All Tomorrowland, All the time (Has Disney given up on the TTA?)

[Iceviper123]

No...it's a theme park.:lol:

It's unique foundation and it's origin is all but a theme park.
IMO this makes Epcot the most unique place of all, being that Epcot changed the way people thought of urban planning and living environments. (something im fascinated with btw )
Epcot was truly groundbreaking, molding Epcot to be more like another theme park makes me cringe.

 

[SirGoofy]

So then update them. You are thinking like TDO. The show needs to be maintained.

And that's realistic? I would think every 5 years, and not even, if they were to do things right.

An update schedule that you're asking for is unrealistic, yes. You're asking them to update almost all of the park every 5 years. :shrug:

 

[imagineer boy]

Trust me, if they were to build things in the style of something that could be timless (almost like Horizons, save for the fashion!( and easily update-able, it would work fine.

Someone else get it.

Agreed, I think one could easily come up with an architectural style that's sleek, futuristic, and timeless for future world.

No...it's a theme park.:lol:

Its a permanent world's fair disguised as a theme park.

 

[EPCOT Explorer]

An update schedule that you're asking for is unrealistic, yes. You're asking them to update almost all of the park every 5 years. :shrug:

Are you not reading my posts? I said AT MOST. I'm not saying every 5 years, for everything, only some time sensitive things that need it.

And shouldn't they be refurbing things anyway?:shrug:

Agreed, I think one could easily come up with an architectural style that's sleek, futuristic, and timeless for future world.



Its a permanent world's fair disguised as a theme park.

Exactly.

 

[SirGoofy]

And shouldn't they be refurbing things anyway?:shrug:

Yea. Refurbing and updating out of date attractions is completely different.

 

[SeaCastle]

Excatly what a theme park should not be.

The following is more related to Disneyland but is applicable to EPCOT; I direct your attention here.

 

[HMF]

I have always dreamed in working in WDI.
It worries me about this being a strong trend in the future.
I don't think WDI pays any homage or the amount of respect of the beautifully crafted environments and experiences that fellow imagineers created.

If enough people like you get into WDI in the future then maybe you can reverse the trend.:animwink:

 

[TinkerBell9988]

The following is more related to Disneyland but is applicable to EPCOT; I direct your attention here.

That is by far my favorite post on that blog.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Wow, I don't log on all day and there's a 16 page thread. Well here's some comments on the first 5 pages:

Anyway, here my $2.

Lately, however, Disney has replaced most of the classics with cheap, cartoon promotions that serve nothing more than to sell some stuffed figures or pay ridiculous amounts for a photo op. Moreso, the original theme has been neglected. The Transit Authority is a lazy attempt at trying to give a guide to the land.

This whole situation is disappointing, and I personally don't want to see another TL 1970 or even Disneyland's version.

First off... inflation has really hit the US hard - since when did two cents become two dollars?

Now Sir Goofy is gonna mention this later on, but the infusion of characters isn't the problem. In some cases it works, and in some cases it doesn't. It doesn't work on Stitch's Great Escape for the most part, but it does work with Nemo in The Seas Pavilion. That's based on attendance, not fanboi opinion.

that is the problem.
WDI needs to stop focusing on a demographic of age and
start conceptualizing attractions the appeal to EVERY age. (walt's original idea)
its as if the parents feel obligated to ride the attractions as opposed as enjoying them and making memories with their children.

The only attraction that meets this demand is arguably Kilimanjaro Safaris, let's demo everything else... or get a marketing degree.

Exactly. That is why Epcot is far superior when it comes to family rides.

I agree.
Epcot taught lessons to adults and children alike.
Epcot is a healthy enviroment full of history and information for all families to enjoy.
Everyone who goes to Epcot will take home something from it.
It's sad though that Epcot succumbed to thrilling rather than learning with mission and test track.

I know but back in the days they tried hard as possible for every family to enjoy.
I was talking more of a mind set than reality.
I know it's not possible but you can strive.

EPCOT changed because it had to. The argument can be made that the changes disrupted the initial focus of the park. That's because they did. The initial focus of the park, and it's edutainment messages had grown stale. The revelation was that they needed thrill rides, and people were upset that Test Track and Mission: Space were different from World of Motion and Horizons.

People go to Disney to see and experience things that they never would find anywhere else.
When your have attractions based on some property its like you are familiar with it and its sorda takes the excitement out of it.
It's like directors doing adaptations from a book to a movie as opposed to having a director making a beautiful original idea into a movie it's more exotic because you are not familiar with it.
I'm not saying adaptations can't be beautiful, but for Disney parks people demand experiences that they can't find anywhere else.

Characters aren't the problem. People love characters. There are demographics (namely children) that will go on an attraction, or see a show purely for the character. What gives an attraction mass appeal is the implementation of those characters within the attraction.

I've said time and time again that theming and story make an attraction, not the topic surrounding that theming and story.

Splash Mountain is based off a movie that has strong racial undertones and Disney has done everything in their power to keep it from being re-released. Yet, they were able to create an attraction with immersive theming and story based on this movie, and it's one of the most popular attractions they've ever made. I'd estimate that more than 95% of the people that have been on Splash Mountain have never ever heard of Song of the South.

What are you talking about?
They were quality attractions to begin with.

This was about the EPCOT attractions. They were quality attractions, and much like many of you, I would have preferred additions as opposed to replacements. For example, if Test Track and Mission: Space had been additions to the park instead of replacements, I doubt the fanboi reaction would be as negative.

Since they had to advertise they crap out of them.
I say let the integrity of the attraction speak for itself.

IMO, 20K Leagues Under the Sea was boring, and The Nemo Submarine Voyage left underwhelmed for the wait.

Ah...but see there's a difference, and this is one of the biggest problems of fanbois(which I'll get into in the next paragraph). Jungle Cruise doesn't need a change. It still pulls in terrific to staggering numbers. The attractions that most people bemoan losing didn't.

And the huge problem with fanboys right now is that they blame the problems on the characters. It's not the characters' faults. It's just that some of the attractions aren't quality. I honestly couldn't care less what character is used as long as it fits the land and is a quality attraction.

And you think that the vast majority also do not demand characters? I think you should re-evaluate this view point.

For someone that I've disagreed with on here, SirGoofy hit this on the head 100%.

I have not lost faith in Imagineering. What troubles me is when attractions are shoehorned into existing locations under 8 other restrictions that are passed down by people whose only level of creativity is how they creatively cook the books.

 

[RSoxNo1]

OK, Sorry for the double post - but I felt I had to break them up.

Same here.

Also, I guess it does make sense that Rafiki's is a pain to get too.
I am really holding back for Beatly Kingdomme. :lookaroun

:lol: Probably forever.

The long rumoured MI land seems more likely now.

According to Martin, MI was never coming to DAK.

So many of the things I've heard about the Animal Kingdom - at this point I don't believe any of them. What makes sense to me is:
1. Camp Minnie Mickey will be re-themed into something else.
2. Festival of the Lion King will be moved to Rafiki's Planet Watch or Africa
3. If it's moved to Rafiki's Planet Watch there needs to be a walking path instead of just the train.

After seeing an interview with Rohde about everything being about nature rather than discovery I doubt we will ever see that. I hope somehow we get an awesome lion King ride to connect Africa and CMM.

The Festival of the Lion King Show would serve this purpose.

Getting back to MILF... our family thinks MILF is fun. What's so terrible about it? Is it just because it replaced something that some people really loved?

My criticism of MILF (which would carry over to TSMM and maybe others I can't think of right now) is: it's all digital--why not mix things up a little? Why can't MILF have something like 4 different scripts that are either random or on a rotation? It seems like it would increase the re-ride value...

MILF should be different every time. The Monster's are live actors.:wave:

Very well said.
I do agree on both counts. MILF could be timeless too if DIsney just managed to fix up the concept.

Monster's Inc Laugh Floor and Turtle Talk with Crush are kind of hit or miss attractions. Often times the Jungle Cruise is the same way. Anything that relies on the abilities of the performers for the bulk of the entertainment is going to be like that. It's the problem with these living character/personalized attractions.

In Disneyland, they re-did the Jungle Cruise script, the variation from ride to ride was minimal with the difference primarily being the individual's timing.

I would also argue that Turtle Talk is better at DCA, because they allow adults to ask questions instead of just children. With children, you will occasionally get the child that will create a hilarious situation, but for the most part there's only a handful of questions that a child is going to ask.

With the recent "retro-izing" of the TTA and the Space Mountain refurb, it seems to me like TL is being informally divided into two areas: a "Toon" area consisting of the Buzz, Stitch, and Monsters Inc. attractions, and a "Classics" area consisting of Space Mountain, CoP, the Speedway, and the TTA/PeopleMover.

Also, I know everyone here pretty much thinks that SGE is an abomination unto the LORD, (and I'm not a fan, either) but what else could realistically go in that space? The only two shows that have ever been there are the "rocket ride" and the "escaped monster". Flight to the Moon/Mission to Mars would put modern audiences to sleep, and a more "extreme", non-toon version of the "escaped creature" show was already tried and deemed not family-friendly enough for the MK. So what other options are there? I honestly don't see how the thing could be improved without ripping the innards out of the show building and installing something totally new.

Nope, a super strict cohesive storyline is what created this mess. They tried to theme all of Tomorrowland around one cohesive storyline with attractions that didn't last, and now we have 48 page debates about the destruction of a "great" story with the change of a narration which was due for a change a good 6 years.

Now look at the other lands. Changes can be made with out people screaming and crying about the smallest change. Sure, there can be some attractions that bind the lands together loosely, but for the most part the attractions were independent of each other, something that works much, much better, IMO.



AL is terrific.

The TTA is the attraction that is supposed to bring the land together. It did so previously by referring to the land as an "Interplanetary Convention Center".

As for what could have gone in the Stitch's Great Escape location... this type of show concept has failed what, 4 times now? Sure there were fans of each incarnation (ok, maybe not Stitch), but things have been shoehorned into that area since Flight to the Moon closed. Each time they replaced the existing show, I assume that Imagineering received notes similar to the following:
1. We need something to replace Flight to the Moon/Mission to Mars/Alien Encounter
2. You have a limited budget - so you'll probably have to utilize the same set up that didn't work for the previous incarnation.
3. Oh yeah, it should probably have something to do with space or aliens.

DHS needs an identity.

DAK needs more Animal attractions, IMO. Thats their identity. Give the people more animals.

DHS needs to have lands defined into Studios, The Animation Courtyard should be where they celebrate classic animation. Pixar Place should be expanded and be the locale for all new Pixar attractions. Lucas Studios should speak for itself, as should Muppet Studios. LMA could be in a blockbuster studio area, and Classic Hollywood/Hollywoodland would be on Sunset.

I think the trend is just the opposite for DAK. Less wildlife, more rides.

I agree that Animal Kingdom needs more animal attractions, but during the winter, all the animals are in by 4:00-4:30. This is why they need to keep adding attractions that don't rely on live animals.

Yeah, Iger has made a lot of strides to make up for and fix a lot of the theme park problems.

We also forget that DCA has a lot of insane problems that had to be fixed first.

Oddly enough, I think the attraction lineup in DCA is pretty strong, much like the attraction lineup at Islands of Adventure. The problem with that park was cohesion.

The entire place [EPCOT] is showing it's age.
At least there have been recent strides of improvements.

How? It's the least "stale" of WDW's parks. LS, Land, Imagination, TT, and M:S are less than 10 years old for the most part. Not to mention El Rio's major refurb recently.:shrug:

I think World Showcase is perfect.
Future world seems lost, I really can't put my finger on it though. :shrug:

Epcot is my least favorite park. I love Soarin' and I love Illuminations. I think The Seas with Nemo and Friends was an enormous improvement, I miss Horizons, and I miss Journey into Imagination.

I think Epcot has the tendency to appeal to adults more than children, but for me it was the opposite. As a child, it was my favorite park, and although I welcomed the evolution of the park to a certain extent, I too reminisce about the classic days of Epcot. What I want is both - I want to have my Cake (Horizons/Imagination/World of Motion/Cranium Command) and to eat it too (Soarin'/The Seas with Nemo and Friends/Test Track).

What to do?! Re-haul FW to be a unified and cohesive place again. Stop having the architecture and the colors clash. Keep all the attractions focused on the future.

Easy, IMHO.

But this last part isn't easy. Especially in today's world. The future is literally changing every day. New technology emerges in the areas covered all the time, there's no way to build an attraction that can stay relevant for long in today's technological society.

But then you run the risk of the rides becoming incredibly stale. The Future World concept was great and ground breaking, but fundamentally flawed from inception.

How about not having Future World and Tomorrowland in the same resort. The concept of the future is the most difficult concept to keep fresh, and Disney has proven that maintaining these two themes (which are really the same) is difficult.

Before someone jumps down my throat about Future World being different from Tomorrowland - in implementation they are different, but in terms of the names used Future World and Tomorrowland are the same. Future World is really Discoveryland and Tomorrowland is really Sci-Fi Land.

I think it would be much easier to change the name of Future World than it would be to change the name of Tomorrowland, but really the cohesion is largely predicated on the misnaming of the two lands.

So...

I think the foundation of Epcot was to be like a permanent World's Fair, not a theme park.

I think this further emphasizes why Future World should be renamed to Discoveryland. The World's Fairs were about new technologies, but more importantly they were about new discoveries.

 

[SoccerMickey]

The following is more related to Disneyland but is applicable to EPCOT; I direct your attention here.

I think the part of that blog that offers the best spark of debate is are purists truly against change or have we been disappointed so many times with changes that truly aren't equal to their predecessors that we've just come to expect the worst. If THAT'S the case and we're still shelling out dough to visit this place several times a year then what's wrong with us?

 

[_Scar]

The Festival of the Lion King Show would serve this purpose.

They need to make a ride to go with the show. It's one of Disney's most well known animation movies.

 

[SoccerMickey]

They need to make a ride to go with the show. It's one of Disney's most well known animation movies.

When the Lion King came out in 1994 each park had its own Lion King attraction:

Magic Kingdom: Legend of the Lion King
Epcot: Circle of Life
Disney MGM Studios: The Making of the Lion King
then when DAK opened they had Festival of the Lion King.

 

[_Scar]

When the Lion King came out in 1994 each park had its own Lion King attraction:

Magic Kingdom: Legend of the Lion King
Epcot: Circle of Life
Disney MGM Studios: The Making of the Lion King
then when DAK opened they had Festival of the Lion King.

Good for them. Only 2 exist, and only 1 is still popular.

Lion King needs a nice e ticket dark ride in DAK. No questions asked. JUST BUILD IT PLEASE

 

[Figment632]

No, I'm serious. MK was stuffed that night and literally no one was on SGE. (I went on it)

I've also as recently as last this year have seen SGE with a 40 minute wait.

IMO SSE could and should do that, and all it would take is some tweaking for the finale.

What finale?

Yeah. I do. Its a great attraction for the 5-10 year old set. Everyone wants to be able to drive a car. Whats wrong with that?

In its current state it's a waste of a very large space imo.

I'd like to see the Speedway updated to "Cosmic Highway" with electric cars and futuristic scenery.

The only way id like it to stay is if they added in a future/Sci-fi forced perspective city. Then add in rode signs and billboards and make it like you are traveling to TL. They could even add audio like you are listening to the radio with commercials for futuistic/sci-fi products and advertise attractions.

 

[magicmaya]

I'm back from dallas! What did I miss? (I really don't feel like reading this whole thing) :wave:

 

[gettingsmaller]

On Epcot/FW...

Isn't it possible to make a "far-future" attraction that can be relevant for 10 years or more while also keeping fresher "near-future" things in Innoventions? It seems to me that Innoventions should be the place that cutting-edge technology is displayed (and changed out regularly), while many of the pavilions point to a future 25, 50, 100 years out.

Does the general concept of 100 years from now change THAT quickly? I can look at many things portrayed in "Horizons" and still see those things as a realistic "future" (living in space, holo-TVs, living under the ocean, etc.). Although I DID like Horizons and WoM, I'm not necessarily arguing that they should still exist... if people were not attracted to them, they needed to be changed. What I AM saying is that those visions of the future--30 years old now--still work for me. I think it's possible to make quality, forward-looking attractions that have lives of 10 years or longer with little updating needed.

As far as TL is concerned, it has always been my impression (maybe because most of my visits are "post-94"?) that TL is a sort of fantasy-future. In other words, where Epcot's FW seems like it should be more of a showcase of new technology + realistic view of the future, TL is more of a land of aliens, hyper-advanced technology, and space travel.

 

[Figment632]

On Epcot/FW...

Isn't it possible to make a "far-future" attraction that can be relevant for 10 years or more while also keeping fresher "near-future" things in Innoventions? It seems to me that Innoventions should be the place that cutting-edge technology is displayed (and changed out regularly), while many of the pavilions point to a future 25, 50, 100 years out.


Exactly this what a lot of Horizons was and what FW should be. The current break through tech could be in Innoventions.

 

[SirGoofy]

Exactly this what a lot of Horizons was and what FW should be. The current break through tech could be in Innoventions.

But that wasn't what FW was. Horizons was, but FW was not. FW was about the emerging tech of the day and how it would affect the future. The other scenario is Tomorrowland.:shrug:

 

[Figment632]

But that wasn't what FW was. Horizons was, but FW was not. FW was about the emerging tech of the day and how it would affect the future. The other scenario is Tomorrowland.:shrug:

Disney has shown over the past 2o years that they have no intenntions of Keeping Epcot of TL with their original themes. SO make FW show case tech beyond our reach but not so radical like teleportation and warp drive.

Ex.

UOE: Show cars that are powered by there own fussion reactor or fuel cell.

MS: Is fine because we ca't really go to Mars yet.

JII: Never really did this anyway :shrug:

TLS: Instead of Nemo could have been Sea base Delta or Sea Castle
a futuristic city under the seas.:shrug: