Al Lutz: Tom Staggs stepping back and reconsidering many aspects of FLE

[lazyboy97o]

I have no doubt I would love it but that is not the point. The only new ride and the roller coasters have height requirements thereby excluding small children. One repurposed family coaster and some interactive stuff are not enough. Have you taken note that even the FLE will have that too and then some. I submit that is not a coincidence.

And? You are the one that is saying that the Wizarding World of Harry Potter is "overblown" while hyping Fantasyland. If you had visited, you would quickly see that the height limits are not stopping even young kids from enjoying the village of Hogsmead.

One word: "Flexpass"

I assume you mean the Orlando Flex Ticket, which is nothing new and aimed at British tourists. It is a great Value for people looking to do something besides Disney, but is of no use to somebody stuck in a Disney vacation package. The addition of Legoland, if Merlin Entertainment decides to get on board, has not yet been announced. Even then, with its focus on the British, they have their own Legoland in Windsor and that will be a hurdle to overcome.

 

[jt04]

And? You are the one that is saying that the Wizarding World of Harry Potter is "overblown" while hyping Fantasyland. If you had visited, you would quickly see that the height limits are not stopping even young kids from enjoying the village of Hogsmead.

I was responding to a poster who made potter sound like it is better than Disneysea. I think FLE was crush Hogsmeade for the 10 and under croowd. Not so much for teens and up. But it isn't designed to.


I assume you mean the Orlando Flex Ticket, which is nothing new and aimed at British tourists. It is a great Value for people looking to do something besides Disney, but is of no use to somebody stuck in a Disney vacation package. The addition of Legoland, if Merlin Entertainment decides to get on board, has not yet been announced. Even then, with its focus on the British, they have their own Legoland in Windsor and that will be a hurdle to overcome.

I think you will see the parks outside Disney put together inclusive packages to compete with the mouse. Time will tell.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I think you will see the parks outside Disney put together inclusive packages to compete with the mouse. Time will tell.

The requires Blackstone, an investment company, to push its interests to work together, while sorting out how they also maintain their individual and brand management structures. For years these other attractions have all had to deal with Orlando being synonymous with Disney. In order to sell inclusive packages that cultural concept has to be destroyed or, at the least, significantly altered. At best they might get British and other European travelers, but they will either make it part of multiple lodgings or have means of transportation to accommodate their different style of vacationing.

 

[Mouse Detective]

Not to mention that much of what has enabled Disney to survive since 1923 was its ability to sell older material to the next generation. Theme parks must sell the old even more so than movie studios, as it is not cheap to keep tearing down everything and rebuilding.

Very true. Disney has made inroads into introducing newer generations to old characters via its cable channels but let's face it; it's been decades since Mickey Mouse, Donald Duck, Goofy and other core characters have had new material. Yet they endure. Harry Potter is into its 2nd generation of kids now. And LOTs of adults. There is no reason to believe, as Jt insinuates, that Harry Potter's popularity won't continue into the future!

Legoland has yet to be a big hit anywhere in the world. If Merlin Entertainment thought that Florida was going to be such a goldmine, then they would have built a park sooner. They are not even building their own park, they bought one that closed.

Legoland was a small scale player and popularity was very regional. That has changed with Merlin's involvement, not only with its investment directly into Legoland parks but with its investment into the other theme park chains! They were looking into land around Orlando a couple years ago but in the end the closed Cypress Gardens was felt to be the best option. The Splendid China land was too small.

Then there are Disney's vacation packages, designed to keep families on Disney's property. Families will have to rent a car and drive south for at least 45 minutes. You are the one telling us about how bad I-4 is between Orlando and Tampa, so why would families subject themselves to that?

Disney does have a lock on the package people stuck on-property. It will be much more difficult to get them to make the effort to go down to Legoland. But the 1-day car rental is an easy option and who knows what other options will ultimately surface. I-4 between Orlando and Tampa is no longer a bad road with its widening a couple years ago. And really, the route to Legoland only involves I-4 to US 27, just a few exits from Disney. I have a bigger issue with US 27 and the traffic lights on the route down.

I think you will see the parks outside Disney put together inclusive packages to compete with the mouse. Time will tell.

Since I think everything in the Pass is Merlin, I have little doubt this will come true. And it will include Legoland, for sure!

 

[TP2000]

I think you will see the parks outside Disney put together inclusive packages to compete with the mouse. Time will tell.

SoCal has the CityPass, which is popular. It bundles a 3 Day Park Hopper for Disneyland with a day at Universal Studios and Sea World and the San Diego Zoo. It's $269 and it knocks off about $110 off the price of purchasing those tickets separately.

Legoland California has struggled to keep it's annual attendance over the 1.5 Million figure, after over a decade of continual expansion and additions. The biggest hit they've had is adding the Sea Life Aquarium next door to it in '08, in addition to the waterpark and the time share condos.

But even with the 1.5+ Million attendance they've been getting each year lately, it's been a struggle for them. The park opened in 1999 with projections it would get 1.8 Million that first year and grow from there, but it didn't happen, and attendance actually fell from there through 2003. 11 years later they still haven't broken the 1.8 Million mark they thought they'd get out of the box back in '99. And this Legoland is literally right off the I-5 freeway, halfway between Disneyland and San Diego.

I can't imagine the Florida version of Legoland, which judging from their recent press releases and maps appears to have a small collection of starter rides and attractions upon opening in 2011, has anyone in TDO shaking in their boots.

The Miniland section is always worth a nice stroll, however. I'm sure the Florida version of Miniland will play up the old Cypress Gardens angle and be quite lovely.

 

[lazyboy97o]

I-4 between Orlando and Tampa is no longer a bad road with its widening a couple years ago. And really, the route to Legoland only involves I-4 to US 27, just a few exits from Disney. I have a bigger issue with US 27 and the traffic lights on the route down.

My comment about I-4 was not based on how bad the traffic actually is, but was responding to jt04s continuing claims of horrific traffic when discussing the high speed rail project.

Since I think everything in the Pass is Merlin, I have little doubt this will come true. And it will include Legoland, for sure!

They are now all Blackstone Group, which owns Merlin Entertainment, SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment and half of Universal Orlando. The Flex Ticket predates this situation and Blackstone is known for being more hands off then hands on.

 

[mickey2008.1]

JT, how does the FLE make MK a more kid friendly park than legoland. Its only one part of the park. If you say MK is not family oriented as it should be, then one addition is going to to crap.

 

[jt04]

The requires Blackstone, an investment company, to push its interests to work together, while sorting out how they also maintain their individual and brand management structures. For years these other attractions have all had to deal with Orlando being synonymous with Disney. In order to sell inclusive packages that cultural concept has to be destroyed or, at the least, significantly altered. At best they might get British and other European travelers, but they will either make it part of multiple lodgings or have means of transportation to accommodate their different style of vacationing.

Oh, I think it is quite possible transportation would be part of the deal. I think the day will come when you build your itenerrary before you leave home and then the Merlin people will provide the logistics. If not, there will be local companies that will step in and do so.

My comment about I-4 was not based on how bad the traffic actually is, but was responding to jt04s continuing claims of horrific traffic when discussing the high speed rail project.

I think I said it is a nightmare if there is a serious accident. Right now it generally is not bad. But in 5 or 10 years it will be gridlock for the most minor incident. Hence the necessity for HSR.


They are now all Blackstone Group, which owns Merlin Entertainment, SeaWorld Parks & Entertainment and half of Universal Orlando. The Flex Ticket predates this situation and Blackstone is known for being more hands off then hands on.

Orlando/Tampa creates real opportunities I'm sure they will be eager to take advantage of.

 

[jt04]

JT, how does the FLE make MK a more kid friendly park than legoland. Its only one part of the park. If you say MK is not family oriented as it should be, then one addition is going to to crap.

The FLE is only the first step. Disney knows about whatpossibilities may be pending and plans for such things as Legoland. That is why I think the FLE is pure genius. It addresses so many issues/concerns/needs of WDW and TWDC. But, as I said, it is only a first step in keeping the mouse #1 IMO. So, it makes the MK kid friendlier obviously. But further steps may be needed. I'm certain they already have an app for that.

 

[lazyboy97o]

Oh, I think it is quite possible transportation would be part of the deal. I think the day will come when you build your itenerrary before you leave home and then the Merlin people will provide the logistics. If not, there will be local companies that will step in and do so.

Once again, Merlin Entertainment is only in charge of Legoland Florida. They get no say in what happens with Universal Orlando, SeaWorld Orlando or Busch Gardens Tampa Bay. The most likely path of that happening will be all three management teams deciding to work together, not Blackstone pushing theme together. If Blackstone makes the three work together, they have to deal with their separation across the world, the existing brands, and any plans they may have to reduce their involvement, such as spinning off a company.

 

[BrerFrog]

Now that I think about it, it is pretty reasonable to say that the M&Gs will be built on this first phase. After all, land is already being moved and construction is on its way, therefore I assume they know what will be happening there. There is no time to make any major changes.

If change is indeed coming, it will happen for PH as it is part of the second phase of the expansion, for which ground has not been broken yet. That way they would have more time to tinker with the plans and work with new concepts.

 

[DisneyParksFan1]

Now that I think about it, it is pretty reasonable to say that the M&Gs will be built on this first phase. After all, land is already being moved and construction is on its way, therefore I assume they know what will be happening there. There is no time to make any major changes.

If change is indeed coming, it will happen for PH as it is part of the second phase of the expansion, for which ground has not been broken yet. That way they would have more time to tinker with the plans and work with new concepts.

Agreed!

 

[TP2000]

Now that I think about it, it is pretty reasonable to say that the M&Gs will be built on this first phase. After all, land is already being moved and construction is on its way, therefore I assume they know what will be happening there. There is no time to make any major changes.

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the M&G's were going to be canned outright, were they?

The gist I got from this thread and the recent Al Lutz article was that their overall budget was under scrutiny and possibly scaled back. I haven't heard anyone say that the M&G's would be cancelled and a grassy hill would be placed where the M&G's were supposed to go.

 

[Magenta Panther]

From today's article:



I'm beginning to wonder if this full-fledged FL expansion will ever fully materialize. I think some in TDO along with Tom are realizing that perhaps many aspects of the expansion are too focused. With the recent rumors swirling about a Frontierland expansion, I think the possibility of Little Mermaid and the B&B restaurant being the only FL additions that ever fully materialize is increasing.

I'm all for jettisoning Pixie Hollow. As a franchise, I suspect it's a bit of a dud. I really can't stand those Tinkerbell movies. The CGI is pedestrian, and Tink just doesn't look like Tink. And don't get me started on her actually talking...

As for the FLE getting scaled back...is Disney completely nuts? WWOHP is kicking Disney's butt and there's talk of "scaling back" the Fantasyland expansion??? Good lord...

 

[lazyboy97o]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the M&G's were going to be canned outright, were they?

The gist I got from this thread and the recent Al Lutz article was that their overall budget was under scrutiny and possibly scaled back. I haven't heard anyone say that the M&G's would be cancelled and a grassy hill would be placed where the M&G's were supposed to go.

I think people are hoping if they repeat it enough, somehow that will make it true.

 

[wm49rs]

I think people are hoping if they repeat it enough, somehow that will make it true.

That's pretty much the gist of it. Like the belief that this article by Lutz is 100% accurate reporting....:hammer:

 

[BrerFrog]

I don't think anyone was suggesting that the M&G's were going to be canned outright, were they?

The gist I got from this thread and the recent Al Lutz article was that their overall budget was under scrutiny and possibly scaled back. I haven't heard anyone say that the M&G's would be cancelled and a grassy hill would be placed where the M&G's were supposed to go.

I am pretty sure it was discussed on one of these 30-something pages, but I am too lazy to look for it.

 

[jt04]

I think people are hoping if they repeat it enough, somehow that will make it true.

100% exactly what they were doing. But I'm getting a kick watching them backpeddle now! :lol:

I'm all for jettisoning Pixie Hollow. As a franchise, I suspect it's a bit of a dud. I really can't stand those Tinkerbell movies. The CGI is pedestrian, and Tink just doesn't look like Tink. And don't get me started on her actually talking...

As for the FLE getting scaled back...is Disney completely nuts? WWOHP is kicking Disney's butt and there's talk of "scaling back" the Fantasyland expansion??? Good lord...

Um no. The Pixie franchises are very profitable. Perhaps you are not the intended audience.

As for potter, all ticket prices are going up except Uni's local resident ticket prices. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that if potter was hurting Disney they would be raising those prices too.

Spinning does not work on these forums.

 

[KevinPage]

Al Lutz taking at shot at WDW in comparison to his precious DL. What a shocker.

 

[bstiles]

Anybody else think phase 2 could become toystory playland?