Analysts project 10 pct attendance decline at Disney's U.S. parks

[hillernj]

numbers down... so what?

listen the markets do this, the economy does this, hell even attendance does this, i'll just wait until october when i go and enjoy short lines and being able to get a beach chair by the pools

 

[yankspy]

:shrug: Not sure about that question......

Not sure if you want to answer or not sure what the question is? I am asking if you have two different screen names?

 

[alecshawn]

Not sure if you want to answer or not sure what the question is? I am asking if you have two different screen names?

No, i have only one....i was confused about the reason or as to why you would ask that.

 

[dave2822]

Yea, Disney's drop off in attendance is due to the company not adding enough new rides and shows, that must be it!

I mean take a company like Universal, they've been adding new rides like wild-fire! They must be the glowing example of doing well in a poor economy!

Oh wait!

Profits at Universal Orlando’s parent company dropped 55 percent during the final three months of 2008, as the two-park resort was buffeted by falling attendance and debt-market turmoil.
Net income at Universal City Development Partners fell $9.3 million for the period, dropping from $16.8 million during the fourth quarter of 2007 to $7.5 million in the fourth quarter of 2008
The company said a substantial portion of the drop -- $5.2 million – was due to losses related to interest-rate swaps that soured as credit markets dried up. Universal’s operating profit, which strips out income taxes and financing expenses, fell 2 percent for the quarter, from $40.7 million to $39.8 million.
Universal had previously announced its full-year results without breaking out its performance in the fourth quarter, when overall economic conditions rapidly deteriorated.
Total revenues at the resort fell 3 percent during the quarter, compared with 1 percent for the full year. Universal blamed the drop on sliding attendance and slower sales at Universal Parks & Resorts Vacations, which sells vacation packages directly to consumers and through travel-industry intermediaries.
Combined attendance at Universal Studios Florida and Islands of Adventure fell about 4 percent for the quarter, compared with a 2 percent decline recorded for the full year. International attendance rose 7 percent for the quarter but was more than offset by a 9 percent drop in domestic attendance.
Universal said the economic slump is continuing to squeeze its parks so far this year. Results in January and February were down “mid-single digits due the economic challenges,” though the company noted it is imposing cost cuts to offset some of the impact.
The resort also said it expects to spend $110 million on capital projects in 2009, as it continues construction of the Wizarding World of Harry Potter and completes the Hollywood Rip Ride Rockit roller coaster. That’s less than the $149.3 million it spent in 2008 but still far higher than the amounts it was spending before beginning work on the attractions.

:lookaroun:lookaroun:lookaroun

 

[SirGoofy]

^But who is going to see a huge jump in attendance once the economy recovers? A resort with no new offerings? Or one with a very cool looking roller coaster and an entire land based around the biggest franchise in the past 20 years?

 

[yankspy]

No, i have only one....i was confused about the reason or as to why you would ask that.

No reason, you just remind me of him since you have remarkable similarities. Both 38 year old firemen from Ohio who have "Life is Great" in their signatures and have their favorite rides listed as a tie between Space and Splash.

 

[dave2822]

^But who is going to see a huge jump in attendance once the economy recovers? A resort with no new offerings? Or one with a very cool looking roller coaster and an entire land based around the biggest franchise in the past 20 years?

In theory, possibly, but not for sure. Busch Gardens Tampa implemented a variety of new attractions in 2007, but their attendance remained level.

Does Disney need to respond to these new offerings? Absolutely. Have they yet? Well, no. But boy isn't it easy to sit here behind a computer, and say "I think Disney should build another $100 M E-ticket!"

I'm not saying that the company always makes the right decisions, but I do actually believe they have more information than we do about their current situation and are acting in its best interest

 

[slappy magoo]

Do you also go by the name firemandisney by any chance?

If he did, it's only because he's got too damn much for one fine young man to say! When he grows up he's going to be a fireman, so's he got to work on his people skills NOW! And you asking questions is NOT HELPING HIM IMPROVE HIS PEOPLE SKILLS, DAMN IT!

 

[alecshawn]

If he did, it's only because he's got too damn much for one fine young man to say! When he grows up he's going to be a fireman, so's he got to work on his people skills NOW! And you asking questions is NOT HELPING HIM IMPROVE HIS PEOPLE SKILLS, DAMN IT!

Thanks for looking out for me. I appreciate it.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

In theory, possibly, but not for sure. Busch Gardens Tampa implemented a variety of new attractions in 2007, but their attendance remained level.

Does Disney need to respond to these new offerings? Absolutely. Have they yet? Well, no. But boy isn't it easy to sit here behind a computer, and say "I think Disney should build another $100 M E-ticket!"

I'm not saying that the company always makes the right decisions, but I do actually believe they have more information than we do about their current situation and are acting in its best interest

They will be taking all decisions based on a management strategy, a stratagey designed to keep investors happy rather than customers, sadly it seems to be the same tired old failed strategy as the end of the Eisner era, cut services, investment, staff, quality, in the push to improve margin. I would imagine given the nature of the services they provide that Disney is like Walmart and cash rich, an economic down turn with low interest rates is exactly the time to get pushed on with capital programs labour and materials are cheaper and such projects can be pushed for positive marketing as supporting job creation.

As many have said it seems they would rather sit on the money, cut what they feel they can get away with, and say wow look Mr Wall St arent we just dandy. The sacrificing of the quality or the perception of quality associated with the Disney brand seems a price they are willing to pay.

 

[MousDad]

No reason, you just remind me of him since you have remarkable similarities. Both 38 year old firemen from Ohio who have "Life is Great" in their signatures and have their favorite rides listed as a tie between Space and Splash.

I love how you said "no reason," and then listed 5. :lol:

 

[dave2822]

They will be taking all decisions based on a management strategy, a stratagey designed to keep investors happy rather than customers, sadly it seems to be the same tired old failed strategy as the end of the Eisner era, cut services, investment, staff, quality, in the push to improve margin. I would imagine given the nature of the services they provide that Disney is like Walmart and cash rich, an economic down turn with low interest rates is exactly the time to get pushed on with capital programs labour and materials are cheaper and such projects can be pushed for positive marketing as supporting job creation.

As many have said it seems they would rather sit on the money, cut what they feel they can get away with, and say wow look Mr Wall St arent we just dandy. The sacrificing of the quality or the perception of quality associated with the Disney brand seems a price they are willing to pay.

I agree that in an effort to save money some offerings may be reduced, but I just don't think it is as drastic as everyone is making it out to be.

Sure they've put the red light on a few projects, but they've also finished a couple of projects at the Studios in TSM and American Idol that in my opinion were very well done, quality attractions that should be treated as successes.

If they had another e-ticket in the works, I think that would make everyone feel better. But this is the worst state of economics in decades upon decades, and like it or not, they do have to act in the best interest of a company; now I am the first one to say that Disney's attention to detail, guest service, and unique/expansive offerings are some of the main reasons why I love the company so much, but I don't think they are doing away with them. What evidence of that have they given us?

- There have been management lay-offs, yes, but I've always felt that there were too many managers as it is (and too many that did NOT understand the Disney standard) :shrug:

So what other major things have happened within the last 8-10 months that makes everyone feel like the sky is falling (besides of course, the state of world economics)? Because I certainly don't think that just because Disney hasn't announced another major e-ticket this means they are neglecting the resort by any means. IMO :animwink:

EDIT: And let me add one other thing (I don't post much, I guess I should get my money's worth!)

I think that you can get caught up in discussion boards and fan sites and forget the actual state of the parks ... I mean the more and more you read about things the more you tend to just believe it and forget that there are other sides to the puzzle ...

There are some significant things happening with TWDC internally, but has it had an external effect? Go to the parks today and is there a marked difference?

Remember that hard-core fans make up a very, very small percentage of the overall crowd. Even if all 60,000 members came on this website and said "I am dis-satisified with Disney!" that would make up .0015% of the overall average yearly attendance at the resort; now Disney's guest satisfaction ratings are still just as high as they've always been; does it make business sense to satisfy the niche (and saying .0015% is a niche market is an overstatement) market at the expense of the general public?

Corporate strategy is about knowing what you can do and what you CAN'T do at a given time. Now, if the company just lays around stagnant for 3 more years, continues lay-offs, cuts services, doesn't add new attractions, I will eat every single word I wrote. But for now ... I am willing to give it some time.

 

[Pumbas Nakasak]

TSM, is hardly a major addition, enjoyable, but not worth the massive wait times, the MK is offering less than when I first visited in 94, they created AK and then did a Universal and let it stagnate, they finally add an e-ticket and within no time its centre piece is not functioning, and to think that they spent so long building it. The studios is the worst park, two of the best rides a load of great ideas that have become tired and worn and a whole load of nothing else. Epcot has had some TLC but is still in dire need of a fresh attraction in world showcase and something done with the closed half used pavilions.

All of this is IMHO of course and not empirically measurable. Im no expert on drains, but if it looks like poo and smells like poo the chances I have discovered poo.

 

[bjlc57]

let me tell you a quote from Walt..

in the Book.. BE LIKE WALT.. there is a direct quote from Walt Disney.. stating that there "will always be 10 cent coffee at Disneyland..."

meaning that the place will always be affordable. right now, its bordering on not being affordable with the exception of the discounts.

Disney never had any problems and flowed through many recessions until Eisner decided to over double the price.. ( in steps...).. You never heard during other recessions WDW is doing poorly.. or laying off. . Never..

the truth is that You make x amount of money and it may more then the average person.. and you don't care.. YOU HAVE YOURS and Screw anyone else who can't afford to come.

MORE FOR ME is the attitude.. or Disney is for the elite because that's the way it was made..

and that's quite contrary to Walt's attitude and intentions for Disneyland and Disney World.


and its been since the BEAN COUNTERS AND EISNER, that things have changed.. and now there are Layoffs and a down turn.

well any simple economics chart will show you that you raise the price you start to lose sales.. and the elasticity of Disney's supply chart is finally starting to change.. You have hit the end of the price point..

its like the price of gas.. it hit $4 a gallon and guess what. WE ALL STOPPED DRIVING.. Opec has cut back on delivery of oil and the supply is still going up ( 3 million barrels surplus again last week).. even since the price has dropped.. we have cut back..

and the same is happening with Disney..

 

[jakeman]

the truth is that You make x amount of money and it may more then the average person.. and you don't care.. YOU HAVE YOURS and Screw anyone else who can't afford to come.

When dealing with a luxury item, then yes, that should be the attitude. A trip to Walt Disney World is not a right, nor is it necessary for human survival. It is an expendable commodity.

Whether is a smart business move to price the product out of the lowest bracket is debatable, but the argument that guest who can afford to go should be concerned about those who can't afford to is ridiculous.

This isn't medical care or food or clothing, this is a vacation we are talking about.

 

[fosse76]

You are wrong on EVERY point.
1. Quanity does not trump quality, do you really think six flags is a better park than the M.K., if so, you're on the wrong board.

You're on the wrong board. Six Flags does not compete with Disney. They offer more thrills, and that is their goal. And even the smallest Six Flags parks has more rides than the Magic Kingdom. Not that all of Six Flags' rides are great, but the fact they aren't themed on a Disney-esque level does not make them bad rides.

2. I stated its a priviledge to visit WDW. Which, it is. D.L. when it FIRST opened was "expensive" by economic standards then.

Never said it wasn't a privilege to visit Disney. However, you blatanlty said that people who can't afford shouldn't be able to go. That's an entirely different argument. It's another way of saying that they don't belong there. Which is definitely not true.

Do you think its NOT a priviledge to stay in a Deluxe resort? Or, is that unfair that they cost more?

No. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Though I would argue that Disney's Deluxe Resorts are overpriced, considering the high-end hotels they try to immitate offer more services and cost less money. Even their value resorts are overpriced. You can stay at a similar quality hotel off-site for maybe 40% cheaper. EMH benefits are Disney's only real selling point for on-site properties. And it goes back to our Six Flags model too. They have more rides than Disney and no themeing. They are only open at MOST 6 months in the year. They charge $45 on average admission and around $65 for a season pass. Disney, for a one day visit, offers at most 2/3 the number of rides found at a regional theme park. They are heavily themed. The themeing doesn't make the rides better. Personally, the two experiences are different. I love them both equally. But is it really worth $75 to visit that one Disney park? Since it is a resort destination, Disney doesn't take day-trippers into account. And it possibly loses business as a result.

3. Room rates DO go down..Always have. You can get "codes" all the time for a major discount off rack rates. But to say rates dont go down is technically inaccurate.

No, what you are saying is technically inaccurate. Even with the discounts the room rates still go up. Let's say a room in the 7 days for the price of 4 promotion cost a family $1500. Well if they go the following year after the price increases, they will be paying $1600. The discount is the same, but it is now applied to a higher price. And Disney limits the number of these discounts, so they aren't always guaranteed.

4. Lets see, 1 week in L.A.,Ny,Chicago...or a trip to the beach (most any beach destination) will cost more than the 1 week at Disney. (i know, we've done it). Unless you are talking about a weekend getaway, WDW is one of the best deals going for a family vacation.

BS. As I said, New York would be more expensive than Disney, particularly should the family decide to see a Broadway show or 2. But Chicago is a relatively cheap city to visit, particularly if you aren't hung up on staying a downtown hotel (but even then some hotels are cheaper and better than Disney). LA only becomes more expensive if you visit the several theme parks in the area. I don't know of any beach that would cost more money than Disney, especially since beaches are free to visit. You clearly have expensive tastes in hotel rooms. My family once took a road trip to Niagra Falls, New York City and we even went to the football hall of fame in Ohio. It was still cheaper than a Disney vacation.

WDW cost money to go. Some cant afford it. thats life. The only ones that SHOULD go are the ones that can afford it. (thats pretty much common sense). I cant afford a BMW, that doesnt make it unfair, maybe i should go out and make more $$. THEN, i could buy that BMW. See, i have no issues with not being able to afford something. This isnt a zero sum society, some can do, some cant. Disney is no exception. Thats not unfair. Thats life.

That's not what you said though. You intimated that people who can't afford to go don't deserve to go. And in your original phrasing it was easily interpreted that people who can't afford to go shouldn't be able to afford to go. That is not the same thing as what you said above. But Disney is not a high-end place to visit. Most people in high society frown on places like that and think them "for the masses." While there are always exceptions, most people who stay at even the Deluxe resorts aren't of the societal class that Disney purports to offer these hotels for. And that's fine. If you can afford to stay there, stay there. But don't pretend that Disney is anything more than it really is. It is not a destination for the privileged. No matter how many Deluxe Resorts they build.

 

[alecshawn]

in the Book.. BE LIKE WALT.. there is a direct quote from Walt Disney.. stating that there "will always be 10 cent coffee at Disneyland..."

meaning that the place will always be affordable. right now, its bordering on not being affordable with the exception of the discounts.

Disney never had any problems and flowed through many recessions until Eisner decided to over double the price.. ( in steps...).. You never heard during other recessions WDW is doing poorly.. or laying off. . Never..

the truth is that You make x amount of money and it may more then the average person.. and you don't care.. YOU HAVE YOURS and Screw anyone else who can't afford to come.
state.


MORE FOR ME is the attitude.. or Disney is for the elite because that's the way it was made..

and that's quite contrary to Walt's attitude and intentions for Disneyland and Disney World.


and its been since the BEAN COUNTERS AND EISNER, that things have changed.. and now there are Layoffs and a down turn.

well any simple economics chart will show you that you raise the price you start to lose sales.. and the elasticity of Disney's supply chart is finally starting to change.. You have hit the end of the price point..

its like the price of gas.. it hit $4 a gallon and guess what. WE ALL STOPPED DRIVING.. Opec has cut back on delivery of oil and the supply is still going up ( 3 million barrels surplus again last week).. even since the price has dropped.. we have cut back..

and the same is happening with Disney..

No, i dont care what anyone else makes. Why should i?
If anyone on the board makes MUCH more than me, and i know alot do...then GOOD for them! I admire them. Those who make less, not my concern. Nor should it be.
You, seem to have an issue with success or economic freedom.
You comments border on socialism or some psuedo polyanna (spell?) state.
WDW is in buisiness just like any other company. They will charge as much as they can, just like ANY business in a free society.
If one cant go, then so be it. Thats not my concern. Its up to the individual to acheive whatever leisure activity in life they see fit.
Remember, WDW is a liesure time destination, it isnt a benifit, that we are intitled to.
It IS affordable to millions and millions of people, not everyone but many.
Thats life, get over it.
Im curious as to what you do for a living? May i ask? I'm interested.
Im a firefighter/medic. My wife works in payrolll at a hospital. We are VERY middle class, our gross family income is only appox. 85k-90k and we have 2 small kids. Any yes, the mortgage....
Thats not upper class at all, we can EASILY afford WDW every 2 years. But i have to save and work some O.T.

 

[sknydave]

in the Book.. BE LIKE WALT.. there is a direct quote from Walt Disney.. stating that there "will always be 10 cent coffee at Disneyland..."

meaning that the place will always be affordable. right now, its bordering on not being affordable with the exception of the discounts.

Disney never had any problems and flowed through many recessions until Eisner decided to over double the price.. ( in steps...).. You never heard during other recessions WDW is doing poorly.. or laying off. . Never..

the truth is that You make x amount of money and it may more then the average person.. and you don't care.. YOU HAVE YOURS and Screw anyone else who can't afford to come.

MORE FOR ME is the attitude.. or Disney is for the elite because that's the way it was made..

and that's quite contrary to Walt's attitude and intentions for Disneyland and Disney World.


and its been since the BEAN COUNTERS AND EISNER, that things have changed.. and now there are Layoffs and a down turn.

well any simple economics chart will show you that you raise the price you start to lose sales.. and the elasticity of Disney's supply chart is finally starting to change.. You have hit the end of the price point..

its like the price of gas.. it hit $4 a gallon and guess what. WE ALL STOPPED DRIVING.. Opec has cut back on delivery of oil and the supply is still going up ( 3 million barrels surplus again last week).. even since the price has dropped.. we have cut back..

and the same is happening with Disney..

Why did Walt Disney create Club 33 in Disneyland?

 

[bjlc57]

I personally know...

Im a firefighter/medic. My wife works in payrolll at a hospital. We are VERY middle class, our gross family income is only appox. 85k-90k and we have 2 small kids. Any yes, the mortgage....


I personally know next to no one in my town that is making that kind of money...

 

[Missing20K]

Im a firefighter/medic. My wife works in payrolll at a hospital. We are VERY middle class, our gross family income is only appox. 85k-90k and we have 2 small kids. Any yes, the mortgage....


I personally know next to no one in my town that is making that kind of money...

Hmm, well then no one in the world must make that kind of money. Not trying to be mean, or pick out a post, but come on, just because you personally don't know anyone making that kind of money in your town, means that it's impossible, or that the poster is lying??

I personally don't make that kind of money, but people do. I personally don't know any billionaires, but they do exist.