Al Lutz: Tom Staggs stepping back and reconsidering many aspects of FLE

[HMF]

TDO really makes me mad. If they could remove their heads from their rear ends just once and do something at WDW the right way I'd be happy. But with every new project comes waves of massive budget cuts that affect the final product. TDO stinks.

What can we do about it?:animwink:

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

What can we do about it?:animwink:

I feel another Save Disney campaign coming on!

...well more like SaveWDW.

 

[HMF]

I feel another Save Disney campaign coming on!

...well more like SaveWDW.

Will you start the site?

 

[clench]

Maybe I'm viewing the whole issue more optimistically than is really healthy, but I'm actually really excited about FLE and whatever ends up in it. I've been looking forward more to the atmospheric elements of the expansion than the rides, anyway. While I was never thrilled with the whole M&G element since I'm, you know, a guy, I was really excited about the whole "Fantasyland Forest" concept, of walking into a fully realized, thematically complete new land, filled with great architecture and exciting little details. Yay for big new Omnimover ride, sure, but that's not what has me excited.

Regardless of what actually ends up at the site of the old lagoon, there WILL be something good, and the rest of the park WILL be better off for it. Pooh is finally getting a good themed queue, and IASW's queue is also getting a significant upgrade. Many other exteriors in the park are being, or will be, rehabbed. The fact that Liberty Tree Tavern and pretty much all of the Main Street facades are getting minor but important work done on them NOW is probably not coincidental.

 

[MarkTwain]

I think we're dwelling too much on the princesses and not enough on the successor to the "throne". Staggs and Rasulo are jockeying for position in upper management and one of them will likely be Iger's replacement. If Staggs lets FLE happen as planned, Rasulo still gets the credit. He was the one who announced the expansion in its current state. Staggs is likely looking for ways to change it enough to make it appear to be at least partially his idea.

Much of Phase 1 is already in the works. LM, Gaston's and the Beasts Castle/Restaraunt will likely stay. The M&G's were the weakest part of the expansion from the get go, so they're probably on the table. That doesn't dissappoint me in the least. Toontown tuning into a circus is probably up in the air now too. I think Pixie Hollow was always an IF anyway. I could live with FLE stopping after Phase 1 if something else replaced phases 2 and 3, like the Frontierland expansion. Or even better ...

I think for Staggs, investing in AK instead would be a better option. I posted this months ago. MK is already the king of parks. They have done a good job of polishing it up in the last 12-18 months. Adding FLE is going to draw even more guests to an already overcrowded park. AK is at the bottom of the Orlando parks now attendance wise, and adding a new land that would be able to stay open for normal operating hours would give AK a chance of moving up the ladder in overall Orlando park attendance. For Staggs, it would be a much bigger feather in his hat to say he moved AK from 7th overall to say 4th or 5th.

I almost hate to say it, but PH and Toontown should be tabled for another 6 years, and that space could be revamped just in time for the 50th.

I see much wisdom in this post. :king:

I would agree that the "good" parts of this expansion are the ones still guaranteed - those being Mermaid and the B&tB restaurant. I would also bet that the rest of the expansion probably equals a nice sum that could be better spent somewhere else... and I hope something to that effect happens.

I wouldn't argue to their budgets being consolidated and spent on a single, boy-centered ride to counter Mermaid's femininity. An Alice ride, a 101 Dalmations ride, that rumored 7 Dwarves Mine Train coaster, or even a Toad revival would work well for this.

But I think I would even prefer something else. A new Frontierland attraction (which I'm not convinced is possible due to space issues) or a Tomorrowland clone of Disneyland's rumored Tron E-ticket would be a great use of these resources. But I agree that the best use of all would be an AK addition. Just about anything would work here, to a sort of mini-BK land, to a quality Dinosaur ride to replace Dino-rama, to a new Discovery River cruise where you're chased by the Loch Noss Monster, or even a Jungle Book dark ride for Asia... just ANYTHING to take some strain off of the existing rides and add some length to the AK guest's day. A well-timed AK addition that siphons some capacity would also allow Everest to be taken down for the refurb it deserves... thereby clearing up 2 major thread topics in one smart move. :lol:

 

[Enchantâmes]

I think the execs need a good shot of this...

 

[jt04]

So, what appealed to me about the original plans was the overall sense of place. The theme of fantasy, being able to walk through the forest and see these elaborate fantasy chateaus. The addition of the water outside of Mermaid, the hills..more forced perspective scenery.

The fact that it all surrounded meet n' greets was not a big deal to me--what I was looking forward to was being able to walk around in a Fantasy Forest--straight out of animated legend.

The Castle Walls would help transition this land from our traditional Fantasyland.

I just think it would be a spectacular place to walk around in--the MK version of World Showcase.

So--I'm hoping that they retain the forest--and almost everything about it. All they'd need to do is change something into the Dwarves Mine Ride--or something a bit mysterious and thrilling--not too much, because this is for the younger set, primarily--but keep the overall enchantment--make a PLACE.

When I am in Africa, or Asia in the Animal Kingdom--I can almost imagine that I AM THERE. I wish for that same pervasive and detailed environment theming. The sense that you've been transported to another world. Frankly--this is what I'm hearing about Harry Potter land--that the fact that it is one new ride and two rethemed attractions is secondary to that feeling of being in Harry Potter's world--right down to the butterbeer.

I know that Disney can do this--and this is independent of what attractions are contained within. It's an opportunity to create a real LAND full of wonder and enchantment. It'll work.

So go ahead, change up an attraction or two, pull a princess or scale her back. But don't blow it on the theming. Don't blow it on the sense of place, and the opportunity to amaze and create wonder. That'll work for all ages.

Go for it, Disney. Adjust, tweak, swap, push, pull, move, reconfigure.

Just GO FOR IT. Please.

That's my plea.

EXACTLY!

This is a design/concept that is timeless. It will always appeal if done right so why not put the proper investment in it? If done in the Disney way it can't fail. See DCA v2.0 for proof.

 

[ryno1982]

FYI, Cinderella Castle is French, not German.

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Some of the alternate ideas will make a lot of people happy. It's not all doom and gloom - have faith.

I'll second this. I hear potential for positive things...

 

[Captain Chaos]

I feel another Save Disney campaign coming on!

...well more like SaveWDW.

Will you start the site?

:lol:


Funny you say that... I bought the domain name savewdw.com a year ago... I was planning on starting up a Save WDW campaign, just couldn't find the time.. Now, with my Masters classes in full swing and with work, I'll find it even harder.. HOWEVER, if anyone wants to help out with it, I'll be glad to use the domain as long as others help out with building a website and writing articles...

I opened a wordpress site as well and I'll post the articles on there and load them up to the web via SaveWDW... I just need the assistance... PM me if interested!!!!

 

[Captain Chaos]

I'll second this. I hear potential for positive things...

Share what you hear... Don't have to go into full detail, just, ya know, clues... clues that may make us go HMMMM....

 

[MiklCraw4d]

Share what you hear... Don't have to go into full detail, just, ya know, clues... clues that may make us go HMMMM....

Well, details seem in short supply lately. All I hear is the general direction of things - the same trends that Hill and Lutz have reported, but with a different spin. The general consensus I hear is that A) Staggs wasn't happy with the plans due to princess saturation B) WDW Execs got invites to WWOHP premiere and were really freaked out afterward. War room discussions were held, plans put on hold for recalculation. There's the potential that the budget might actually be increased - increased enough for a few Fantasyland-grade dark rides.

Nothing specific, just possibilities. I don't know if they even know right now. But at least the reasons they're making these changes seem to be the right reasons.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Well, details seem in short supply lately. All I hear is the general direction of things - the same trends that Hill and Lutz have reported, but with a different spin. The general consensus I hear is that A) Staggs wasn't happy with the plans due to princess saturation B) WDW Execs got invites to WWOHP premiere and were really freaked out afterward. War room discussions were held, plans put on hold for recalculation. There's the potential that the budget might actually be increased - increased enough for a few Fantasyland-grade dark rides.
Nothing specific, just possibilities. I don't know if they even know right now. But at least the reasons they're making these changes seem to be the right reasons.

NICE!!!! I'll take this part I bolded... Thank you!!!

However, I still have no faith what so ever in TDO...

 

[imagineer boy]

Oh god I hope Rasulo doesn't replace Iger. If he does then the WDC would become a living hell.

 

[toolsnspools]

I went to the Al Lutz link again and read it through for perspective. It was clearly a nose snub at WDW. I don't doubt that the FLE plans are in review, but the negativity of his article is clearly aimed at his disdain for anything good happening at WDW and not because he has any real information about something that's on the way. To sum up what he said -

"We're so awesome, and those losers won't even do the FLE right. BTW, did I tell you we're awsome? We are definitely awesome." :hurl:

It's just an attempt to make DL and DCA look better by taking a jab at WDW. This is a real opportunity for Staggs and TDO, let's see what they do with it. Until we learn more, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

 

[aladdin2007]

I went to the Al Lutz link again and read it through for perspective. It was clearly a nose snub at WDW. I don't doubt that the FLE plans are in review, but the negativity of his article is clearly aimed at his disdain for anything good happening at WDW and not because he has any real information about something that's on the way. To sum up what he said -

"We're so awesome, and those losers won't even do the FLE right. BTW, did I tell you we're awsome? We are definitely awesome." :hurl:

It's just an attempt to make DL and DCA look better by taking a jab at WDW. This is a real opportunity for Staggs and TDO, let's see what they do with it. Until we learn more, I'll keep my fingers crossed.

I agree Im feeling alot of positivity towards Staggs especially and what he may grant Imagineering to do. TDO on the other hand I have no faith in whatsoever, they are all for FLE being cut back. But hopefully they wont get their way and replacements for the design will be forced to go through. I know AL does nothing but doom down WDW, he also stated in that article that there are only modest 40th anniversary plans, which saddens me, and if true that again is due to TDO. Hopefully someone will step up to the plate and veto TDO on that as well, maybe Staggs is the guy.

 

[RSoxNo1]

Oh god I hope Rasulo doesn't replace Iger. If he does then the WDC would become a living hell.

Staggs would be replacing Iger, not Rasulo

 

[CaptainJackNO]

I remember in the "Get Eisner Out Years" there were a number of people on this site that warned about who might replace Eisner. Well, let me say I now regret wanting him to leave. WDW would be in better shape had Eisner stayed at the helm, I am afraid. WDW is the crown jewel of Disney Parks and is being allowed to dull by pinhead business dorks who only look at the bottom line and stock pricing. Ohhhh, the shame of it.

 

[Pioneer Hall]

I remember in the "Get Eisner Out Years" there were a number of people on this site that warned about who might replace Eisner. Well, let me say I now regret wanting him to leave. WDW would be in better shape had Eisner stayed at the helm, I am afraid. WDW is the crown jewel of Disney Parks and is being allowed to dull by pinhead business dorks who only look at the bottom line and stock pricing. Ohhhh, the shame of it.

I have to kindly disagree here. First off, Disneyland is and always has been the crown jewel and flagship Disney Parks destination. As the original, it will always get more attention even if it isn't justified since it doesn't see nearly the amount of people that WDW does. I also think that Eisner was showing a lot less concern for the parks in his later years. Maintenance was down, accidents were happening due to bad upkeep, and new attractions were not going through. I think the main issue here is that Iger seems to be interested in other areas of Disney's business other than the parks. Look at the amount of studio and merchandise related moves that have taken place since he took over. The acquisitions have been huge and Disney is using their new money making licensing abilities. I think that Iger just needs to remember about all aspects of the company and get his executives to work on it. I think that we really need to give Staggs a chance and see what he can do before we go crazy and say how everything is a disaster.

 

[wm49rs]

I have to kindly disagree here. First off, Disneyland is and always has been the crown jewel and flagship Disney Parks destination. As the original, it will always get more attention even if it isn't justified since it doesn't see nearly the amount of people that WDW does. I also think that Eisner was showing a lot less concern for the parks in his later years. Maintenance was down, accidents were happening due to bad upkeep, and new attractions were not going through. I think the main issue here is that Iger seems to be interested in other areas of Disney's business other than the parks. Look at the amount of studio and merchandise related moves that have taken place since he took over. The acquisitions have been huge and Disney is using their new money making licensing abilities. I think that Iger just needs to remember about all aspects of the company and get his executives to work on it. I think that we really need to give Staggs a chance and see what he can do before we go crazy and say how everything is a disaster.

Spoken for truth....

And let's all remember, that what was in the article is largely speculation (and even hope) on Lutz' part. Perhaps the best thing to do is wait and see what the final FLE turns out to be.....