to make a trip there. What happened on the last 47 trips? Everything was great? But now, it just all stinks? I don't understand how just all of the sudden, there is just NOTHING there you don't approve of (other than the hotels).

Being that its the #1 vacation destination on the planet, I have to imagine that something other than hotels are mediocre! I would have to agree that things need some updating, but I don't think torching the place and starting over is anything of a reality in anyone's world.

Sorry to say, but sounds like you would have thrown the Mona Lisa away simply because the smile was crooked. :animwink:

 

[nibblesandbits]

Ditto.

Just ignore the ones who aren't reading what you're saying. I think a lot of people will skim 1-2 sentences and then make some childish comment about them without actually understanding the topic at hand.

and remember...that some of the people who do make comments that can appear childish...are actually children themselves. Not everyone on these boards is over the age of 18...now I'm not saying this excuses people from making childish comments...just stating a fact.

 

[PLTram]

For somebody that has made multiple trips to Disney, I find it hard to believe you could possibly find any reason to make a trip there. What happened on the last 47 trips? Everything was great? But now, it just all stinks? I don't understand how just all of the sudden, there is just NOTHING there you don't approve of

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[MojoMax]

Whew!! I am worn out here! Been reading for a lifetime....so...
You had fun...but didn't. People are mad...but agree...hmm
Now I get it!! :brick:

 

[mickster]

However, I believe that for some people...the bar that is set for them on their Disney standards...whether indeed people believe was set by Disney for them...or was set in their own mind themselves...is way too high. Sure it's Disney...and Disney is supposed to be outstanding...but at what point does that "bar" for outstandingness get raised too high for reality's expectations?

Gee, I wonder who this comment is aimed at.

To expect to be wowed by a visit to Disney is not an unreasonable expectation. I think the critiques the OP had were all reasonable ones, and I can understand why he would be disappointed in those aspects of his visit.

And to the OP: I didn't get the impression at all that you had an unenjoyable trip overall. I understood that you were just being critical of those areas. The fact that so many people missed that point is reflective of some very closed-minded thinking.

 

[PLTram]

Whew!! I am worn out here! Been reading for a lifetime....so...
You had fun...but didn't. People are mad...but agree...hmm
Now I get it!! :brick:

Never ever did I ever say that I didn't have any fun. The only time that I used the word fun, that I can find, is that I had "a ton of it."

What I did say is that I am disappointed in how little the rides have changed in the 43 years that I have experienced them. I said that I was disappointed with 90% of my Disney meals.

By the way, I recall feeling the same way about many of the AA rides on my previous trip to WDW in 2000. So this is not some new growth that has suddenly sprouted. I just chose to attempt to have a conversation about it with other Disney afficianados after this trip.
:hammer:

 

[jmvd20]

I don't think that's fair. I don't think even the most devoted fan on this site would say Disney is perfect. Just not as bad as the original poster suggested.

I'm not tossing everyone into that category, just the people who tell others to just go to Universal whenever someone has a negative comment about Disney. You may not think my comment was fair but I do not see it being fair to say "just go to Universal" if someone had a negative experience at WDW.

I dare say this but - even the most die-hard Disney fanatic SHOULD be able to realize that the OP had a number of good points about areas where WDW needs some major improvements. Unfortunately it seems that some would rather just overlook that and criticize the OP instead.

 

[drdoom1001]

• The Rides – Disney rides need a thorough updating. Back in 1964, my first experience with the animatronics was nothing less than breathtaking. No one had seen such marvels before. I remember a man emphatically telling my father that the Abe Lincoln animatronic we were watching was actually a real man! Back in 64 (I was 7), this stuff was cutting edge science and technology. Today the animatronics (for the most part) seem stiff and phony. They seem little more impressive than the robots that adorn my local Rainforest Café here in SE Michigan. With the tameness of the coasters at WDW, theming is everything. The animatronics don’t seem to cut it any more. I appreciated that they added that mist projection thing at the beginning of Pirates. This is a step in the right direction, but not enough to hold up the ride.
o Jungle Cruise – I took my first ride in probably 20 years. Really sad. The only thing that made it interesting was the jokes, and many of them were about how sad the ride had become (the guide made some crack that ‘if you think this ride is lame, check out the Hall of Presidents (we didn’t).
o Carousel of Progress – I saw this one in 1964. It is still charming, but the last scene definitely needs an update. For all the Disney nostalgists out there, this is probably the only ride worth preserving IMHO.
o The New Nemo ride at Epcot – Yawn. It seems an afterthought. Nothing to knock my socks off.
o Stitch Escapes – I was shocked at how much they kept from the previous incarnation of this ride. They ought to gut that building in do something new and unique.
o The Tommorowland Speedway – Here is one example of a ride that Dollywood actually does better. These noisy exhaust belching relics are incredibly out of place anywhere in a high tech amusement park. How about electric cars? How about cars that wont give a little kid a twisted arm from a wild steering wheel once the vehicle hits the guide tracks?
o Snow White, Winnie The Pooh, Peter Pan – These are nothing more than slightly upscale fun houses as found in the local traveling carnivals around the country. Cheap.
o Country Bear Jamboree – Sad. Though the park was pretty full, this ride was more than half empty. It seemed nobody cared. They were just dropping in to get away from the heat. These old rides remind me of having to watch the same old re-runs of old TV shows over and over. If it isn’t a thrill ride, then the 30 year old jokes are bound to be outré at some point.
o Haunted Mansion and Pirates – I loved them back in ’73. Today they are hokey and in need of MAJOR renovation. I fear the refurb planned for HM will not cut the muster.
o Muppets 3D – Another example of Disney coasting on something that worked 10+ years ago.
o Kilamanjaro Safari – Frankly, I don’t get it. I could barely understand what the guy on the radio was saying. Poor sound. The whole poaching thing was unnecessary. The breakaway bridge is barely noticeable. Just show us the animals and can the lame attempts at show.
o The Great Movie Ride – More dusty outdated animatronics.
o Lights Motors Action Stunt show – Cool, but too long. Too much explanation for me. Just give me the show.
o Rides I liked – Rock and Roller Coaster, Tower of Terror, Test Track, Space Mountain, Expedition Everest, Buzz Lightyear. Most, sadly seem to be rides that don’t have the animatronics.
All in all, I think Disney lacks the spirit of innovation and wonder that Walt Disney brought to the table. I know many of you are just fuming over the thought of gutting the Haunted Mansion or Pirates, but I think Walt would be searching for that magic that had people really believing back in ’64. Hanging on to the nostalgia for the sake of security is not what made the Disney parks great, and in another generation, if nothing radical is done, nobody is going to care anymore.
• The food – In a word, Horrible. We ate in the hotels, in the sit down places, Chefs de France, Boma, Boatwrights, Wolfgang Puck, Counter service, Hoop De Doo Review. 90% of the food was pretty lousy. And I am NOT a picky eater or a food-returner. My best meal was at a restaurant I hate locally – Rainforest Café.
• The Resorts themselves are great – My main regret after 9 days of running from theme park to water park to show, was that I didn’t schedule some down time to enjoy our resort (Port Orleans Riverside). It’s a beautiful place with lots to do.
• The Waterparks are a highlight. Typhoon Lagoon and Blizzard Beach are great. Last time I was there, I decided I liked BB better for their cool and better slides, this time we liked TL better for its superior landscaping and better music. As far as the music goes, though, they are playing the same stuff they played there 10 years ago, for the most part. If I worked there I’d have gone totally insane. Especially BB, with the constant Xmas music and reggae rehashes.

Despite, the disappointments, WDW is a fascinating place that offers up a ton of fun. I am still impressed by the sheer size of the place. Just incredible. Next time, however, I might actually venture beyond the world to see what else there is in the greater Orlando area – like Universal studios. Bigger and better coasters, I hope.

I'll state a few opinions on your post:

First of all you say that the animatronics aren't as impressive as they were in 1964 because in 1964 it was something new,it's been 43 years later and believe me that the animatronic figures of today are much more realistic.The difference is that back then people were more impressed by them,even though they looked much more fake than today's!!

Stitch: Couldn't agree with you more!
The new Nemo ride is definitely more for kids,if you were 7 years old you might be raving about it!!
Haunted Mansion, Carousel of Progress and Pirates: these are classics that shouldn't be messed with.
Jungle Cruise is very cool at night,during the day I do find a bit boring! Country Bear Jamboree: I would put this in the same category as Stitch,I did it a few months ago and honestly it may have been cool 30 years ago,but it's time has come!

The Muppets in 3-D, This show still works for me,it's one of my favorites!!

The Kilimanjaro Safari I've always been dissapointed in what Disney did with this,I agree the whole poaching thing is lame and so are the drivers.I prefer the Rhino Rally at Busch Gardens where at least the drivers are funny and your truck floats into a river!!

I agree with you about the rides you enjoyed, the waterparks and the resorts which are all great!!But how could you say the best meal you got was in the Rainforest Cafe,it's allright but there's so many other places MUCH better!

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

on reflection I dont think the turkey legs are as red as they used to be, that will be Disney cost cutting on the dye.

However I do think there are bigger chunks of pineapple in the Dole Whips.

One thing is certain, no one is as perfect as me, and my childish opinion is therefor worth more, and years of parade ground training have made me able to shout very loudly so that must mean that my opinion is more valid, surely.

I go to Universal, so perhaps that makes me less of a fan?

I often wonder how many posters have multiple accounts, Im sure there are a few. Virtual freinds i suppose.

Oh did I mention I think MGM is a totaly mince park, IMHO, but 4 attractions and a night time show dont make a theme park. Thats a Vegas hotel.

 

[JDM]

Don't misunderstand, I partially agree with you.

Only one of these you mentioned has any relevance to my point - Stitch's Great Escape.
Okay, I see what you're saying.

As I also mentioned, if it involving changing the story or scenario, then I'm probably not going to be a big fan of it.
And as I mentioned, no offense was meant. Just making an observation. (e-mail is SO easy to misinterpret, on both sides)

Am I crazy in thinking you're arguing just for the sake of arguing?
No, not crazy, just mistaken. I truly did not get your point in that paragraph. Believe me, I was trying NOT to be one of those mindless Disney defenders. Apologies if you took it otherwise.

To show you again I do like many of their improvements, Disneyland's HM has made it so Madame Leota's crystal ball now floats around the room. This is an amazing effect, and since it doesn't change the story (or lack thereof), it's the kind of improvement I'd love to see more of.
Makes me wish I could see DL's version. Perhaps they will do something similar with the WDW refurb. But honestly, for me, I enjoyed it without even knowing there was a story, so for me, it's not likely to matter either way. You do have a lot more experience riding it than I do, though, so it's natural that you would be aware of more than I.

...a fad that may fade in the next ten years. Like 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea? (Although I still loved that one!)
Huh? I haven't a clue how this relates.
I was just pointing out how 20K Leagues was never a big Disney franchise, yet was a popular ride for years. So based on that, I don't see the harm in taking advantage of PIRATES gigantic popularity, which sprang from the Disney ride in the first place.

edit: "Attacks" was the wrong word to use. "Disagreements" would be more appropirate.
Glad you made that edit, but I understand your frustration. Some posts WERE attacks. Mine were meant to be not even disagreements, but a friendly debate. If it seemed otherwise, that's my bad.

 

[DisneyNut2007]

He's either referred to or appears in four of the eight scenes (Disney World's version). I'd say that's a pretty high percentage - 50 if my math isn't off. Forgive me, I prefer the original scripts.


Only one of these you mentioned has any relevance to my point - Stitch's Great Escape. I'll give you one more on this, though - Under New Management. In those two cases, they took existing attractions and reworked them using popular characters. The others were original concepts.I would say they did a great injustice to the Tiki Room by doing it, though I would conversely argue they vastly improved Alien Encounter by turning it into Stitch's Great Escape.
I gave specific reasons why I didn't like these so-called improvements. Others, such as Stitch (as mentioned above), I welcome. As I also mentioned, if it involving changing the story or scenario, then I'm probably not going to be a big fan of it.

Seriously, I explained this already. Am I crazy in thinking you're arguing just for the sake of arguing? Okay, you take a general story/scenario and add a specific new thing to it, which ultimately alters the end of the story. Is this not compromising the original idea? Have you not changed it?

Exactly my point. She's been there all along, but it's pretty much left up to your imagination what happened and how she got there. Now, Disneyland's "enhancements" show pictures of her with her husbands, and as you pass the men's heads disappear. Also, she is now a video projection that wields an axe instead of a candle, saying stuff like, "I do...I DID!" They're telling you why she's there, and to me it ruins the fun of imagining what might have happened.
To show you again I do like many of their improvements, Disneyland's HM has made it so Madame Leota's crystal ball now floats around the room. This is an amazing effect, and since it doesn't change the story (or lack thereof), it's the kind of improvement I'd love to see more of.

Huh? I haven't a clue how this relates.

I don't think I'll ever come to accept the new version, just as I never embraced the PC version. I'll still ride it, of course, but my deepest hope is that it will someday go back to the original form, and that if they added scenes they would just be audio animatronic improvements like the dueling pirates at Disneyland Paris. Imagination is a wonderful thing...if we're allowed to use it.
Sorry for holding this thread hostage for so long. I'll try to refrain from responding to future attacks.
edit: "Attacks" was the wrong word to use. "Disagreements" would be more appropirate.

Jack is in only THREE scenes in the ride, not four, which is actually a rather small percentage.

Get used to change CThaddeus. Also, the changing of the Tiki Room show does NOT do it injustice.

 

[ryguy]

I thought the original post was very thoughtful and well written. I agree with a lot of what she had to say. However I do think Iger is doing a great job in his first year or so on the job. Its clear he is looking to reinvest in the parks. To me the parks are the bread and butter of the entertainment giant, the movies are secondary now. I would argue that most people when thinking of Disney think about a Disney destination rather than Disney movies or cartoons. Which to me is a good thing. Hopefully we will see more updates and continued "plusing" to the all the rides at WDW. I think the original rides with new technology worked in will really enhance the overall guest experience at the Disney Parks. Iger gets this, (I think) which is good for all of us. :wave:

 

[slappy magoo]

Walmart it is then

You got it. Their coasters are bloody terrifying. Ride the Inadequate Health Care Plan, Unpaid Overtime Abyss, Uneaten Lunch Mountain...spooooooky

As far as the OP goes, if the OP can't see the inherent humor in a post that essentially says "I had a great trip but here are the eleventy-seven hundred things I had a problem with," then I think this thread has a serious "tomato, tomahto" issue.

 

[I-4Warrior]

In regards to the original post, everyone is certainly entitled to their opinions, I certainly don't agree with the vast majority of what you wrote (it kind of comes across as the two old guys in the balcony during the Muppet show), but you're free to say whatever you want. The only thing I will get truly hot under the collar about is this: How dare you drag down the name of BOMA!!?!?! mmmmmm..... Boma :slurp: Again, the opinions of one individual shouldn't be enough to ruin anyones day (Providing you leave Boma out of it :ROFLOL: )

 

[PLTram]

I'll state a few opinions on your post:

First of all you say that the animatronics aren't as impressive as they were in 1964 because in 1964 it was something new,it's been 43 years later and believe me that the animatronic figures of today are much more realistic.The difference is that back then people were more impressed by them,even though they looked much more fake than today's!!

You've got a good point there. I do admit that the newer AAs are much more realistic than the ones I saw at the 64 World's Fair. I just think with the advent of digital trickery in film and real animated robots like the Honda ASIMO (Google it), the imagineers have to keep striving to make the AAs more realistic to impress us as they did 40 years ago.

When I saw the ASIMO robot actually walking on its own a few years ago, I was just about as impressed as when I first saw the Disney AAs. One of my problems with the AAs is that while nearly fluid and lifelike from the waist up, they all seem bolted to the floor and dead from the waist down (there's a Henny Youngman joke about my first wife in there somewhere ). The only exception to this that I noticed was the Stitch AA, whose feet seemed to move (though it was probably just trickery as the bottom of the tube obscures your view).

 

[PLTram]

. The only thing I will get truly hot under the collar about is this: How dare you drag down the name of BOMA!!?!?! mmmmmm..... Boma :slurp:

I said that I found 90% of the food to be lousy. Boma probably fell into the 10% of my good eating experiences, though I didn't love it. It seemed virtually every dish I tried (and I tried most everything) seemed to be sweet. I like a little variety in my eating; one sweet, one salty, one sour, or whatever that old Pennsylvania Dutch rule of thumb is....

By the way, after reading so much about Dole Whips (I don't know how I've missed them over the years), I made a point to try one. Old sourpuss (me) of course was unimpressed. It was good, but I don't see what all the fuss is about....but my wife loved it!

 

[JDM]

I like a little variety in my eating; one sweet, one salty, one sour, or whatever that old Pennsylvania Dutch rule of thumb is....

Thread-drift be damned....
I LOVE PA DUTCH COOKING! I grew up in that area and there's nothing like it! There should be an Amish pavilion in EPCOT!!!!