Another MK smoking area goes up in smoke

[Nubs70]

But his statistics don't speak to the issue. (I never said that people don't drink or smoke in DC. They're just not smoking in the restaurants and bars.) If banning smoking has had a negative economic impact on a majority of businesses in cities where it has been banned, then please post statistics.

Point is:

1. Smoking rates are no different in DC than other areas.
2. Your inferrential observation of increased restaurant population.

Given the hypothesis that smoking bans in restaurants will result in lower patronage.
Your observation points to the negative of the hypothesis.

Do you have statistics to validate increased restaurant patronage?
Is increased restaurant opening attributable to the smoking bans or some other factor?
Is the connection simply correlative?

I hypothesize that the smoking ban is correlative with the causal factors weighted towards the increase in purchasing power that has grown in the DC/NOVA area.

 

[Redhawk]

Point is:

1. Smoking rates are no different in DC than other areas.
2. Your inferrential observation of increased restaurant population.

Given the hypothesis that smoking bans in restaurants will result in lower patronage.
Your observation points to the negative of the hypothesis.

Do you have statistics to validate increased restaurant patronage?
Is increased restaurant opening attributable to the smoking bans or some other factor?
Is the connection simply correlative?

I hypothesize that the smoking ban is correlative with the causal factors weighted towards the increase in purchasing power that has grown in the DC/NOVA area.

Do you really think that display will impress anyone? Please post statistics that show cities where smoking was banned had a subsequent decline in restaurant and bar patronage directly attributable to the ban.

My whole point was that smokers who "vote with their feet" and don't go to WDW aren't going to bankrupt the place.

 

[kchapman0927]

Well, depends on your addiction. I've tried both, and frankly, I'm more addicted to the nervous habit of fiddling with the cig...that's what's hard to break.

Am I addicted to the Nicotine? Sure. But, I rarely have cravings, outside of mornings, with coffee, when drinking or after a particularly good meal.

Rather, I have the issue of "smoking when I don't really want to"...driving, light up. Stepping outside for a phone call? (I work in a communal office, but everyone there works for me, and there are phone calls they do not need to hear) Light up. Programming? Light up.

And, for those reasons, the shape and feel of the ecigs that do look and feel like real cigs, is a significant factor to me.

There's a reason I never got into smoking a pipe...why should I want to replace my cigarette with one?

I completely understand about the habit of holding a cigarette in your hand. I think everyone goes through that. I know a lot of people who use the smaller ecigs and its just fine for them. Thats what is so great about vaping, you can customize the way you want to do it. I work construction and a lot of times there is no electric available to charge batteries so I needed a bigger device for longer battery life. Its whatever keeps you off the real cigarettes.

 

[Nubs70]

A lot of effort to show statistics no one cares about. Fact: Smoking is not allowed in bars snd restautants in the DC Metro area and business is still booming.

Point is are there other causal factors in DC Metro that offset any negaved impacts brought by smoking bans. Increased purchasing power that has grown in DC Metro has more of an effect in growing the restaurant population than increased patronage due to non smoking policies.

 

[Redhawk]

Point is are there other causal factors in DC Metro that offset any negaved impacts brought by smoking bans. Increased purchasing power that has grown in DC Metro has more of an effect in growing the restaurant population than increased patronage due to non smoking policies.

True, but there are plenty of studies that show smoking bans don't have a negative impact on business, and sometimes have a positive one. We don't have to go round and round about DC specifically.

 

[BigTxEars]

It's inevitable, smoking in any public places of consequnece is going the way of the Dodo bird. This is just one more step in that direction.

 

[marni1971]

True, but there are plenty of studies that show smoking bans don't have a negative impact on business, and sometimes have a positive one. We don't have to go round and round about DC specifically.

The UK banned smoking in public indoor places including pubs and nightclubs in 2007.

The media is full of the detrimental effect that ban had, with thousands of pubs closing each year since with by far the biggest reason attributed to the ban.

On average 4 pubs each DAY close in the UK.

Not defending anything. Just saying.

 

[Nick Pappagiorgio]

The whole e-cigaret thing seems to be becoming a problem. I sat maybe 5-7 of them in the three days I was in the parks last week. The only time I saw someone get "caught" was when someone was using one in broad daylight, in the middle of Storybook Circus. To which she responded "its not smoking". The rest were all in queues, restrooms, and other less traveled areas.

Problem is that they can keep them in their pocket and within maybe ten seconds of use there is no evidence.

 

[Nubs70]

The whole e-cigaret thing seems to be becoming a problem. I sat maybe 5-7 of them in the three days I was in the parks last week. The only time I saw someone get "caught" was when someone was using one in broad daylight, in the middle of Storybook Circus. To which she responded "its not smoking". The rest were all in queues, restrooms, and other less traveled areas.

Problem is that they can keep them in their pocket and within maybe ten seconds of use there is no evidence.

Who says they were smoking nicotine? Ecigs can range from simple flavoring to nicotine even pot.

 

[pheneix]

Once I get a vape stick with the appropriate oil, then I may class it up. Would that even make Stitch funny?

Nope, Mary Jane can't do anything for the WDW parks. They are a total loss and miserable to visit sober, drunk, or high.

Disneyland in Anaheim, on the other hand, is a stoner's paradise even with all the rides presently shut down.

 

[The Crafty Veteran]

Bars and restaurants being closed down had more to do with the economy than banned smokers.

 

[flynnibus]

Virginia (where Scout was referring to) actually allows smoking in bars IF they have a non-smoking sections with certain elements. Many around here made modifications to allow smoking to continue in the main bar... most just stopped allowing smoking. Can't say I saw any difference in businesses.. except I can come home not smelling like a smoke stack if I chose

 

[kchapman0927]

The whole e-cigaret thing seems to be becoming a problem. I sat maybe 5-7 of them in the three days I was in the parks last week. The only time I saw someone get "caught" was when someone was using one in broad daylight, in the middle of Storybook Circus. To which she responded "its not smoking". The rest were all in queues, restrooms, and other less traveled areas.

Problem is that they can keep them in their pocket and within maybe ten seconds of use there is no evidence.

If there is no evidence then why is it a problem. It hurt no one.

 

[Nick Pappagiorgio]

Who says they were smoking nicotine? Ecigs can range from simple flavoring to nicotine even pot.

I don't think I ever said they what these people were "smoking". I don't know what they were using and it isnt even relevant to my point.

All I was saying in that post is if Disney has decided that all forms of "smoking" are restricted to smoking areas, they have a serious issue with enforcement.

 

[flynnibus]

Point is:

1. Smoking rates are no different in DC than other areas.
2. Your inferrential observation of increased restaurant population.

Given the hypothesis that smoking bans in restaurants will result in lower patronage.
Your observation points to the negative of the hypothesis.

Do you have statistics to validate increased restaurant patronage?
Is increased restaurant opening attributable to the smoking bans or some other factor?
Is the connection simply correlative?

I hypothesize that the smoking ban is correlative with the causal factors weighted towards the increase in purchasing power that has grown in the DC/NOVA area.

The 'anti-ban' on the economic front was more powerful when the conversation was 'bars in this town ban smoking, while this town doesn't..' making flight a problem. But now in the DC area, all three areas (MD/VA/DC) have smoking bans, so 'flight' really isn't an issue.. where are you going to go? Are those bar regulars really going to stay home because they can't smoke? Or the clubbers?

After the bans went into place, it was a popular topic on the news.. and interviews with business owners generally leaned towards improvement, not drops.

I can say from my ancedotal evidence, I know many people who are far more willing to go out to bars now that they know that one of the huge negatives (smoke and stink) are no longer an issue. I would argue, the gains have out paced any losses.

 

[Nick Pappagiorgio]

If there is no evidence then why is it a problem. It hurt no one.

Well for those 10 seconds someone else might have inhaled the second hand nicotine, so it could potentially be a problem if that person doesn't want to inhale the vapors.

It doesn't really matter if it did or didn't hurt anyone, it is simply the rule. There are plenty of rules that one could violate in the parks and not hurt any other guest. But it is still a rule.

 

[Redhawk]

The UK banned smoking in public indoor places including pubs and nightclubs in 2007.

The media is full of the detrimental effect that ban had, with thousands of pubs closing each year since with by far the biggest reason attributed to the ban.

On average 4 pubs each DAY close in the UK.

Not defending anything. Just saying.

The UK, yes. But look at studies in the US , where WDW is located.

 

[Nubs70]

The 'anti-ban' on the economic front was more powerful when the conversation was 'bars in this town ban smoking, while this town doesn't..' making flight a problem. But now in the DC area, all three areas (MD/VA/DC) have smoking bans, so 'flight' really isn't an issue.. where are you going to go? Are those bar regulars really going to stay home because they can't smoke? Or the clubbers?

After the bans went into place, it was a popular topic on the news.. and interviews with business owners generally leaned towards improvement, not drops.

I can say from my ancedotal evidence, I know many people who are far more willing to go out to bars now that they know that one of the huge negatives (smoke and stink) are no longer an issue. I would argue, the gains have out paced any losses.

Absolutely agree. Both smokers and non smokers need to eat. As a practitioner of the evil act, I too prefer to drink and dine in a non smoking establishment. The quality of food and service dictate where I will eat and drink not if I can smoke at the table. After dinner or between drinks, I do not mind stepping out for the after dinner smoke.

 

[marni1971]

The UK, yes. But look at studies in the US , where WDW is located.

Our cultures, peoples and mindsets are very different.

And your paying guests are from these different cultures.

 

[Goofyernmost]

Its funny, but in a conversation with a friend last week, we came to the conclusion that America will probably ban cigarettes and leagalize marajuana within the next 10 years.

That's good because many prisons have become smoke free environments. Wouldn't want those criminals dying of cigarettes would we. I don't know the numbers but, I would think that nearly 100% of the criminal element are smokers. I know the law is to protect the guards, who are also probably smokers, but a large building full of people having nicotine withdrawal does not sound like a recipe for a safe place to be.

Makes me think... This culture is so pro-alcohol and anti smoking. A person that is a smoker and cannot smoke has a way of becoming easily agitated and when smoking is usually pretty docile if left alone. A person that drinks is usually pretty nice and quiet when sober but, can become easily agitated when drinking. So maybe actively smoking brings a peaceful environment whereas active drinking can easily bring about problems. Gosh, it's so hard to decide which one is the better, isn't it.