Al Lutz: Tom Staggs stepping back and reconsidering many aspects of FLE

[Captain Chaos]

It's outside of the castle walls.

See...

http://www.operationpixiedust.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/fantasyland-expansion-concept-art.png

Boom, outside of the walls, right where a circus would be. Not far back in a forest, right outside a major castle city!

i am looking at the picture.. I see castle walls separating one area from Fantasyland from the forest.. I see a huge forest that extends from the castle all the way to Toontown... Where he is saying to put dumbo is smack in the middle of.. the forest.... Where Cinderella and Aurora's cottages are suposed to go... That is the forest...

 

[toolsnspools]

Say nothing of the fact that there are elephants flying in circles... That should really only happen in Reality Land. :lol:

 

[BrerFrog]

Then explain why two major English tales are taking place behind a German castle and there's ALREADY Dumbo there? And what about 20k? It's Fantasyland, it only has to make sense to the child inside of us.

The problem is, Dumbo is probably not going to be just a spinner anymore. The area will be much bigger and have a lot of circus theme around it with the NextGen queue system and everything else. While a solo spinner doesn't clash with the environment around it, a large area with a circus theme will if put right in the middle of the expansion where the question mark still looms.

As for the English tales behind the German castle, they are all European tales when it is said and done.

As for 20k... well, you got me there. :lol:

 

[Captain Chaos]

Then explain why two major English tales are taking place behind a German castle and there's ALREADY Dumbo there? And what about 20k? It's Fantasyland, it only has to make sense to the child inside of us.

Germany = Europe :shrug:

England = Europe :shrug:

Now with the forest, it becomes a bit more Europrean... Hence, Dumbo fitting better where Toontown is... On the real outskirts of the forest...

 

[Captain Chaos]

The problem is, Dumbo is probably not going to be just a spinner anymore. The area will be much bigger and have a lot of circus theme around it with the NextGen queue system and everything else. While a solo spinner doesn't clash with the environment around it, a large area with a circus theme will if put right in the middle of the expansion where the question mark still looms.

As for the English tales behind the German castle, they are all European tales when it is said and done.

As for 20k... well, you got me there. :lol:

Well, 20K isn't exactly American LOL... it is written by a French author, Jules Verne.. And can therefore be deemed European...

 

[wickedfan07]

dxer07002,

I see Fantasyland and Fantasy Forest as one whole Kingdom. The area known as Fantasyland would include the Castel, Snow White, It'a a Small World, the Carousel, etc. I see this as the village itself. If Dumbo were built where the Princesses are supposed to be going, it would be right outside the castle walls. It would be the perfect location for a travelling circus to be. I understand this location is directly across from the hundred Acre Wood. However, I never said you had to be able to see Dumbo from the entrance to the Pooh attraction. The current plans call for Aurora's cottage to be directly across from Pooh, and Aurora has about as much to do with Pooh as Dumbo does, so what is across the path from it obviously doesn't matter so much. The fact that it is a FOREST and not specifically a VILLAGE isn't really a big deal either, considering the FOREST has houses in it, meaning it must be inhabited by someone, who we might as well refer to as villagers.

Long story short, I don't want Dumbo inside the Castle walls, and I'm not suggesting putting it there. I don't think Dumbo belongs in the outskirts either, because a travelling circus would want to be the center of attention and not tucked away in a corner.

As for the clash between Americana and something obviously European in nature, that would be a concern. However, it doesn't necessarily rule this out. There were travelling shows and circuses in Europe, too. Dumbo is already sitting behind a Castle inspired by real castles in Europe, in an area dominated by attractions based on European fairy tales. I don't see how this would be much different.

I'm not saying Disney will build Fantasyland this way. It's just an idea that allows them to deliver on most of what has been advertised while giving them time to consider their options and do the second phase of the expansion right.

 

[BrerFrog]

Well, 20K isn't exactly American LOL... it is written by a French author, Jules Verne.. And can therefore be deemed European...

Sounds good to me, European it is. :lol:

 

[wickedfan07]

Maybe instead of leveling Toontown completely, they should focus on expanding it. It's generally gender-neutral to begin with and everyone knows and loves the lassic Disney characters. Expanding upon toontown helps balance the girlyness of Fantasy Forest AND it would give Disney someplace to put American Dumbo within the Magic Kingdom that won't ruin the apparent Europeaness of Fantasyland. Could Dumbo work better in a renewed Toontown than he would in Fantasy Forest? Dumbo's been in Fantasyland so long (and in every Magic Kingdom-style park globally), that I don't think anyone is going to walk through Fantasyland and find him out of place there. But if he really is out of place thre, why not Toontown? Could the circus make more sense visiting Mickey and pals?

 

[BrerFrog]

Maybe instead of leveling Toontown completely, they should focus on expanding it. It's generally gender-neutral to begin with and everyone knows and loves the lassic Disney characters. Expanding upon toontown helps balance the girlyness of Fantasy Forest AND it would give Disney someplace to put American Dumbo within the Magic Kingdom that won't ruin the apparent Europeaness of Fantasyland. Could Dumbo work better in a renewed Toontown than he would in Fantasy Forest? Dumbo's been in Fantasyland so long (and in every Magic Kingdom-style park globally), that I don't think anyone is going to walk through Fantasyland and find him out of place there. But if he really is out of place thre, why not Toontown? Could the circus make more sense visiting Mickey and pals?

If you are talking about a single spinner, then I say leave it where it is. But since Dumbo is probably Lasseter's baby on this expansion I still think the mini-land is happening, therefore putting it by Toontown would make more sense.

 

[Captain Chaos]

Maybe instead of leveling Toontown completely, they should focus on expanding it. It's generally gender-neutral to begin with and everyone knows and loves the lassic Disney characters. Expanding upon toontown helps balance the girlyness of Fantasy Forest AND it would give Disney someplace to put American Dumbo within the Magic Kingdom that won't ruin the apparent Europeaness of Fantasyland. Could Dumbo work better in a renewed Toontown than he would in Fantasy Forest? Dumbo's been in Fantasyland so long (and in every Magic Kingdom-style park globally), that I don't think anyone is going to walk through Fantasyland and find him out of place there. But if he really is out of place thre, why not Toontown? Could the circus make more sense visiting Mickey and pals?

First, I understand what you are saying about the outskirts of the forest... And while I don't agree, I see what you are saying... I still think it is a stretch, but, if they did something like that, I have faith in WDI to make it fit...

As for the above, with Toontown, agh, it has to go.. However, I can see them keeping Toontown now.. I don't know why, but I can see that... And then put Dumbo south of Toontown, making it one giant circus on the outskirts of a forest/town... But, if they are going to keep Toontown, they really need to fix it... I think the version there is an eyesore...

I am still hoping Toontown goes...

 

[LoehnWolf]

I heard that cardboard was cut...you are just going to close your eyes now and the nearby CM is going to beep like R2 (if they have the scheduling money).

I also hear that Fantasyland is going to become more Fantasy and less on the Land part..Pixie Hollow is going to become less Pixie, more Hollow and due to budget contstraints Adventureland has become Land..with guests having to pay to upgrade to "mildly amusingland"

 

[Atomicmickey]

So, what appealed to me about the original plans was the overall sense of place. The theme of fantasy, being able to walk through the forest and see these elaborate fantasy chateaus. The addition of the water outside of Mermaid, the hills..more forced perspective scenery.

The fact that it all surrounded meet n' greets was not a big deal to me--what I was looking forward to was being able to walk around in a Fantasy Forest--straight out of animated legend.

The Castle Walls would help transition this land from our traditional Fantasyland.

I just think it would be a spectacular place to walk around in--the MK version of World Showcase.

So--I'm hoping that they retain the forest--and almost everything about it. All they'd need to do is change something into the Dwarves Mine Ride--or something a bit mysterious and thrilling--not too much, because this is for the younger set, primarily--but keep the overall enchantment--make a PLACE.

When I am in Africa, or Asia in the Animal Kingdom--I can almost imagine that I AM THERE. I wish for that same pervasive and detailed environment theming. The sense that you've been transported to another world. Frankly--this is what I'm hearing about Harry Potter land--that the fact that it is one new ride and two rethemed attractions is secondary to that feeling of being in Harry Potter's world--right down to the butterbeer.

I know that Disney can do this--and this is independent of what attractions are contained within. It's an opportunity to create a real LAND full of wonder and enchantment. It'll work.

So go ahead, change up an attraction or two, pull a princess or scale her back. But don't blow it on the theming. Don't blow it on the sense of place, and the opportunity to amaze and create wonder. That'll work for all ages.

Go for it, Disney. Adjust, tweak, swap, push, pull, move, reconfigure.

Just GO FOR IT. Please.

That's my plea.

 

[deWild]

Greenlight the a Florida version of Alice in Wonderland and I'll call it even!

 

[Captain Neo]

Honestly, the Fantasyland expansion sounded dumb from the start and I am shocked that there are even a few people here who were excited for the offerings. (The audiance at D23 cheered initially but once Rasolu got started talking about princess meet and greets the crowds went totally silent and there was some awkward laughing). Some elements (Little mermaid with themed queue, Dumbo area) were good but overall the project was very poor and looked like it was thrown together by the marketing department. It was souless, did not inspire, and does not appeal to all ages which violates the key principle of the Disney Parks. The Fantasyland Expansion could still work but they will need to add more real dark ride attractions and perhaps a fully fleshed out Wonderland to explore.

When you have competitors building Wizarding World of Harry Potter and Transformers and Disneyland in Califoria & Japan building world class attractions WDW can not simply offer meet & greets, a new restaurant and a cloned Disneyland ride and call it a day. It just does not work that way.

 

[Biff215]

So, what appealed to me about the original plans was the overall sense of place. The theme of fantasy, being able to walk through the forest and see these elaborate fantasy chateaus. The addition of the water outside of Mermaid, the hills..more forced perspective scenery.

The fact that it all surrounded meet n' greets was not a big deal to me--what I was looking forward to was being able to walk around in a Fantasy Forest--straight out of animated legend.

The Castle Walls would help transition this land from our traditional Fantasyland.

I just think it would be a spectacular place to walk around in--the MK version of World Showcase.

So--I'm hoping that they retain the forest--and almost everything about it. All they'd need to do is change something into the Dwarves Mine Ride--or something a bit mysterious and thrilling--not too much, because this is for the younger set, primarily--but keep the overall enchantment--make a PLACE.

When I am in Africa, or Asia in the Animal Kingdom--I can almost imagine that I AM THERE. I wish for that same pervasive and detailed environment theming. The sense that you've been transported to another world. Frankly--this is what I'm hearing about Harry Potter land--that the fact that it is one new ride and two rethemed attractions is secondary to that feeling of being in Harry Potter's world--right down to the butterbeer.

I know that Disney can do this--and this is independent of what attractions are contained within. It's an opportunity to create a real LAND full of wonder and enchantment. It'll work.

So go ahead, change up an attraction or two, pull a princess or scale her back. But don't blow it on the theming. Don't blow it on the sense of place, and the opportunity to amaze and create wonder. That'll work for all ages.

Go for it, Disney. Adjust, tweak, swap, push, pull, move, reconfigure.

Just GO FOR IT. Please.

That's my plea.

Well said! I'm with you 100%, and truly believe we will see at least most of what was to be included in Phase 1.

 

[HMF]

Here's some advice to TDO on what to do with the money that would be wasted on meet&greets. GIVE US THE DL FACADES IT'S BEEN ALMOST 30 YEARS.

 

[Captain Neo]

Here's some advice to TDO on what to do with the money that would be wasted on meet&greets. GIVE US THE DL FACADES IT'S BEEN ALMOST 30 YEARS.

Further proof of Disneyland's superiority

 

[HMF]

which is why they should all get fired...:fork:

amen!

 

[HMF]

what was it that changed TDA anyway?

His name was Matt Ouimet.

 

[hoke2007]

"The Team Disney Orlando executives were already leery of the overall price tag..."

SHOCKING!

TDO really makes me mad. If they could remove their heads from their rear ends just once and do something at WDW the right way I'd be happy. But with every new project comes waves of massive budget cuts that affect the final product. TDO stinks.