Al Lutz: Tom Staggs stepping back and reconsidering many aspects of FLE

[DisneyNut2007]

If the Princess meet n' greets are on hold, perhaps Disney can move the Dumbo project to the middle of Fantasy Forest where the new Cinderella and Aurora greeting locations are supposed to be. This change would solve a number of problems. First, it fills the gaping hole in the middle of the expansion left by non existent greeting locations. Second, it allows Disney to come through on the advertised changes to Dumbo, which sound pretty neat. Third, it allows visible progress to happen in Fantasyland without closing Toontown down. The Magic Kingdom can retain as much capacity as possible while the Company decides what to do. If the Princess meeting spots eventually get the green light, they can always be relcated and incorporated into the expansion elsewhere.

Sorry, but Toontown is still on its way out already.

 

[Testtrack321]

If the Princess meet n' greets are on hold, perhaps Disney can move the Dumbo project to the middle of Fantasy Forest where the new Cinderella and Aurora greeting locations are supposed to be. This change would solve a number of problems. First, it fills the gaping hole in the middle of the expansion left by non existent greeting locations. Second, it allows Disney to come through on the advertised changes to Dumbo, which sound pretty neat. Third, it allows visible progress to happen in Fantasyland without closing Toontown down. The Magic Kingdom can retain as much capacity as possible while the Company decides what to do. If the Princess meeting spots eventually get the green light, they can always be relcated and incorporated into the expansion elsewhere.

And from a story perspective it makes A LOT of sense! I LIKE IT!

 

[DisneyNut2007]

Hmmm. Maybe they should send the people at TDO to the OLC to get some more training. Its not supposed to be about "how much money would we save if we did this" it should be, "how much money do we need to make sure that we give our guest the best."

surely the most visited theme park/resort in the world has cash to give a new attraction every 3 - 5 years that are high quality. Look at Tokyo! heck, Look at Disneyland making an effort with its lack of space. Now look at Orlando.

Walt was all about getting thhe money to enhance guest expiriences like the tv special.

As a matter of fact, the entire Parks and Resorts section of the WDC could use OLC's help.....at least thats my opinion

I take it you haven't read what themeparkdude, jt04 and I wrote before you.

The TDO people DON'T make the calls. I'm telling you all that for the last time!

 

[sanctumsolitude]

Without the OLC, Tokyo Disneyland Resort would not be able to sustain adding new attractions or be able to build a $4 billion theme park. The money simply does not exist within the Walt Disney Company to be able to pull that off. The WDC does not own Tokyo Disneyland, they just own the rights to the characters and franchises there. The OLC pays for everything else as far as I know, so having TDO learn from them wouldn't be practical because these are two entirely different situations. One could also make the argument that WDW is a destination resort, and Tokyo Disneyland is more of a regional resort like Disneyland.

Wait what? Are you implying Disney can't afford the budget that OLC gives to Tokyo Disneyland? OLC made $163 million in profit last year. Disney made $3.3 billion. The parks and resort operating income was $1.4 billion last year. The money exists, its just a matter of Disney determining if they will receive adequate ROI to justify spending it.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Hmmm. Maybe they should send the people at TDO to the OLC to get some more training. Its not supposed to be about "how much money would we save if we did this" it should be, "how much money do we need to make sure that we give our guest the best."

surely the most visited theme park/resort in the world has cash to give a new attraction every 3 - 5 years that are high quality. Look at Tokyo! heck, Look at Disneyland making an effort with its lack of space. Now look at Orlando.

Walt was all about getting thhe money to enhance guest expiriences like the tv special.

As a matter of fact, the entire Parks and Resorts section of the WDC could use OLC's help.....at least thats my opinion

The Oriental Land Company is bound by quality control contracts that Disney loved to hold over their heads. They are contractually obliged to use oly Walt Disney Imagineering, so Disney wants the Tokyo Disney Resort to have expensive additions because the resort's owners have to pay Disney to make that happen.

Without the OLC, Tokyo Disneyland Resort would not be able to sustain adding new attractions or be able to build a $4 billion theme park. The money simply does not exist within the Walt Disney Company to be able to pull that off. The WDC does not own Tokyo Disneyland, they just own the rights to the characters and franchises there. The OLC pays for everything else as far as I know, so having TDO learn from them wouldn't be practical because these are two entirely different situations. One could also make the argument that WDW is a destination resort, and Tokyo Disneyland is more of a regional resort like Disneyland.

The Walt Disney Company is a significantly larger company than the Oriental Land Company.

 

[BrerFrog]

If the Princess meet n' greets are on hold, perhaps Disney can move the Dumbo project to the middle of Fantasy Forest where the new Cinderella and Aurora greeting locations are supposed to be. This change would solve a number of problems. First, it fills the gaping hole in the middle of the expansion left by non existent greeting locations. Second, it allows Disney to come through on the advertised changes to Dumbo, which sound pretty neat. Third, it allows visible progress to happen in Fantasyland without closing Toontown down. The Magic Kingdom can retain as much capacity as possible while the Company decides what to do. If the Princess meeting spots eventually get the green light, they can always be relcated and incorporated into the expansion elsewhere.

What I don't like about that is the fact that putting Dumbo in the middle of Fantasy Forest doesn't make a lot of sense.

Maybe they have ideas... but unfortunetly can't tell us...

CLUES!!! That's all I want.. CLUES!!! LoL...

It is just wishful thinking, but maybe Alice will be in there since the recent Burton movie was successful. I am not saying Burton's Alice should go in there, though, I would rather have the traditional animated Alice.

I think it is a franchise that appeals to both boys and girls.

 

[toolsnspools]

I think we're dwelling too much on the princesses and not enough on the successor to the "throne". Staggs and Rasulo are jockeying for position in upper management and one of them will likely be Iger's replacement. If Staggs lets FLE happen as planned, Rasulo still gets the credit. He was the one who announced the expansion in its current state. Staggs is likely looking for ways to change it enough to make it appear to be at least partially his idea.

Much of Phase 1 is already in the works. LM, Gaston's and the Beasts Castle/Restaraunt will likely stay. The M&G's were the weakest part of the expansion from the get go, so they're probably on the table. That doesn't dissappoint me in the least. Toontown tuning into a circus is probably up in the air now too. I think Pixie Hollow was always an IF anyway. I could live with FLE stopping after Phase 1 if something else replaced phases 2 and 3, like the Frontierland expansion. Or even better ...

I think for Staggs, investing in AK instead would be a better option. I posted this months ago. MK is already the king of parks. They have done a good job of polishing it up in the last 12-18 months. Adding FLE is going to draw even more guests to an already overcrowded park. AK is at the bottom of the Orlando parks now attendance wise, and adding a new land that would be able to stay open for normal operating hours would give AK a chance of moving up the ladder in overall Orlando park attendance. For Staggs, it would be a much bigger feather in his hat to say he moved AK from 7th overall to say 4th or 5th.

I almost hate to say it, but PH and Toontown should be tabled for another 6 years, and that space could be revamped just in time for the 50th.

 

[Mouse Detective]

They've cleared the land. They need to do something with it. They can't just leave an open void between existing stuff...

Yeah, we don't need another Pleasure Island-style gap of nothing!

 

[Omegadiz]

Without the OLC, Tokyo Disneyland Resort would not be able to sustain adding new attractions or be able to build a $4 billion theme park. The money simply does not exist within the Walt Disney Company to be able to pull that off. The WDC does not own Tokyo Disneyland, they just own the rights to the characters and franchises there. The OLC pays for everything else as far as I know, so having TDO learn from them wouldn't be practical because these are two entirely different situations. One could also make the argument that WDW is a destination resort, and Tokyo Disneyland is more of a regional resort like Disneyland.

But they can run their park right. Think about it, besides who they're owned by whats the difference?

 

[Captain Chaos]

If the Princess meet n' greets are on hold, perhaps Disney can move the Dumbo project to the middle of Fantasy Forest where the new Cinderella and Aurora greeting locations are supposed to be. This change would solve a number of problems. First, it fills the gaping hole in the middle of the expansion left by non existent greeting locations. Second, it allows Disney to come through on the advertised changes to Dumbo, which sound pretty neat. Third, it allows visible progress to happen in Fantasyland without closing Toontown down. The Magic Kingdom can retain as much capacity as possible while the Company decides what to do. If the Princess meeting spots eventually get the green light, they can always be relcated and incorporated into the expansion elsewhere.

And from a story perspective it makes A LOT of sense! I LIKE IT!

Makes absolutely no sense... Explain a circus with a flying elephant in the middle of a forest.... The princess cottages makes the most sense for the forest....

 

[Captain Chaos]

What I don't like about that is the fact that putting Dumbo in the middle of Fantasy Forest doesn't make a lot of sense.



It is just wishful thinking, but maybe Alice will be in there since the recent Burton movie was successful. I am not saying Burton's Alice should go in there, though, I would rather have the traditional animated Alice.

I think it is a franchise that appeals to both boys and girls.

Lee, Martin, and others have already said Wonderland is a no go... I wonder if it would be something that is now being thought up though.... Doubtful..

 

[wickedfan07]

What I don't like about that is the fact that putting Dumbo in the middle of Fantasy Forest doesn't make a lot of sense.



It is just wishful thinking, but maybe Alice will be in there since the recent Burton movie was successful. I am not saying Burton's Alice should go in there, though, I would rather have the traditional animated Alice.

I think it is a franchise that appeals to both boys and girls.

I think it makes sense to put Dumbo in the middle of the Fantasy Forest. Think about it: If you owned a travelling circus, would you want your production to take up residence in the middle of town where everyone can see, or on the outskirts where fewer people will attend? I think it makes perfect sense to put the circus in the middle, as it would draw villagers from all around the Fantasy Forest to the center of town.

Alice in Wonderland could also work in this area, but I think having Wonderland on the edges would work better. There would be room on the edge of the property for a dark ride's showbuilding. In the middle there, there are only so many ways to hide a building like that, and it can only be so big.

 

[Testtrack321]

Makes absolutely no sense... Explain a circus with a flying elephant in the middle of a forest.... The princess cottages makes the most sense for the forest....

Middle of a forest, no. A circus setting up tent right outside a major castle city's walls to entertain those inside, I think so. I think it adds history and depth to the land, a sense of time. Plus imagine walking around seeing plastered posters around some places advertising the circus now in town?

 

[Captain Chaos]

I think it makes sense to put Dumbo in the middle of the Fantasy Forest. Think about it: If you owned a travelling circus, would you want your production to take up residence in the middle of town where everyone can see, or on the outskirts where fewer people will attend? I think it makes perfect sense to put the circus in the middle, as it would draw villagers from all around the Fantasy Forest to the center of town.

Alice in Wonderland could also work in this area, but I think having Wonderland on the edges would work better. There would be room on the edge of the property for a dark ride's showbuilding. In the middle there, there are only so many ways to hide a building like that, and it can only be so big.

In the middle of what town???? There is no town.. It is a FOREST.... Now, putting it on the outskirts of the FOREST would be the better idea... Not in the middle of a FOREST....

 

[Captain Chaos]

Middle of a forest, no. A circus setting up tent right outside a major castle city's walls to entertain those inside, I think so. I think it adds history and depth to the land, a sense of time. Plus imagine walking around seeing plastered posters around some places advertising the circus now in town?

You aren't on the outskirts of a forest until you get to the area they want to put Dumbo... Think about it... there are TREES in the queue for Pooh... And where does Pooh live?? 100 Acre Woods... Right smack in the middle of Fantasyland Forest.... Puttnig dumbo where you suggest makes absolutely no sense at all...

 

[Captain Chaos]

I think it makes sense to put Dumbo in the middle of the Fantasy Forest. Think about it: If you owned a travelling circus, would you want your production to take up residence in the middle of town where everyone can see, or on the outskirts where fewer people will attend? I think it makes perfect sense to put the circus in the middle, as it would draw villagers from all around the Fantasy Forest to the center of town.

Alice in Wonderland could also work in this area, but I think having Wonderland on the edges would work better. There would be room on the edge of the property for a dark ride's showbuilding. In the middle there, there are only so many ways to hide a building like that, and it can only be so big.

EDIT:




See above. I think it could work well, especially since the location is closer to the Fortress of Fantasyland itself. It's in a perfect location to draw villagers from around the supposed Kingdom, both inside the village gates in the forest. I think it works better than being out in the middle of nowhere between to the supposedly futuristic Tomorrowland Speedway and what would have been Pixie Hollow. Dumbo next to Pixies and racecars makes even less sense than you think Dumbo in the middle of the forest does.

The vilage is on the OTHER side of the castle though... Where you want to put Dumbo still makes no sense... It is within the castle walls still... The idea is to put the circus on the OUSIDE of the castle walls... The Toontown/Barnstormer area is the outskirts.... That is the only outrskirt area... the walkway is technically still inside the forest....

Let me correct that: The other area that is on the outskirts is where Pinocchio Haus starts and that area of Fantasyland... Behind the caste and over to Tomorrowland is the entire forest.... I still don't see Dumbo fitting anywhere other than the area where they proposed to put it...

 

[toolsnspools]

FLE is making a town, complete with a tavern, a bunch of chalets and another castle. It's a bit of a stretch, but I can buy into the cirucus outside the castle walls... :shrug:

With the popularity of Dumbo, I don't see them getting rid of it. They could also move it over to where it was going without demolishing the rest of Toontown. Were't they going to keep GB there and re-theme it anyway?

 

[Testtrack321]

You aren't on the outskirts of a forest until you get to the area they want to put Dumbo... Think about it... there are TREES in the queue for Pooh... And where does Pooh live?? 100 Acre Woods... Right smack in the middle of Fantasyland Forest.... Puttnig dumbo where you suggest makes absolutely no sense at all...

It's outside of the castle walls.

See...

http://www.operationpixiedust.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fantasyland-expansion-concept-art.png

Boom, outside of the walls, right where a circus would be. Not far back in a forest, right outside a major castle city!

 

[BrerFrog]

I think it makes sense to put Dumbo in the middle of the Fantasy Forest. Think about it: If you owned a travelling circus, would you want your production to take up residence in the middle of town where everyone can see, or on the outskirts where fewer people will attend? I think it makes perfect sense to put the circus in the middle, as it would draw villagers from all around the Fantasy Forest to the center of town.

I don't know. As it has been discussed, Dumbo is Americana and Fantasy Forest reeks (in a good way of course) of Europe. I don't see both going a long too well.

 

[Testtrack321]

I don't know. As it has been discussed, Dumbo is Americana and Fantasy Forest reeks (in a good way of course) of Europe. I don't see both going a long too well.

Then explain why two major English tales are taking place behind a German castle and there's ALREADY Dumbo there? And what about 20k? It's Fantasyland, it only has to make sense to the child inside of us.